What Is Truly Wrong With The Oilers?

[Soundwave]

Everyone knows what's wrong with those teams ... the Ference era Oilers had horrible rosters.

Pracitising harder was not going to make up for the fact that their D was a dumpster fire and their forward group was one line deep and their goaltending was crap.

Positive culture is a byproduct of years of a group being together and experiencing success together, which is impossible when you have a crap roster.

There is no team in the NHL that has been good year in, year out with a poor roster. It doesn't exist. You might have teams that get lucky for a year and then crash down back to earth, but that's about it.

 

[MaxR11]

Everyone knows what's wrong with those teams ... the Ference era Oilers had horrible rosters.

Pracitising harder was not going to make up for the fact that their D was a dumpster fire and their forward group was one line deep and their goaltending was crap.

understood that the roster needs upgrade but better culture helps contiually improve the team and will also help develop young prospects so that there IS that talent. most teams develop their talent.

quit s***ing on ference. i didn't like him as an oiler either but i know enough to know that he would know better than you or i. it's too ridiculous for yyou to think you know more than someone who's actually played on the team. what have you done to make you think you actually know more than ference. chel video games?

 

[Soundwave]

understood that the roster needs upgrade but better culture helps contiually improve the team and will also help develop young prospects so that there IS that talent. most teams develop their talent.

quit s***ing on ference. i didn't like him as an oiler either but i know enough to know that he would know better than you or i. it's too ridiculous for yyou to think you know more than someone who's actually played on the team. what have you done to make you think you actually know more than ference. chel video games?

And what exactly do you propose? Just snap your finger and say "change the culture?". It doesn't work like that.

Culture takes years to develop, it doesn't magically happen overnight because you want it to. It is the end product of having a well built, well coached roster for a long time, it's not the beginning, you have it ass backwards.

And everything is from the roster FIRST. Roster. FIRST. It is not "part of the equation" it is the bedrock of the equation, it is what must come first or you have nothing else.

You don't have that and you have nothing. There is no team in the NHL that's successful through multiple years without having a very good roster. And even the fact that LA and Chicago have fallen off proves that too ... they have the same leadership core as they did 5 years ago, the main difference is their players can't produce on the ice in the same way due to age wearing them down.

Apparently "culture" can't magically overcome decline in ability. You have a 2 time Cup champion culture that's 2nd last in the NHL in LA right now.

 

[McBeastMode]

Rieder is on pace to set an NHL record...

 

[MaxR11]

And what exactly do you propose? Just snap your finger and say "change the culture?". It doesn't work like that.

Culture takes years to develop, it doesn't magically happen overnight because you want it to. It is the end product of having a well built, well coached roster for a long time, it's not the beginning, you have it ass backwards.

And everything is from the roster FIRST. Roster. FIRST.

You don't have that and you have nothing. There is no team in the NHL that's successful through multiple years without having a very good roster. And even the fact that LA and Chicago have fallen off proves that too ... they have the same leadership core as they did 5 years ago, the main difference is their players can't produce on the ice in the same way due to age wearing them down.

Apparently "culture" can't magically overcome decline in ability. You have a 2 time Cup champion culture that's 2nd last in the NHL in LA right now.

true, culture can take time to change and acquire, that's why you start asap. change the way things are done up top (clearing obc or fundamental changes in values ideals and culture). identify the players that will fit and buy into the culture. oust those who won't. set the establish rules and standards and make sure everyone abides. a new start. quit rushing prospects and have them overripen and develop properly. that's the most realistic way now to get talent. might get lucky and dump salary and pick up a panarin or whatever but you'll need more.

noone is saying a roster upgrade is not sorely needed but you MUST have the proper foundation of a different set of rules and values that will set the stage to build this good culture.

lol, of course age catches up with you and things start to go awry. noone is saying culture will solve EVERYTHING.... just saying you need there to be those proper values, habits, ideals etc (culture) as a foundation to allow talent to fluorish and gel as a cohesive unit. just the same, talent won't solve everything. you need a good culture to get that talent to come together properly. to ignore culture is a vital part of the equation is foolish.

 

[onetweasy]

Andrew Ference is another great example of how this org puts incompetent people in key positions in this org, resulting in failure and poor culture.

The Oilers were a team that was struggling to find success due to not having enough good players and the management team's answer was to bring in a past-his-prime bottom pairing D man and anoint him captain before he had even played a game. Sheer incompetence.

But could he ever ride a bike!

 

[Soundwave]

true, culture can take time to change and acquire, that's why you start asap. change the way things are done up top (clearing obc or fundamental changes in values ideals and culture). identify the players that will fit and buy into the culture. oust those who won't. set the establish rules and standards and make sure everyone abides. a new start. quit rushing prospects and have them overripen and develop properly. that's the most realistic way now to get talent. might get lucky and dump salary and pick up a panarin or whatever but you'll need more.

noone is saying a roster upgrade is not sorely needed but you MUST have the proper foundation of a different set of rules and values that will set the stage to build this good culture.

lol, of course age catches up with you and things start to go awry. noone is saying culture will solve EVERYTHING.... just saying you need there to be those proper values, habits, ideals etc (culture) as a foundation to allow talent to fluorish and gel as a cohesive unit. just the same, talent won't solve everything. you need a good culture to get that talent to come together properly. to ignore culture is a vital part of the equation is foolish.

Culture takes years of a GOOD ROSTER being together and experiencing ups and downs together. It is the end byproduct of having a great roster for many years. You don't just proclaim "ok, we're changing culture" and think that's going to happen any time soon.

Of course management needs to be flushed out, that's been talked to death.

A well built roster will solve about 95% of the issue here, the management issue is relevant there because a stupid management team cannot build a good roster to begin with. And that has been the problem with the Oilers for 13 years.

They don't ever get to the "good roster" stage of the game from which everything else comes from. Your precious culture will never develop without a great roster first. ROSTER. FIRST. Lets try this again. ROSTER. FIRST.

Until they have that, they got nothing. Bobby Blowhard can go on a stage and talk about culture all he wants, until the roster is legit and you can look at it and say "yeah they're about as good as Toronto or Winnipeg", they ain't doing shit.

 

[Little Fury]

And what exactly do you propose? Just snap your finger and say "change the culture?". It doesn't work like that.

Culture takes years to develop, it doesn't magically happen overnight because you want it to. It is the end product of having a well built, well coached roster for a long time, it's not the beginning, you have it ass backwards.

And everything is from the roster FIRST. Roster. FIRST. It is not "part of the equation" it is the bedrock of the equation, it is what must come first.

True, but the only way to build a roster is to have competent people in charge who can actually identify talent, draft and develop blah blah blah.

Insofar as the Oilers have a culture problem it's that they have a culture of rewarding failure and valuing the wrong things.

 

[Little Fury]

But could he ever ride a bike!

Thing he seems like a good dude so I kinda feel bad about slagging him, but he really sucked as a player here and should probably keep his trap shut.

 

[Soundwave]

True, but the only way to build a roster is to have competent people in charge who can actually identify talent, draft and develop blah blah blah.

Insofar as the Oilers have a culture problem it's that they have a culture of rewarding failure and valuing the wrong things.

That's a management issue. It's not a "culture issue" with the players/roster though (as in the players are bad/lazy people), that's a very different distinction.

The management is crap. Of course it is. I've been yelling that we would be in this situation from last summer because of the management's inability to ever win a trade, signing, or draft well. Maybe people now can understand why I was so angry over the summer, because this is exactly where I didn't want the team to end up.

 

[MaxR11]

Culture takes years of a GOOD ROSTER being together and experiencing ups and downs together. It is the end byproduct of having a great roster for many years. You don't just proclaim "ok, we're changing culture" and think that's going to happen any time soon.

Of course management needs to be flushed out, that's been talked to death.

A well built roster will solve about 95% of the issue here, the management issue is relevant there because a stupid management team cannot build a good roster to begin with. And that has been the problem with the Oilers for 13 years.

They don't ever get to the "good roster" stage of the game from which everything else comes from. Your precious culture will never develop without a great roster first. ROSTER. FIRST. Lets try this again. ROSTER. FIRST.

Until they have that, they got nothing. Bobby Blowhard can go on a stage and talk about culture all he wants, until the roster is legit and you can look at it and say "yeah they're about as good as Toronto or Winnipeg", they ain't doing ****.

nah dude, you start with culture. how do you propose this team will EVER get out of this mess then? teams are sure as s*** not gifting us talented players. we'll need a good culture to develop players.

problem is you're still stuck in this mindset that culutr is purely in the dressing room. WRONG. it's an overall thing in the organization that will affect the way things are done and ultimately affect development and play and room culture over time. talent is part of the equation you always look to upgrade properly. listen to my words... talent IS important. but culture is just as if not more important.

 

[Soundwave]

nah dude, you start with culture. how do you propose this team will EVER get out of this mess then? teams are sure as s*** not gifting us talented players. we'll need a good culture to develop players.

problem is you're still stuck in this mindset that culutr is purely in the dressing room. WRONG. it's an overall thing in the organization that will affect the way things are done and ultimately affect development and play and room culture over time. talent is part of the equation you always look to upgrade properly. listen to my words... talent IS important. but culture is just as if not more important.

How do you "start with culture". Trade more talented players for lower talents, but higher "culture" players like Lucic and Larsson? How's that working out for the Oilers? Leafs sure gave a fart about our culture and walked all over us with talent.

Culture comes last and is only established through a *good* roster being together for many years. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you don't snap your finger.

Talent/roster quality IS EVERYTHING. You don't have that and you have nothing.

Name the NHL team that has had sub-par talent for multiple years and that wins on culture year-in, year-out. You can't answer this question. Why? Because this team doesn't exist. Not only does it not exist in the NHL, it doesn't exist in the NBA, NFL, or MLB either.

 

[onetweasy]

Thing he seems like a good dude so I kinda feel bad about slagging him, but he really sucked as a player here and should probably keep his trap shut.

Yeah he is probably a solid dude but his "Oiler" story mimic's so many others that have came through the Org - a player that is put into a position to fail. Koskinen will be the next one......

 

[MaxR11]

How do you "start with culture". Trade more talented players for lower talents like Lucic and Larsson. How's that working out for the Oilers.

Culture comes last and is only established through a good roster being together for many years. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but you don't snap your finger.

Talent/roster quality IS EVERYTHING. You don't have that and you have nothing.

Name the NHL team that has had sub-par talent for multiple years and that wins on culture year-in, year-out. You can't answer this question. Why? Because this team doesn't exist. Not only does it not exist in the NHL, it doesn't exist in the NBA, NFL, or MLB either.

lol dude, youre STILL stuck thinking culture is just about players and the room. it is NOT JUST that. there is a culture in the overall organization that will affect everythhing. player development and the room culture eventually. get it out of your mind that culture is just in the dressing room... then MAYBE you'll get it.

 

[Soundwave]

lol dude, youre STILL stuck thinking culture is just about players and the room. it is NOT JUST that. there is a culture in the overall organization that will affect everythhing. player development and the room culture eventually. get it out of your mind that culture is just in the dressing room... then MAYBE you'll get it.

Answer the question. Which team in the NHL is successful year in, year out without having one of the more talented rosters in the league?

I can't think of any in the NBA, NFL, or MLB either.

It must be a massive coincidence that 95% of the teams that are good happen to also on paper generally have the highest talent.

Even St. Louis is proving the cream always rises to the top, they're easily going to make the playoffs after dogging it for half a year, that roster was simply too good to miss.

 

[iCanada]

Answer the question. Which team in the NHL is successful year in, year out without having one of the more talented rosters in the league?

I can't think of any in the NBA, NFL, or MLB either.

It must be a massive coincidence that 95% of the teams that are good happen to also on paper generally have the highest talent.

Even St. Louis is proving the cream always rises to the top, they're easily going to make the playoffs after dogging it for half a year, that roster was simply too good to miss.

No no, you don't understand. Their culture just sagged for a couple months.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Our biggest issue of all the things wrong with the team is development. How many players have looked amazing in junior only to go to the AHL and hit a wall? We need to concentrate solely on development of our draft picks for the next couple years. If this means finding a whole new development staff then so be it. We will not get better until we develop some late rounders period.

 

[Little Fury]

That's a management issue. It's not a "culture issue" with the players/roster though (as in the players are bad/lazy people), that's a very different distinction.

I agree and there's a tendency by some to conflate the two. Which i suppose is part of the appeal of the "it's the culture" argument, you can make it mean whatever you want.

 

[Soundwave]

I agree and there's a tendency by some to conflate the two. Which i suppose is part of the appeal of the "it's the culture" argument, you can make it mean whatever you want.

Yup that's the other lazy part of the argument, you can use it to define whatever the heck you want. One minute it means Taylor Hall, a month ago it was "lets blame Draisaitl for a lazy back check", which conveniently shut up when he went on a scoring tear. Now it's finally focused on management.

Very convenient how it shifts and changes.

 

[Little Fury]

Yup that's the other lazy part of the argument, you can use it to define whatever the heck you want. One minute it means Taylor Hall, a month ago it was "lets blame Draisaitl", which conveniently shut up when he went on a scoring tear. Now it's finally focused on management.

Very convenient how it shifts and changes.

The anti-McDavid whisper campaign has already started, one more season of this crap and it'll be out in force.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Yeah D points tend to be a product of the scoring ability of the forwards. That's why the Leafs' D have a combined 149 points, but just 31 goals. Hell, the Sharks' entire D with Burns and Karlsson has as many goals as that of the Oilers, but they have 181 points because they actually have scoring depth up front. Obviously that's a more talented bunch overall, but it does demonstrate how

Fix the forwards and the D's point totals will increase.



Good thing we don't have an AHL D, then.

Is it a great D? Of course not. It's a below average bunch that could stand to add one more bona fide top 4 guy. Is it the biggest problem? Not by a longshot.

When Klefbom and Sekera were out the Oilers were running 3 AHL dmen.

Right now they have one in the lineup.They are one injury away from an AHL third pairing.

 

[Dan403]

I'm honestly not trying to troll you guys here,

But the Problem is that the Fans keep buying tickets and merchandise.

You have to make Katz WANT to change. And the ONLY way to do that is with your wallets.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm honestly not trying to troll you guys here,

But the Problem is that the Fans keep buying tickets and merchandise.

You have to make Katz WANT to change. And the ONLY way to do that is with your wallets.

Fact is any Canadian city with McDavid would be sold out. It's not even like they're 18 years removed from a playoff berth either, they're just two years removed from one, the Flames have missed the playoffs 2/3 years going into this one, did people just stop going to NHL games?

It's Canada, people aren't just going to stop going to NHL games unless you are icing a roster that has nothing worth watching on it.

Katz has pressure to improve the team no matter what because no.97. They absolutely are under pressure to get the next hire right.

 

[joestevens29]

Fact is any Canadian city with McDavid would be sold out. It's not even like they're 18 years removed from a playoff berth either, they're just two years removed from one, the Flames have missed the playoffs 2/3 years going into this one, did people just stop going to NHL games?

It's Canada, people aren't just going to stop going to NHL games unless you are icing a roster that has nothing worth watching on it.

Katz has pressure to improve the team no matter what because no.97. They absolutely are under pressure to get the next hire right.

People did that here for quite awhile too

 

[sepHF]

I'm honestly not trying to troll you guys here,

But the Problem is that the Fans keep buying tickets and merchandise.

You have to make Katz WANT to change. And the ONLY way to do that is with your wallets.

I haven't spent a penny on the Oilers since 2015. It's not working