Speculation: What is Dorion's Plan for the Senators?

Flamingo

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
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Ottawa
Has there ever been a pro sports franchise go into the season with their 4 best (and only 3 star) players all as pending UFA's?

I can't think of any team in as tough of a UFA situation off the top of my head and some quick googling. That **** is not business as usual.

The Atlanta Hawks?
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
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If I was in Dorion shoes I'd be keeping quiet for two reasons

- I spoke too much when I first got here
- The vocal part of the fanbase has made it clear that they would prefer to see me fail than see the team perform above expectations next season

What does management have to gain by speaking exactly?
 
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FunkySeeFunkyDoo

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Feb 3, 2009
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If I was in Dorion shoes I'd be keeping quiet for two reasons

- I spoke too much when I first got here
- The vocal part of the fanbase has made it clear that they would prefer to see me fail than see the team perform above expectations next season

What does management have to gain by speaking exactly?

I would add a third point, which is that anything he might say that is remotely positive (eg we are working on a long term deal with Duchesne, we think we could sign a UFA to fill out the roster, ...) will quite probably not come true and he will just look like an idiot or a liar or both.
 
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FunkySeeFunkyDoo

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Feb 3, 2009
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From all outward appearances, the plan as the owner seems to desire it is to run the team as cheaply as possible (this is not limited to the on-ice payroll, but certainly includes it) while also trying to be a playoff team, because playoff home games are part of the team's budget plan most years.

Dorion's part in this plan is to survive for as long as he can, given the hopeless directive of being competitive without any support (either through staff or budget), without losing his job.

Dorion's not a very good GM, I think most of us can agree on that, but at the same time the job he is being asked to do is borderline impossible.

"borderline impossible"?

Ethan Hunt breaking in to the CIA ultra-secure server room to steal a few files was borderline impossible. This is way beyond that.
 

RAFI BOMB

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May 11, 2016
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This organization is as disorganized as this intersection:
giphy.gif


giphy.gif
 

Ray Kinsella

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Feb 13, 2018
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If I was in Dorion shoes I'd be keeping quiet for two reasons

- I spoke too much when I first got here
- The vocal part of the fanbase has made it clear that they would prefer to see me fail than see the team perform above expectations next season

What does management have to gain by speaking exactly?

I don’t see that the fanbase is hoping to see Dorion fail. That makes no sense.
 
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Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
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I would add a third point, which is that anything he might say that is remotely positive (eg we are working on a long term deal with Duchesne, we think we could sign a UFA to fill out the roster, ...) will quite probably not come true and he will just look like an idiot or a liar or both.

People can be wrong without being idiots or liars.
 

Dionysus

Registered User
Oct 7, 2007
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Around the bend
Hard to say for sure, no doubt about that. It looks to me like for now the sens will be holding tight, hoping the team can come together this year. It is a contract year for the big names, so they will be motivated. Finishing 30th was an embarrassing season for all involved, I imagine some bounceback will be evident. A long off-season of training will help in that regard.

There are also multiple spots up for grabs that will be filled by young players. I think White, Chlapik, Paul, and Wolanin all have good shots to land a role. With younger guys like Formenton, Brown, Batherson and Tkachuk knocking on the door as well. A few other darkhorses in Jaros and Englund could surprise too.

An injection of youth coupled with a bounceback year from some of the veterans and a total buy in from the group on a revamped system from the coaching staff could push the team into a playoff spot. Margins in the NHL are so tight, just need to get on the right side of them.

I think something along those lines is what Dorion is hoping for this season. There is a great deal of risk involved for sure, but the Senators situation is one where there is high risk in every scenario. No 1st rounder, tanking is out of the question. Expiring contracts for Karl, Stone, Duchene. Tight budget, unstable ownership. Best hope is the players and coaches build a real strong team chemistry and find a style that they can continuously improve all season.
 
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Cosmix

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Jul 24, 2011
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I think the team had a plan which was to improve the team by adding vets like Brassard, Phaneuf, Burrows, Thompson and Oduya to make the team more competitive and make the playoffs to generate playoff revenues. It succeeded in year one of Dorion’s GM time, but failed miserably last season.

So the plan changed to getting rid of the high priced old vets and focusing on the draft and developing young prospects. This new plan will take time to implement and yield results. Unfortunately, some bad years are ahead of us as the plan is being implemented. Some of the previous trades to get vets has backfired because young assets were sacrificed for those vets.

Dorion is one of the two major problems this team has. Melnyk and his budget is the other.
 
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FlyingJ

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
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So then he's done under any scenario other than Melnyk retaining ownership, which in turn motivates him to shed salary and keep him happy.

Pretty much. I mean, perhaps hyppothetical new ownership offers him a scouting position due to his history there, but as a main part of management, he'd be done.

Hence why he's so happy to do Eugene's bidding while basically hiding himself in a bunker this offseason. Seriously, for a GM with so much on his plate re: contracts and the state of the team, he's been oddly quiet. To me, it suggests he either knows ANY interview would be disastrous given how things are potentially going to shake out this eason (and the Sens' new PR savvy COO probably has a hand in this) or, (and this is my dream) the silence along with botching signing the team's best forward to a long term deal is indicative of a sale.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Pretty much. I mean, perhaps hyppothetical new ownership offers him a scouting position due to his history there, but as a main part of management, he'd be done.

Hence why he's so happy to do Eugene's bidding while basically hiding himself in a bunker this offseason. Seriously, for a GM with so much on his plate re: contracts and the state of the team, he's been oddly quiet. To me, it suggests he either knows ANY interview would be disastrous given how things are potentially going to shake out this eason (and the Sens' new PR savvy COO probably has a hand in this) or, (and this is my dream) the silence along with botching signing the team's best forward to a long term deal is indicative of a sale.

Pro Hockey Franchise for Sale..

Selling Feature: All the best players are in the last year of their contract.
 

Flamingo

Registered User
Nov 13, 2008
7,910
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Ottawa
I feel like that's ringing a bell a little bit but can't put my finger on what year that would have been. Was Josh Smith one of them?

2016 and 2017? Maybe not exactly the same tsunami of core players entering UFA unsigned.

I’m not an NBA fan, but my friend is an Atlanta Hawks fan, and described the team’s plight like this:

“Atlanta has a lot of people that moved there from other towns, so they bring their own NBA allegiances. The team isn’t as rich as teams with big grass-roots fan bases, so they can’t pay the super stars that want the limelight. That makes it hard to retain their drafted core players. One season they had 4 players in the all-star game. Those players all left for teams that could buy championships, or where they could be stars in markets with big fan support.”

See the 4 Hawks players listed in the 2014-2015 all-star game. Atlanta Hawks All-Star Game Selections | Basketball-Reference.com

They all left the Hawks in 2016 and 2017.

Here’s one article that kind of outlines their loss of star players that they couldn’t sign and decided not to trade at the deadline: Atlanta Hawks offseason: The rebuild is already underway
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,829
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This organization is as disorganized as this intersection:
giphy.gif


giphy.gif

Holy shit. Please tell me that's part of some movie or something, and not a real intersection.

Something like that would have more accidents than that evil 11-foot-8 bridge in NC.
 

pzeeman

Registered User
May 15, 2013
1,227
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Aylmer
“Atlanta has a lot of people that moved there from other towns, so they bring their own NBA allegiances. The team isn’t as rich as teams with big grass-roots fan bases, so they can’t pay the super stars that want the limelight. That makes it hard to retain their drafted core players. One season they had 4 players in the all-star game. Those players all left for teams that could buy championships, or where they could be stars in markets with big fan support.”

Sounds like a pro hockey franchise I know about...
 
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Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,716
6,804
There is no "plan" as there would have been pre-Murray/Muckler/Dorion, but it's more or less the same plan.
Tape it together and hope for a little extra gate revenue from a playoff run or bubble run.
Ideally, the plan would phase out Ryan, Smith and others and replace them with NHL-ready young talent, filling the gaps with free agents like the Leafs used to do with Steckel et al.. We don't have that luxury, so we need to hope for overachievement from our young guys and go from there.

This right here, there was no plan under Murray besides don't trade Karlsson which Murray would regularly bring up in interviews about how he had a great summer because other GM's want EK but he wouldn't trade him. So I guess that has changed under Dorion because EK is on his way out, but essentially the plan seems to be:

1. Get the owners baked out plan for a playoff run (Kovalev, Bobby Ryan, Be like Vegas, Promise to go all the way)
2. Convince the owner you are a playoff team by signing Nate Thompson / Tom Pyatt.
3. Miss the playoffs and blame the coach / star player
4. Lash out at media for questioning the direction of the team
5. Go to draft and promise fans you have a playoff team
6. Wait for owners phone call about his baked out plan
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,229
10,452
Yukon
2016 and 2017? Maybe not exactly the same tsunami of core players entering UFA unsigned.

I’m not an NBA fan, but my friend is an Atlanta Hawks fan, and described the team’s plight like this:

“Atlanta has a lot of people that moved there from other towns, so they bring their own NBA allegiances. The team isn’t as rich as teams with big grass-roots fan bases, so they can’t pay the super stars that want the limelight. That makes it hard to retain their drafted core players. One season they had 4 players in the all-star game. Those players all left for teams that could buy championships, or where they could be stars in markets with big fan support.”

See the 4 Hawks players listed in the 2014-2015 all-star game. Atlanta Hawks All-Star Game Selections | Basketball-Reference.com

They all left the Hawks in 2016 and 2017.

Here’s one article that kind of outlines their loss of star players that they couldn’t sign and decided not to trade at the deadline: Atlanta Hawks offseason: The rebuild is already underway
A perfect example of why you have to shit or get off the pot with pending free agents. They lost their two big ones in Horford and Millsap for nothing. The Atlanta Hawks are a prime example of an NBA team under a constant rebuild, because their players don't stick around and long term contracts don't really exist in the NBA.
 

KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,095
945
Quotes from Mark Stone below, sure sounds the guys got together and smoothed some things out so that they don't embarrass themselves this upcoming year. Somewhat encouraging.

Stone keeping door open on signing long-term with Senators

“The year didn’t go the way anybody anticipated or anybody planned or the way anybody wanted,” Stone said. “We’ve got to do a little bit of regrouping. We have to set a standard so that on Day 1 of training camp that we’re not going to be pushovers.

“People are already ruling us out or telling us that we’re no good. A lot of us have talked and a lot of us still feel that we have a team that can compete. Sometimes it’s a good thing if you look at the way the league has gone in the last 10 years, half the teams that make the playoffs miss the playoffs the next year, so it’s not going to be easy.

“We still feel we have a group that can compete for a playoff spot, and once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen. In our dressing room, we felt we underachieved about as bad as we possibly could have, so I think that’s part of preparation or maybe getting a little too high after the year before.

“The spirits are going to be high.”
 
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tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
76,590
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Behind A Tree
Hard to say. I would hope it's short term pain for long term gain but I don't know. The handling of the Karlsson situation is what I'm watching and waiting for.
 
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