Speculation: What is Dorion's Plan for the Senators?

[topshelf15]

Hard to have a plan ,when you dont know if your going to have a job be years end....I still believe that he isnt as bad as he is being painted out to be...

 

[GrantLemons]

His plan is to do whatever Eugene tells him to do. Which I'm sure right now includes no long term deals with heavy signing bonuses (which is likely what EK/Stone are asking for).

Hard to have a plan when the side of the bed your CEO wakes up on decides his mood. I worked for a CEO like that, and he would come to a meeting one day all rainbows and amenable to everything, and the next he'd be reneging on things he'd said the previous day and being totally unreasonable. It was extremely toxic, and we accomplished very little when he was involved in the decision making.

This is exactly how I imagine EM is, and I can only imagine how brutal it is to work for the guy. PD is not a great GM, but I'm sure he'd love to be able to sign his guys, but simply can't.

 

[scallionjj11]

It really comes down to if and when Stone, Karlsson and Duchene sign new deals.

I think two options really happen here.

1) The team shows some positive signs and an upward trend out of the basement of the NHL and then hopefully at least 2 out of the 3 mentioned decide to sign here.

2) The team continues to be a dumpster fire and we might end up selling off all 3 and hopefully for as many 1 round picks next year as possible.

 

[topshelf15]

It really comes down to if and when Stone, Karlsson and Duchene sign new deals.

I think two options really happen here.

1) The team shows some positive signs and an upward trend out of the basement of the NHL and then hopefully at least 2 out of the 3 mentioned decide to sign here.

2) The team continues to be a dumpster fire and we might end up selling off all 3 and hopefully for as many 1 round picks next year as possible.

We need our kids to step up big time or we are sunk....

 

[Cosmix]

Hard to have a plan ,when you dont know if your going to have a job be years end....I still believe that he isnt as bad as he is being painted out to be...

I don’t put all the blame on Dorion because Melnyk and his budget is a large part of the problem; however Dorion is responsible for the hockey part, determining who to trade away/obtain.

I am certain that Melnyk did not direct Dorion to obtain Pyatt, Burrows, Brassard, Thompson or Oduya! Those trades are on Dorion!

Dorion was part of the management team that gave us Michalek, Greening and Cowan, which turned into Phaneuf, and then Gaborik.

It is time for a GM change.

 

[topshelf15]

I don’t put all the blame on Dorion because Melnyk and his budget is a large part of the problem; however Dorion is responsible for the hockey part, determining who to trade away/obtain.

I am certain that Melnyk did not direct Dorion to obtain Pyatt, Burrows, Brassard, Thompson or Oduya! Those trades are on Dorion!

Dorion was part of the management team that gave us Michalek, Greening and Cowan, which turned into Phaneuf, and then Gaborik.

It is time for a GM change.

Money in for money out,is far far more responsible ,you cant win a damn trade when you always have to take equal dollars or less

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Hard to have a plan ,when you dont know if your going to have a job be years end....I still believe that he isnt as bad as he is being painted out to be...

Just signed a three year contract...... and EM is not going to fire one GM, pay him for three years, and hire another one, and pay him too.

It's all to easy to dump on the GM, as he is never going to satisfy enough of the fan base, enough of the time. Half will like a trade, the other will hate it, half will like a draft selection, the other half will not.

It's a no win situation, in terms of pleasing the fan base, which is not really his goal at the end of the day.

 

[bert]

We need our kids to step up big time or we are sunk....

Surefire way to blow it, not only this season but for the future too.

 

[branch]

Just signed a three year contract...... and EM is not going to fire one GM, pay him for three years, and hire another one, and pay him too.

It's all to easy to dump on the GM, as he is never going to satisfy enough of the fan base, enough of the time. Half will like a trade, the other will hate it, half will like a draft selection, the other half will not.

It's a no win situation, in terms of pleasing the fan base, which is not really his goal at the end of the day.

Don't take the bait here people

 

[bert]

Just signed a three year contract...... and EM is not going to fire one GM, pay him for three years, and hire another one, and pay him too.

It's all to easy to dump on the GM, as he is never going to satisfy enough of the fan base, enough of the time. Half will like a trade, the other will hate it, half will like a draft selection, the other half will not.

It's a no win situation, in terms of pleasing the fan base, which is not really his goal at the end of the day.

You're right about EM refusing to pay people. He did that with Dorion to begin with, he makes the same amount as a head scout, so if we had a competent owner that was committed it would be very easy to replace him from a $$$ perspective. Alas we dont have that and were stuck with the worst and least experienced GM in the NHL.

Absolutely ridiculous portion bolded. People are happy when the GM does a good job, ie wins and maximizes assets while putting the organization in the best situation possible for now and the future. He has done neither, now we all agree that his situation to be successful is VERY difficult however he has done very poorly even with these conditions. He has showed no ability to negotiate with other GM's as he keeps getting ripped off.

 

[SensFanInBoston]

The Plan vs a potential work stoppage in 2020 or 2022

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-players-planning-lockout-signing-bonuses/

The precedent is set for contracts to include signing bonuses to protect against work stoppages. I could see Melnyk really balking at these high bonuses in years where there is reduced income. IMO this is the major stumbling block, as suggested by Stevenson on the Karlsson deal. This will be applicable to Stone and Duchene and maybe to a lesser extent Dzingel as well.. their agents will think they are not doing there jobs unless they protect the players income in the event of a lockout. These guys will all likely be traded as a result... A further one year deal walks them into a potential zero , if there is a work stoppage in 2020.

2020-2021 season is driving all of this. How much $ is ownership prepared to loose? Player bonuses, internal staff salaries, etc will add up. All big 3 contracts will want a large % of their salaries in bonus (for at least the 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 season). Even if we are optimistic, I think ~$18 million in just player bonus would be for the 2020-2021 season. Even if the Sens make a profit of $5 million, a full lockout season wipes out 3+ years of profits.

So, I think the plan is to have the big 3 play with the motivation of UFA contracts and try to sell them off for quality picks/prospects during the season. They will probably try to sign Stone if he is playing well and has no injuries. If not, I can see him shipped off with EK for a stud prospect and high picks in the next 2 drafts. Dorian will probably extend Duchene to make the trade to aquire him not look like a total failure. 2019-2020 season will be a disaster (get a high draft pick, have a new coach in place). 2020 season will be lockout. 2021 season will feature all the young talent in the system. New start with new stadium coming soon.

As an aside, I think deep pocket teams (Rangers) have much better leverage with UFAs this coming season. Potential lockout along with salary structured as bonus is going to hammer teams that don't want to have large carrying costs during the lockout. NHL board should try to do something about this (maybe offer long term low interest loans to teams to cover lockout bonus payments?).

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You're right about EM refusing to pay people. He did that with Dorion to begin with, he makes the same amount as a head scout, so if we had a competent owner that was committed it would be very easy to replace him from a $$$ perspective. Alas we dont have that and were stuck with the worst and least experienced GM in the NHL.

Absolutely ridiculous portion bolded. People are happy when the GM does a good job, ie wins and maximizes assets while putting the organization in the best situation possible for now and the future. He has done neither, now we all agree that his situation to be successful is VERY difficult however he has done very poorly even with these conditions. He has showed no ability to negotiate with other GM's as he keeps getting ripped off.

Well, as far as I know, whatever PD made as head scout, AGM and now the GM has not been made public, but if you know something I don't know, please share it.

If PD decided to do his job based on what the fan-base wanted, consulting fan sites like this one, in order to please the fans, sooner rather than later, he'd be sitting with the fans.

Like it or not, any GM of any team is going to take direction from their owners as to how they want the team operated, and yes some owners are less intrusive than others, but at the end of the day, a GM answers to their boss, and not the fans.

It's the reality of the NHL, for better or for worse.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm a legit source now as I am breaking this :


Chase Balisy
Center
1 year
NHL Salary : $650,000
AHL Salary : $135,000

 

[Heady Topper]

Plan???

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm a legit source now as I am breaking this :


Chase Balisy
Center
1 year
NHL Salary : $650,000
AHL Salary : $135,000

Hate to break it to you. 10:38 this am on the trade/free agents thread

We signed Chase Balisy.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah, but he's a legit source now for THIS thread!

 

[Qward]

I think the idea is to cut spending this season as much as possible so Melnyk can afford his end of the new arena deal.

They will keep the roster as is, hoping to climb above dead last. At the trade deadline, Stone, Duchene, Karlsson will all be traded.

Pierre was right when he said the Sens will be better, and he still gets to ship out players for his rebuild.

At the deadline
Stone to the Flames for Tkachuk and a 1st.
Duchene to Flyers for Frost +1st
Karlsson to Vegas for Glass, Hague and a 1st.

 

[Xspyrit]

Hate to break it to you. 10:38 this am on the trade/free agents thread

 

[topshelf15]

Surefire way to blow it, not only this season but for the future too.

Kids like White,Chalpik,Harpur,Wolanin etc...Should be ready

 

[JD1]

You're right about EM refusing to pay people. He did that with Dorion to begin with, he makes the same amount as a head scout, so if we had a competent owner that was committed it would be very easy to replace him from a $$$ perspective. Alas we dont have that and were stuck with the worst and least experienced GM in the NHL.

Absolutely ridiculous portion bolded. People are happy when the GM does a good job, ie wins and maximizes assets while putting the organization in the best situation possible for now and the future. He has done neither, now we all agree that his situation to be successful is VERY difficult however he has done very poorly even with these conditions. He has showed no ability to negotiate with other GM's as he keeps getting ripped off.

it seems pretty hard on this board to engage in a debate with the count and have the count seem more credible. .... but congrats Bert you pulled it off

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

it seems pretty hard on this board to engage in a debate with the count and have the count seem more credible. .... but congrats Bert you pulled it off

 

[thinkwild]

Melnyk, sick of all the complaints about his GM's missing the boat, has declared:

there will be no boats this year. It does feel weird drifting with no real solid plan, just floating into the development trough, focusing on minimal spending for an undetermined amount of time, in order to be able to follow the main plan for how to pay back the people who just lent him lots of money.

And i'd like to think that there is a plan afoot for Melnyk to sell, but its also possible that 10 yrs from now he is still in debt and owning the Sens. I hope not.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Training camp is about to start. How are people feeling about Dorion’s offseason? Do you feel like he’s taken steps toward getting the team back on track? I personally still have no clue what the plan is or what direction the team is heading in, my best guess is that we’re keepig all our UFAs at least til the trade deadline and if the team is terrible we’re selling and if the playoffs are in range we’re gonna keep them and give them the best contract offer that Melnyk will allow and hope at least some of them choose to stay with us. Does that sound about right?

 

[lancepitlick]

I think the idea is to cut spending this season as much as possible so Melnyk can afford his end of the new arena deal.

They will keep the roster as is, hoping to climb above dead last. At the trade deadline, Stone, Duchene, Karlsson will all be traded.

Pierre was right when he said the Sens will be better, and he still gets to ship out players for his rebuild.

At the deadline
Stone to the Flames for Tkachuk and a 1st.
Duchene to Flyers for Frost +1st
Karlsson to Vegas for Glass, Hague and a 1st.

Why would they be better? They are out Brassard, Hoffman and Anderson is a year older. The three best players don't want to be here. That's likely to create a more toxic environment, if anything. The defense is a shambles.

Not to mention how terrible they'll be should they actually trade the big 3.

The first line would be What? Ryan - Dzingel - Boedeker? That's brutal. Ceci and Boro as #1 pairing?

This is potentially a near historically bad team.

 

[Tuna99]

I think his plan is to keep his job by doing what the owner wants him to do. I like Dorion, but I think it;s safe to say to he has the hardest GM job in the NHL