What if the Pens had 1st pick in both 2004 and 2005?

[Empoleon8771]

Not to mention getting Fleury, Lemieux, and Jagr. Granted four teams passed on drafting Jagr, the Penguins' success comes largely from tanking at just the right times and getting all the generational players. (Fleury's not that elite compared to those two, but still, 1st overall is a 1st overall)

Not even saying they do it on purpose, but they are simply the luckiest team ever.

The Penguins only ever tanked for Lemieux, the idea that they tanked for Fleury, Malkin, Crosby or Jagr is just hilariously inaccurate.

I really wish people would learn that teams sucking doesn't mean tanking. Tanking is intentionally losing. The Pens had no money in the early 2000s, so they didn't even need to intentionally lose. They lost plenty already.

To think they draft 5th overall in 2002, 1st ovr in 2003, 2nd ovr 2004, 1st ovr 2005, 2nd ovr 2006...they've actually under achieved a bit. And imagine if they had picked Staal and backstrom...and found a decent goalie somewhere.

If you think 2 cups in 10 years in the cup era is underachieving, then you have completely unrealistic expectations. There has been 1 team that has been more successful than the Penguins since the 2005 lockout.

 

[MattMartin]

and people complain about the oilers high picks with Pens getting Sid and Geno back to back!

And Fleury and Staal. Just so you know, the Penguins actually made it to the ECF in 00/01. So from 00/01 season they went from the ECF to 02/03 1st OA (Fleury) 03/04 2nd OA (Malkin) 04/05 1st OA (Crosby) 05/06 2nd OA (Staal). I really feel bad for Penguins fans. They had to endure 4 whole years of missing the playoffs before they started winning again.

Not to mention getting Fleury, Lemieux, and Jagr. Granted four teams passed on drafting Jagr, the Penguins' success comes largely from tanking at just the right times and getting all the generational players. (Fleury's not that elite compared to those two, but still, 1st overall is a 1st overall)

Not even saying they do it on purpose, but they are simply the luckiest team ever.

Yeah, it was on purpose.

 

[JaegerDice]

some think the pens don't win the cup in 2009 with ovi instead of malkin

ovi looked a lot better in that pens/caps series than malkin, why wouldn't he be a beast in the next 2 rounds?

what about the years where malkin didn't do much in the playoffs? maybe ovi carries the pens to the cup those years

Elite forward talent was not the reason the Pens failed to win a cup between 2009 and 2016. Swapping Malkin for Ovi doesn't change their depth, D or G issues.

 

[Shockmaster]

And Fleury and Staal. Just so you know, the Penguins actually made it to the ECF in 00/01. So from 00/01 season they went from the ECF to 02/03 1st OA (Fleury) 03/04 2nd OA (Malkin) 04/05 1st OA (Crosby) 05/06 2nd OA (Staal). I really feel bad for Penguins fans. They had to endure 4 whole years of missing the playoffs before they started winning again.


Yeah, it was on purpose.

I know right!? Those tanking Penguins won ZERO games in the 2004-2005 season!

 

[Bleedred]

Right before the 2003 draft, when it became apparent that Pittsburgh was gonna pick Fleury, myself and a few other friends had this idea that Pittsburgh was going to get Ovechkin in 04 and Crosby in 05.

At the time, Ovechkin was already the consensus #1 overall pick for the 04 draft, well over a year before the draft.

And Crosby seemed to be the consensus #1 pick for the 2005 draft, about 5 years before that draft even happened.

It almost seemed like that would be their new Barrasso, Lemieux and Jagr. And Ovechkin and Crosby would be just a year apart, whereas Lemieux and Jagr were 6 years apart in age.

We were wrong on them getting Ovechkin, but Malkin was a nice consolation prize. And then after the lockout cancelled season, we thought ''Okay, so maybe Pittsburgh won't get Crosby either after all'' and they eventually did anyway.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I'm getting a kick out of the idea that the Pens tanked for Jagr.

They missed the playoffs by losing in OT in the final game of the season.

The Islanders made the playoffs, finishing one point ahead of the Pens and drafted 6th. But I'm sure everyone already knows about the legendary career of Scott Scissons.

 

[OilTastic]

The management for the Oilers was just hilariously incompetent. isn't anymore, and before people go pointing to the Oilers record this past season and say...."bad record = incompetent", remember the huge mess the new management had to clean up last year and is still cleaning up now ! Rome wasn't built in a day as far as turning the Oilers into a winner goes. and to the OP i think when teams win multiple cups, the "how good would they be if they drafted so and so" is kind of irrelevant because the cups have been won and that was the goal. mission accomplished.

I'm not sure how you could say that two months after they traded an elite winger for a decent d man

so one trade makes the Oilers new management incompetent? the Oilers lose absolutely nothing making a trade like that when Hall's offence will be replaced by Lucic and Puljujarvi. and we gain yes a decent d-man who we likely haven't seen the best from and fills a huge need for this team. sometimes you have to look beyond just who won and who lost....

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Hypothetically...if the Pens somehow managed to draft both Ovechkin and Crosby, what would the team and league look like now?

Would they still be on the same team, would they win more than 2 cups?

imagine if they had taken toews over jordan staaal tbh

besides

ovi should be a panther tbh #bcuz #LeapYears

or something

tbh

 

[end]

imagine if they had taken toews over jordan staaal tbh

Pens take Toews, they don't progress as quickly in 2007, they may not get the experience of losing in 2008, and they don't get Staal's excellent Final play in 2009.

Maybe Toews would help them win after that, but Staal played too important a role in those early years to think it would happen the same with a quite different player. Staal's defensive saavy and mix of size and talent on the checking line were crucial for those 07-09 teams.

It would end the same anyways, if not faster, due to the inevitable contract crunch.

 

[KingWantsCup]

One of the great playmakers of all time passing to the greatest goal scorer of all time would just have been an unstoppable duo. There would be so many games where they could do everything wrong and still win.

 

[Ace101]

OV has had 10 years to show us what he could do in the next 2 rounds and to lead his team to the Cup. He has never done either. The excuse that he has no team has lost its credibility also.

Imagine placing the blame on one guy in a team sport. Ovi you almost doubled the production of Crosby and Malkin together this year against them in the playoffs. What the hell you didn't lead us enough. Gretzky must be really lucky to have played with the great leader Messier since Messier could win 2 cups without Gretzky. So called best player ever somehow couldn't even win the cup by himself for shame. I don't know if you just don't understand how team sports work or just are a blind hater. Probably a bit of both.

 

[mrv52]

There would be more #8 jerseys than # 87 jerseys on Pens fans backs, that for damn sure.

 

[Classicnamesup]

The Pens would have between 1 and 3 cups. All those years of failure they could have used OV who has had to single handedly will his team forward in the post season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

People need to remember Malkin didn't come over right away, he signed a two year deal and didn't come over until Crosby's sophomore season. That allowed them to still lose and take Staal.

Had Ovechkin been taken the Pens don't finish top 5 or maybe not even top 10 to pick one of Staal, Toews, Kessel or Backstrom in 2005/06.

Ovechkin also wasn't getting the LW boards on the PP from Mario for those 26 games he played that season. A lot of variables.

Things would be a lot different.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

for most of the past half decade it hasn't mattered who skates out for the Penguins. Since winning the last Cup Fleury has stopped only .894% of all playoff shots he's seen. Good luck and god bless if you're going to try to win with that kind of goaltending.

 

[Bleedred]

for most of the past half decade it hasn't mattered who skates out for the Penguins. Since winning the last Cup Fleury has stopped only .894% of all playoff shots he's seen. Good luck and god bless if you're going to try to win with that kind of goaltending.

Does that also include the 13 games of .915 goaltending in the 2014 playoffs and the 5 games of .927 goaltending in the 2015 playoffs?

It seemed as though he might have been turning a corner in the last two playoffs that he played in. He wasn't a detriment in the 2015 playoffs and was one of the Pens best players in their pathetic 5 game elimination at the hands of the Rangers, when Johnston was coaching there in the spring before last.

He played one crappy playoff game this past year, but it's just one game. Vokoun played really good in the 2013 playoffs, after having to come to their rescue from Fleury. They would have lost to that first round series to the Islanders, if he hadn't stepped in. Fleury was basically giving it right to them that year. He also played pretty well in the Boston series in the ECF, and they were still swept in 4 games.

 

[end]

Teams that lose often have statistics that positively correlate with having lost.

 

[iamjs]

There would be more #8 jerseys than # 87 jerseys on Pens fans backs, that for damn sure.

would there? There was already a #8 in Pittsburgh.

Is it possible that Ovie would have a new number?

The only time Recchi used a number different than his #8 was after he was traded from one team to another where the number wasn't available (Philly, 1999; Carolina, 2006; Boston 2010). Recchi returned to his old number in Philly for the 1999-2000 season. He never returned to Carolina, and Neely's number was retired in 2004 so Recchi stuck with 28 during the rest of his time with Boston.

 

[Jeffrey]

I would be more curious to see what if the Pens selected Toews instead of Jordan Staal.

 

[mrv52]

would there? There was already a #8 in Pittsburgh.

Is it possible that Ovie would have a new number?

The only time Recchi used a number different than his #8 was after he was traded from one team to another where the number wasn't available (Philly, 1999; Carolina, 2006; Boston 2010). Recchi returned to his old number in Philly for the 1999-2000 season. He never returned to Carolina, and Neely's number was retired in 2004 so Recchi stuck with 28 during the rest of his time with Boston.

Rechhi signed with Pens after 2004 draft, so no.

Either way, hopefully you comprehended my point

 

[tony d]

Also Pittsburgh had #1 in 2003 and picked Fleury, can you imagine if they had known what we all know and gone with Getzlaf or Weber or Bergeron?

 

[WesMcCauley]

Hypothetically...if the Pens somehow managed to draft both Ovechkin and Crosby, what would the team and league look like now?

Would they still be on the same team, would they win more than 2 cups?

They would never have gone past the 2nd round because of Ovi

 

[BenchBrawl]

Ovechkin's career is better but it's not like their level of play was much different.

But the intriguing what-if scenario with Pittsburgh drafting Ovy is that he is a winger.Malkin is a center and Malkin-Crosby aren't that great on the ice together.I wish I could have seen 10 years of Crosby-Ovechkin playing on the same line.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Ovechkin's career is better but it's not like their level of play was much different.

But the intriguing what-if scenario with Pittsburgh drafting Ovy is that he is a winger.Malkin is a center and Malkin-Crosby aren't that great on the ice together.I wish I could have seen 10 years of Crosby-Ovechkin playing on the same line.

I think things would've shaped up about the same as they have. I think Crosby and Ovechkin would've ended up on separate lines because they both needed to carry the puck so much. Ovechkin's game now would probably mesh with Crosby better than the way they played when they broke into the league.

The thought of Crosby and Gonchar feeding Ovechkin for one timers on the power play is insane though. How do you stop that?

 

[who_me?]

The thought of Crosby and Gonchar feeding Ovechkin for one timers on the power play is insane though. How do you stop that?

The same way the rest of the NHL stopped Backstrom and Mike Green feeding Ovechkin.

Zero cups for all of them.