What is Malkin missing from being the best player of his generation?

[Strakanator]

If Malkin was the first line center, played with the team’s best wingers, and got the left side shooting circle on the power-play all the time, he would be the highest scoring forward of his generation.

He is the biggest reason the penguins won 3 cups. The coach often gives him 2 garbage players and says “go Geno”. The bias is unreal. Malkin is approaching the most underrated player of all time.

 

[binop7]

Malkin's last full 82 game regular season is from decade ago. And he only has 2 of those. Might have something do with that. Raw talent wise, I think he is the best player of his generation. Unfortunately for him, staying healthy to use that raw talent is equally important in this conversation.

I disagree on the raw talent comment. As an example I don't think he's a better skater than ovi or Sid. He has a lot of talent but he isn't more talented than those two.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

If Malkin was the first line center, played with the team’s best wingers, and got the left side shooting circle on the power-play all the time, he would be the highest scoring forward of his generation.

He is the biggest reason the penguins won 3 cups. The coach often gives him 2 garbage players and says “go Geno”. The bias is unreal. Malkin is approaching the most underrated player of all time.

If Malkin was better than Crosby then he'd be the 1st line C. Unless you think pens coaches are all "bias" and for some reason don't want to give the team the best chance to win. He also gets ample PP time so I don't get that comment.

No he isn't, ask pens fans. He was the best player in 09, 5th at best in 16, probably 2nd in 17. The coach also gives him the easier matchups to allow him to put up his pts, while Crosby does the heavy lifting. And Malkin has had way more time than Crosby did with Kessel.

 

[GreatGonzo]

He wasn't good enough. Malkin has had his healthy seasons, what happened in those 5 seasons? 3 of them OV was clearly better, 1x Malkin was clearly better, 1x Malkin was slightly better. Crosby has 5 PPG wins, OV has 3, Malkin only has 1. That has nothing to do with injuries, plain and simple he wasn't good enough.

I never said Ovi or Crosby weren’t better other seasons, I’m saying that injuries costed him more high end seasons, seasons where he very well could have been better than Ovechkin and at times Crosby. not that he wasn’t good enough.

Also, PEAK Malkin can easily be argued as more dominant than Ovi and Crosby.

 

[GreatGonzo]

If Malkin was better than Crosby then he'd be the 1st line C. Unless you think pens coaches are all "bias" and for some reason don't want to give the team the best chance to win. He also gets ample PP time so I don't get that comment.

No he isn't, ask pens fans. He was the best player in 09, 5th at best in 16, probably 2nd in 17. The coach also gives him the easier matchups to allow him to put up his pts, while Crosby does the heavy lifting. And Malkin has had way more time than Crosby did with Kessel.

Malkins 2008 and especially 2012 season thrashed all that talk about him having the easy minutes to rack is points. He’s fully capable of being a number one center, Crosby being the number one center does say that he’s better, but they are still very close in terms of impact and talent.

Also, Crosby played with Kessel at first but they didn’t mesh well, he then played with Malkin. It’s all about chemistry, to use that against Malkin is idiotic.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Malkins 2008 and especially 2012 season thrashed all that talk about him having the easy minutes to rack is points. He’s fully capable of being a number one center, Crosby being the number one center does say that he’s better, but they are still very close in terms of impact and talent.

Also, Crosby played with Kessel at first but they didn’t mesh well, he then played with Malkin. It’s all about chemistry, to use that against Malkin is idiotic.

I didn't say Malkin only gets his pts because of his matchups, but it is a factor. Even in 11/12 his PPG was higher with Crosby in the lineup. But my point was in response to the poster saying that Malkin would have more pts if he was the pens 1C. He would be the 1C if he was better than Crosby. He's not and we both agree on that so whatever lol.

I know that, but that's not the point. The poster said Malkin gets the "garbage players" while Crosby gets the "best wingers". That's obviously not true which is why I brought up Kessel.

 

[kmart]

malkin is missing a c on his chest and a team where he is the #1 guy. that is on him, he chooses to play as a support player and he will be treated like one, he eliminated his own legacy.

 

[daver]

malkin is missing a c on his chest and a team where he is the #1 guy. that is on him, he chooses to play as a support player and he will be treated like one, he eliminated his own legacy.

What a bunch of poor excuses for a player who supposedly did not meet his potential. You are naive to think that Malkin would not have gotten the #1C position if any of the Pens' four coaches thought he would have done a better job than Crosby.

His proneness to injuries hurt his legacy.

 

[daver]

If Malkin was the first line center, played with the team’s best wingers, and got the left side shooting circle on the power-play all the time, he would be the highest scoring forward of his generation.

He is the biggest reason the penguins won 3 cups. The coach often gives him 2 garbage players and says “go Geno”. The bias is unreal. Malkin is approaching the most underrated player of all time.

Uhhhh..... you know that Malkin has played with the Pens best winger, whoever that may be, a lot more than Crosby has over the past 8 or 9 years right?

He is not good enough defensively to play the #1C. Instead he has gotten the offensive role while facing easier matchups. If he was as good as you say, there should have been nothing holding him back from being the highest scoring forward.

His two most notable performances came under different circumstances -

2009 playoffs - #2C with crappy linemates

2011/12 - #1C with the two best wingers

His career PPG speaks for itself. He is argubly the 2nd best per game performer of his era.

 

[NoMessi]

I think Malkin is still a fantastic player, but "best in his generation"?
Not happening. Not with the players that are in his generation.

It's not necessarily a bad thing.

That could be like, years down the road, somebody asking "What is Eichel missing to be the BEST player of his generation?"
The answer would be, "Not be in the same generation as McDavid"

Anyways, as good as Malkin is, I think one of the things that work against him is overall smarts.
Not saying he is dumb, but he does let his emotions get the better of him, teams know this, they bait him, and 8, 9 times out of 10, he bites, goes off, gets put into the box and costs his team a goal.

Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, already mentioned, are a bit smarter when it comes to "taking bait" teams put in front of them.
Not saying they don't EVER lose their cool, but for the most part, they pick their spots.
Malkin, on the other hand, always seems to be a ticking time bomb waiting to go off if he is agitated enough.....and we ALL KNOW, star players are targets for the agitators. Goes with the territory.

This was the biggest BS ive read on this website, and I read most of what Daver write so thats saying something.

We have been talking about angry Malkin being a monster for years, and you come up with this shit.

 

[NoMessi]

Uhhhh..... you know that Malkin has played with the Pens best winger, whoever that may be, a lot more than Crosby has over the past 8 or 9 years right?

He is not good enough defensively to play the #1C. Instead he has gotten the offensive role while facing easier matchups. If he was as good as you say, there should have been nothing holding him back from being the highest scoring forward.

His two most notable performances came under different circumstances -

2009 playoffs - #2C with crappy linemates

2011/12 - #1C with the two best wingers

His career PPG speaks for itself. He is argubly the 2nd best per game performer of his era.

Past couple of years Crosby have played with Guentzel who has scored the most p/60 while playing with Malkin. Just because Kessel is(/was?) a better player doesnt mean hes the preferable winger on the team. Guentzel got glued with Crosby when he got going. Same goes for Letang, hes glued to Crosby and Johnson is glued to Malkin. Although this changed before injury in january.

Also, Kunitz was the most preferable linemate for a couple of years, but only got to play with Malkin when he lost his game*. He ofc made a comeback with Crosby once he had his last hot streak in the ECF in 2017. It took only 1,5 game of good play to get glued to Crosby again.

Yes, I do agree that Neal was the most preferable Winger when he was here, but outside of him - Malkin has never gotten the most preferable linemate. (remember that Kessel was tried with Crosby first, and then got passed off to Malkin)

*= Apart from 2012 when Crosby was out with injury ofc. Look how that turned out.

 

[daver]

This was the biggest BS ive read on this website, and I read most of what Daver write so thats saying something.

Apparently you don't check your own work with your riveting p/60 arguments.

 

[daver]

Past couple of years Crosby have played with Guentzel who has scored the most p/60 while playing with Malkin. Just because Kessel is(/was?) a better player doesnt mean hes the preferable winger on the team. Guentzel got glued with Crosby when he got going. Same goes for Letang, hes glued to Crosby and Johnson is glued to Malkin. Although this changed before injury in january.

Also, Kunitz was the most preferable linemate for a couple of years, but only got to play with Malkin when he lost his game. He ofc made a comeback with Crosby once he had his last hot streak in the ECF in 2017. It took only 1,5 game of good play to get glued to Crosby again.

Yes, I do agree that Neal was the most preferable Winger when he was here, but outside of him - Malkin has never gotten the most preferable linemate. (remember that Kessel was tried with Crosby first, and then got passed off to Malkin)

You are all over the map as usual.

Malkin has had every opportunity to prove his worth offensively. His numbers speak for themselves. No amount of excuses will change this.

He has every opportunity to show his true worth on Team Russia out of the apparent debilitating shadow of Crosby. How has that worked out?

One could easily argue that he has flourished by being able to defer the spotlight and media attention to Crosby. Crosby probably deserves a bunch of credit for making sure Malkin did not feel he wasn't being appreciated.

 

[NoMessi]

I didn't say Malkin only gets his pts because of his matchups, but it is a factor. Even in 11/12 his PPG was higher with Crosby in the lineup. But my point was in response to the poster saying that Malkin would have more pts if he was the pens 1C. He would be the 1C if he was better than Crosby. He's not and we both agree on that so whatever lol.

I know that, but that's not the point. The poster said Malkin gets the "garbage players" while Crosby gets the "best wingers". That's obviously not true which is why I brought up Kessel.

And that you actually believe this shows that you dont follow Penguins close enough. Look post above.

Guetzel was tested with Malkin, since his pedigree was thought of less. As soon as he showed he was a really good player, he got moved to Crosby even though his production regressed.

Kessel was the other way around, because of pedigree. He started with Crosby and didnt mesh and then got put together with Malkin.

Kunitz was traded for and got to play with Crosby for his entire prime. Once he regressed he got put on Malkins wing. All it took was a good game and a half in ECF 2017 to get put back on Crosbys wing. He was back on Malkins wing as soon as he cooled off.

Hossa played with Crosby.

 

[daver]

And that you actually believe this shows that you dont follow Penguins close enough. Look post above.

Guetzel was tested with Malkin, since his pedigree was thought of less. As soon as he showed he was a really good player, he got moved to Crosby even though his production regressed.

Kessel was the other way around, because of pedigree. He started with Crosby and didnt mesh and then got put together with Malkin.

Kunitz was traded for and got to play with Crosby for his entire prime. Once he regressed he got put on Malkins wing. All it took was a good game and a half in ECF 2017 to get put back on Crosbys wing. He was back on Malkins wing as soon as he cooled off.

Hossa played with Crosby.

Maybe if Malkin could have proven he was a better #1C than Crosby by being better defensively and on faceoffs, then he would have gotten better talent, if that can actually be argued here.

Even if it can be argued, Malkin taking on easier matchups and given more of an offensive role than Crosby should eliminate this narrative if not push it towards being a significant advantage for Malkin.

There is a reason that the gap between the two players in the HOH Top 100 players is quite large; the recognition that Crosby faced the other team's #1 lines and best defensive pairings the vast majority of the time.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

take a look at this season. Stellar start followed by months of being way below his average form. So no

That’s called hot streaks and cold streaks sir. Every player has them in the NHL.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I didn't say Malkin only gets his pts because of his matchups, but it is a factor. Even in 11/12 his PPG was higher with Crosby in the lineup. But my point was in response to the poster saying that Malkin would have more pts if he was the pens 1C. He would be the 1C if he was better than Crosby. He's not and we both agree on that so whatever lol.

I know that, but that's not the point. The poster said Malkin gets the "garbage players" while Crosby gets the "best wingers". That's obviously not true which is why I brought up Kessel.

You do realize that Malkin has a higher PPG when Crosby is out of the lineup right?

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

This was the biggest BS ive read on this website, and I read most of what Daver write so thats saying something.

We have been talking about angry Malkin being a monster for years, and you come up with this ****.

(Shrugs)

I don't know what else to tell you, except maybe get a hobby.
Perhaps sports message boards aren't for you.

You seem angrier than Malkin.
Calm down, have a ju ju bean or something.

 

[txpd]

I never said Ovi or Crosby weren’t better other seasons, I’m saying that injuries costed him more high end seasons, seasons where he very well could have been better than Ovechkin and at times Crosby. not that he wasn’t good enough.

Also, PEAK Malkin can easily be argued as more dominant than Ovi and Crosby.

Durability counts. At the end you are ranked all time by the number of goals and the number of points. Its why Gretzky is ranked above Lemeiux and why Willie Mays is ranked above Mickey Mantle. Points goals, Home Runs, hits per game don't count. It only suggests a player could have been more.

Was Gale Sayers a better running back than Walker Peyton. On a given day maybe but Peyton is the greater player.

 

[BonAppleTea]

I never said Ovi or Crosby weren’t better other seasons, I’m saying that injuries costed him more high end seasons, seasons where he very well could have been better than Ovechkin and at times Crosby. not that he wasn’t good enough.

Also, PEAK Malkin can easily be argued as more dominant than Ovi and Crosby.

I think peak Crosby and Ovie was better than peak Malkin, Ovie for certain imo. And Peak Malkin was a shorter period of time as well

 

[kladorf2005]

So you mention Crosby having to deal with injuries while ignoring that The reason why Malkin has only 4 top 10 finishes is because of injuries? Might want to add that context....he’s second in PPG with 9 top 10 finishes, 7 of them within the top 5. Injuries definitely robbed Malkin of more top end seasons. It’s hardly him not being good enough. Malkins injuries have plagued him from being in scoring races plenty of times. That’s what causes the inconsistencies.

Yes, he has 9 finishes in the top 10 in PPG. But look at Crosby and Ovechkin. Crosby finished top 4 in 11 straight years, including 1st in 5 straight years. Ovechkin finished 1st in 3 straight years. From 2007 to 2015, only people named Crosby and Ovechkin finished 1st. Malkin has never finished 1st in PPG.

Year	Sid	Ovi	Geno
2006	6	5	n/a
2007	1	16	19
2008	2	1	3
2009	3	1	2
2010	4	1	8
2011	1	9	37
2012	1	38	2
2013	1	5	14
2014	1	11	2
2015	1	8	7
2016	4	20	5
2017	2	29	4
2018	13	15	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I'm not saying Malkin is bad by any means. He's really good, and definitely a joke he was left off the top 100 list. But I don't see an argument for best of his generation.

 

[Rebels57]

Hes an unlikeable asshole for starters.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Malkin is not consistent enough. He disappears for too many games for my liking. Injuries have also become an issue...He’s also makes really dumb plays that Geno nation describe as “high risk”.

Lately, he has had trouble adapting to team’s neutral zone pressure. He doesn’t seem to want to alter his game in anyway. He’s no longer an even strength threat to score.

He takes so many bad penalties and turnovers he tweeters on being lazy. Seems to be bored with the regular season.

Great player but he’s always been insulated playing behind Crosby. He’s plays better when Sid is out which begs the question, why doesn’t he always play that way?

When’s he’s on and engaged he’s as dominant as Mario in his prime. But he’s like an expensive sports car that’s always in the shop.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Inspired by illpucks thread on Kane where it is consensus that Kane will never be the best of his generation. However Malkin is interesting because he is on the level of Crosby and OV and is part of the "Big 3" because, he has the accolades,

No he doesn't. Ovechkin has won like 16 or 17 major awards. Malkin has like 6. Crosby 11 or so.

 

[Midnight Judges]

One of the worst cliches perpetuated on these boards and in the general hockey worlds is that Malkin is "better than Crosby when he cares/wants to" or "when he's on his game"

Malkin's best peak season (2012) is substantially better than any season Crosby has had.