What if the Pens had 1st pick in both 2004 and 2005?

[Empoleon8771]

Was Staal ever really that good or was he getting by on his name?
The kid barely cracked a PPG in the OHL. Toews was a very good NCAA player and was putting up huge numbers at Shattuck. Staal was really good midget player. I just feel like Toews was always the better player. People just got on the Staal hype train because of his name, size and OHL.

Staal was pretty good by the time he was traded to Carolina. He was a legit 2nd line center for his last 4 seasons for the Penguins, especially in 10-11 and 11-12. He was just never able to do that again with Carolina. Had the Pens not had Malkin, I don't doubt that Staal would have developed into one of the better 2Cs in hockey.

The Pens were bankrupt because of hilariously incompetent management.

If by "hilariously incompetent management", you mean an owner who lied about how much money he had and made dumb business decisions, then yes, they had hilariously incompetent management.

 

[SEALBound]

Assume they took Ovechkin and Crosby.

2016 threads would be titled: "Will anyone challenge the Penguins this year? Or will they win their 11th straight Cup?"

Kidding. Who knows. Imagine if Washington took Malkin instead and the Pens got Ovechkin and then took Toews or Backstrom instead of Staal! :O

xxxx-Crosby-xxxx
Ovechkin-Toews-xxxx
xxxx-xxxx-xxxx
Glass-Adams-xxxx

We would have been set!

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Would rather have malkin

 

[Sam Spade]

They would have nothing because Ovechkin is not a good hockey player and takes too many shots.

Seriously though, having two number centers is a pretty big thing in this league. So the Pens might not have a Cup but I bet the Caps with Malkin and Backstrom would.

 

[Aceboogie]

The crazier thing is that they took Jordan Staal over Jonathen Toews the next year (2006). Could you imagine Geno, Crosby and Toews?
Or like the OP says a Ovi, Crosby and Toews team?
****in dynasty.

One would have to play wing, although id think Ovy, Crosby, Toews would be one of best trios ever

 

[Aceboogie]

I think a super light version of what Ovy and Crosby could have been would be Laine-McDavid which almost happened. Maybe a gliompse of what it could have been could potentially be seen with McDavid-Puljujarvi if everything goes right

 

[Acallabeth]

Oh, I think a lot of hockey fans have fantasized about this scenario. The butterfly effect would be gigantic. Both Ovechkin and Crosby would score 120+ points and thus contend for the Art Ross Trophy since their very first seasons, probably winning several of them. Ovechkin would also have way higher goal totals and flirt with 70 goals. Maybe Lemieux would stay in the league a bit longer? The Penguins would make the playoffs in 2006 and would be unable to draft high again; having little center depth, they would look for another C in the draft, but idk if they could find success. Maybe they would take Giroux who was drafted late Capitals would be even worse after the lockout because Malkin wouldn't come over. They would probably contend for ther #1 pick again, and having a star up and coming center, they would probably pick Eric Johnson or Kessel. Not playing behind Crosby, Malkin could possibly develop in an ultra-elite #1C. The East would definitely look different.

Seriously though, having two number centers is a pretty big thing in this league. So the Pens might not have a Cup but I bet the Caps with Malkin and Backstrom would.

No they wouldn't, have you seen the Caps in 2006? Backstrom is also nowhere near peak Crosby, and he'd never develop into a #1C behind Malkin. Moreover, I don't think he would even get drafted by the Caps.

 

[TheStroker]

It's an interesting thought. OV + Sid might have been one of the most lethal duos in NHL history. But IMO it's that center depth that has made the Pens so good for so long.

For me it's the top 2 centers in the NHL > the top players + the top winger.

 

[Male75FromFinland]

Glad we didn't. Geno was a better fit with how we were trying to rebuild. Not saying the Caps drafted the wrong player, but we wouldn't have won any Cups with Ovechkin on the team.

agree

 

[kingsholygrail]

Would they have been able to afford keeping both?

 

[THall4]

Hypothetically...if the Pens somehow managed to draft both Ovechkin and Crosby, what would the team and league look like now?

Would they still be on the same team, would they win more than 2 cups?

Didn't washing win the lottery that year? to win the Ovi sweepstakes? Pretty sure the Penguins finished 30th that year.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

They probably don't win any cups.

 

[Call me betty*]

i think we might be lucky to even win 1 cup...

having the 2 elite centers is matchup nightmare then having one really good line..and before you say you can just put OV on another line. He'd get torched in the playoffs without a great 2 way center to make up for his lack of defensive game...

 

[hotcarle]

the reason why pittsburgh had 3 lottery balls in the lottery for the 2005 draft was because they had not had a 1st overall pick in the past 4 drafts (and had not made the playoffs in the past 3 seasons). Maybe we have a different team drafting 1st overall in 2005 if Pittsburgh had fewer lottery balls!


Though it would be interesting to think about an OV + Crosby Penguins franchise. As good as Malkin was, he wasn't the face of the league like those two were.

Fleury first overall 2003.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Fleury first overall 2003.

They traded for that pick from Florida:

 

[SEALBound]

They traded for that pick from Florida:

Wonder what would have happened had the Penguins not traded that pick...or perhaps took Staal?

E. Staal-Crosby
Ovechkin-Toews

No goalie to speak of but...

 

[who_me?]

Would not have happened because then there would be no forced Crosby-Ovechkin rivalry to promote by the media.

 

[Daximus]

Staal was pretty good by the time he was traded to Carolina. He was a legit 2nd line center for his last 4 seasons for the Penguins, especially in 10-11 and 11-12. He was just never able to do that again with Carolina. Had the Pens not had Malkin, I don't doubt that Staal would have developed into one of the better 2Cs in hockey.

That's the thing though where he was drafted and compared to other C's in his draft he should have been a 1C. Toews, Brassard, Little and Giroux. All taken later than him and all much better producers at every level. They just didn't have the Staal name and the 6'4 frame to go higher.

 

[Revelation]

i think we might be lucky to even win 1 cup...

having the 2 elite centers is matchup nightmare then having one really good line..and before you say you can just put OV on another line. He'd get torched in the playoffs without a great 2 way center to make up for his lack of defensive game...

Yeah just like the dude in your avatar but even more

 

[AK44]

If by "hilariously incompetent management", you mean an owner who lied about how much money he had and made dumb business decisions, then yes, they had hilariously incompetent management.

You got it!

 

[ikyan]

We would have been worse off.

Adding Ovechkin + Crosby means we finish too high in 2006 to get Staal or Toews.

Sid + Ovi + Mueller/Sheppard/Frolik vs Sid + Geno + Staal

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

some think the pens don't win the cup in 2009 with ovi instead of malkin

ovi looked a lot better in that pens/caps series than malkin, why wouldn't he be a beast in the next 2 rounds?

what about the years where malkin didn't do much in the playoffs? maybe ovi carries the pens to the cup those years

 

[Regnes]

and people complain about the oilers high picks with Pens getting Sid and Geno back to back!

Not to mention getting Fleury, Lemieux, and Jagr. Granted four teams passed on drafting Jagr, the Penguins' success comes largely from tanking at just the right times and getting all the generational players. (Fleury's not that elite compared to those two, but still, 1st overall is a 1st overall)

Not even saying they do it on purpose, but they are simply the luckiest team ever.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

some think the pens don't win the cup in 2009 with ovi instead of malkin

ovi looked a lot better in that pens/caps series than malkin, why wouldn't he be a beast in the next 2 rounds?

what about the years where malkin didn't do much in the playoffs? maybe ovi carries the pens to the cup those years

OV has had 10 years to show us what he could do in the next 2 rounds and to lead his team to the Cup. He has never done either. The excuse that he has no team has lost its credibility also.

 

[hotcarle]

They traded for that pick from Florida:

Thanks, forgot they traded up..all things considered, it wasn't a huge price to pay.

To think they draft 5th overall in 2002, 1st ovr in 2003, 2nd ovr 2004, 1st ovr 2005, 2nd ovr 2006...they've actually under achieved a bit. And imagine if they had picked Staal and backstrom...and found a decent goalie somewhere.