Speculation: What happens to Tatar now?

[drw02]

You're assuming a team will be willing to pick up Tootoo and his 1.9M salary via trade. I think Holland was trying all season to shed him to no avail. This is a guy who was benched by TWO teams two years in a row throughout the playoffs. At 1.9M? Good luck. Another bonehead signing that has crippled us.

All talk in the front office is that Tatar will be the one moved.

Nobody will take Tootoo by himself. We will have to include an incentive. There are quite a few teams with a lot of cap space that would probably be willing to take on a little more salary for a decent draft pick.

All the talk that Tatar will be the one moved is pure speculation.

 

[MTU hockey]

You're assuming a team will be willing to pick up Tootoo and his 1.9M salary via trade. I think Holland was trying all season to shed him to no avail. This is a guy who was benched by TWO teams two years in a row throughout the playoffs. At 1.9M? Good luck. Another bonehead signing that has crippled us.

All talk in the front office is that Tatar will be the one moved.

Gotta link for that buddy?

 

[drw02]

He doesn't have a link because it's not true. All the rumors are from the media who have no access to the front office discussions on the matter.

 

[PullHard]

Well I dont understand this massive infatuation about getting prospects up in big club as fast as possible at all cost.

Part of that is that the site these boards are affiliated with is called "Hockey's Future."

From my POV, having a 22 year old AHL playoff (or was it only Finals?) MVP, and a 24 year old is not wanting to get them up as fast as possible. These guys would be on literally any other team in the NHL's roster by now if they had been drafted by them. Having roughly 2 lines + healthy scratches worth of veteran pluggers is overkill, and could result in our team losing promising young players for nothing. It isn't about "fast as possible" or the "future," it is about giving these guys a proper opportunity when their time has come. We are severely limiting their chances as it currently stands.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Those doubting Tatar is a moving piece etc..

WE DONT HAVE GUYS WITH ANY VALUE. He is tops. Hey I would love to move abby someone brought that up just mike loves the guy and cleary so that aint happening.

If someone can figure out how to move these guys without just dropping them to waivers you figure it out. I personally dont see teams clamoring to get eaves emmerton's sammy's etc...

not a lot of teams want tootoo or anything detroit has to offer the guy that makes the most sense to get rid of a couple and get something back reasonable is TATAR. That is just fact.

P.S. Doesnt matter if we do not move him with what we will have on roster he is not getting the minutes he should

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Tatar with one of the goals in the scrimmage today. Ended 2-2. Apparently it was a doozy.

also, from a Khan interview:

“I would expect to be traded if I won't make the team,'' Tatar said. “I'm going to do my best to be here, but it's a business. You never know, they might get some offer and have to accept it. They have so many forwards. I love it here. In my heart I want to stay here because this is the team that drafted me, they had the patience to develop me on the farm team. Might as well repay that.''

and

“I finished the AHL best I can, I won the Cup and I got the MVP,'' Tatar said. “I was there four years, I produced a lot. I think that league would just slow me down from now on, that's why I got to think next step, and for me that's NHL. I hope it would be Detroit. I love it here, I love the fans.''

 

[Vladdy84]

Tatar with one of the goals in the scrimmage today. Ended 2-2. Apparently it was a doozy.

also, from a Khan interview:



and

They better not ****ing trade him. This is so ridiculous. THANK YOU DAN CLEARY, MIKE BABCOCK AND KEN HOLLAND!

 

[Flowah]

Tatar with one of the goals in the scrimmage today. Ended 2-2. Apparently it was a doozy.

also, from a Khan interview:



and

Sigh. Well, no matter what, good luck Tatar tots.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Well I dont understand this massive infatuation about getting prospects up in big club as fast as possible at all cost. ]/quote]

When you start your missive by grossly exaggerating the point you disagree with, you show you aren't really interested in a discussion.

Anyone who expects to be viewed with credibility accepts that the Wings develop their prospects much slower than just about any team in the NHL.

Since when did we care so much about prospects? Yeah I understand clubs need their prospects in salary cap era but to me, it's about the win and if Wings do well in playoffs, I could care less if Tatar dishes out towels at the bench for rest of the year... and so should everyone one of us. Unless you are his agent or his mom. Let's make one thing clear. I would love to see Tatar do well after his time in GR. why wouldnt anyone? But I think alot of people here are getting priority backward.

Teams win with youth.
Look at the salary cap era.
Go to HockeyDB. Check out the contribution that the contributions 20 to 25 year olds make to championship teams and get back to us.

In my humble opinion, Wings prospects got to NHL when they were actually ready. Not when they think they are ready or when some of overzealous fans think ready they are ready. well maybe except Nyquist.. I think he could have debuted about half a season sooner. As for Tatar.. I didnt watch any regular season game last season so I dont know. But you know, having a half a season or so more in AHL would help them grow anyways. Especially if that helps them become a career NHLer. Sure some guys might want to make a quick 3 million but tons of prospects get to NHL before they are ready, put in unfair situations and end up having very short careers.

oh.

You just seem to accept that Cleary makes us better because he's experienced and that we should just trust Kenny?
Is there more to your point?

 

[BinCookin]

Well I dont understand this massive infatuation about getting prospects up in big club as fast as possible at all cost. Since when did we care so much about prospects? Yeah I understand clubs need their prospects in salary cap era but to me, it's about the win and if Wings do well in playoffs, I could care less if Tatar dishes out towels at the bench for rest of the year... and so should everyone one of us. Unless you are his agent or his mom. Let's make one thing clear. I would love to see Tatar do well after his time in GR. why wouldnt anyone? But I think alot of people here are getting priority backward.

In my humble opinion, Wings prospects got to NHL when they were actually ready. Not when they think they are ready or when some of overzealous fans think ready they are ready. well maybe except Nyquist.. I think he could have debuted about half a season sooner. As for Tatar.. I didnt watch any regular season game last season so I dont know. But you know, having a half a season or so more in AHL would help them grow anyways. Especially if that helps them become a career NHLer. Sure some guys might want to make a quick 3 million but tons of prospects get to NHL before they are ready, put in unfair situations and end up having very short careers.

What I really dont understand is why so many people bought into this weird idea that we need to fire our GM because couple prospects may or may not have spent ONE more season than is necessary in AHL. Seriously? Holland is terrible because Tatar played in AHL last season and Wings had a successful transition season? If you thought something sounds wrong last sentence, you are probably right. A lot of us think making playoff every season is god given right? Let me tell you alot of us dont even know how we have it so good in red wings.

anyways what I'm saying is, why worry so much and be so emotionally invested in... nothing? I understand bit of frustration. sure. but this level of craziness last few days? This is completely absurd. I mean You guys seem way more pissed than a Wings loss in playoff.

Take a chill pill wait 3 weeks or whatever, Holland will work it out. Well, he kinda has to. He has no choice. If Nyquist starts the season in GR? who cares if Wings win? Obviously Holland made a right decision because Wings won. End of f story.

yeah if we start losing then all you naysayers can come out and have a field day. But we havent even played a single game yet. Hell, if it guarantees a W, I would have no problem seeing anyone in suit up in pressbox.

Yemack I understand your point. Most fans here are very pro prospects. Many really like Landon Ferraro and mention him as making the red wings in 1-2 years... meanwhile I am not convinced yet he will make the NHL. So people here are very optimistic about players potential etc. So on that side I agree.

But Let me be quite clear. Nyquist and Tatar are ready for the NHL. You mentioned you did not watch any games last season.

I can sum up what happened.

Nyquist and Tatar both spent Some (~10-15) games with the DRW and the rest in the AHL last season. When they were in the NHL, they were some of our strongest forwards. They had alot of skill that I do NOT see being utilized by our current roster.

If this was 2002. I would agree with you that Tatar does not get a chance to play in the NHL. But this is not our stacked 2002 team.

We have 35+ Sammy, 35+ Bertuzzi, We have Abdelkader (our former 4th liner) on the first line. (is there any other example in the NHL of a 4th liner for 2-3 seasons moving up to the first line for a few seasons??). Abdelkader was horrible, but he simply provided little to cheer for. He does not shoot well, he does not pass well. I mean thats sort of the essence of a first line player. Cleary had a really bad season while getting alot of ice time. He had a strong playoff performance.

I understand loyalty. I understand Cleary plays well for us defensively. But we can't win the cup with cleary in our top 6, or abdelkader in our top 6.

I am not saying Tatar or Nyquist are the next best thing... but they have shown glimpses of real skill. We need to give them a freakin steady role for 1 season.

Our team is honestly really weak if you just erase Datsyuk and Zetterberg from our roster. ... Infact we might be the worst team in the league if you erase those 2. We have 5 Veteran's contracts ending this year. Holland will FINALLY have to NOT resign some of them, to make room for ANYONE young.

Eventually we will need a player in his 20's to play for our team.

Right now we almost have none!

NONE!

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I really like Tatar and I don't want to see him traded....but, we really do have a few solid wing prospects that are close to being ready for the NHL (Jurco, Frk, Mantha), not to mention Nyquist who the Wings seem to have more faith in. So if has to be traded, it better be for an defenseman.

I'd be okay with trading Tatar for Cody Franson straight up, or as a piece in a trade for a top 2 guy like Edler.

Tatar should have been given more of a chance in Detroit at this point, but I have a feeling that they see some kind of character flaw in him (only my speculation), because I can't think of any other reason why he was sent back to GR last year. He was definitely one of our best forwards during his short stint last season. I believe he's already a better player than Jiri Hudler ever was.

What about one the the Pens plethora of D prospects? I'd assume that Pouliot and Maatta are off the table be something could prolly be done around one of Dumoulin, Harrington, Bortuzzo, or Samuelsson.

 

[BinCookin]

What about one the the Pens plethora of D prospects? I'd assume that Pouliot and Maatta are off the table be something could prolly be done around one of Dumoulin, Harrington, Bortuzzo, or Samuelsson.

If I was the GM, i would respectfully say no to your trade offer.

I bet if he plays 70+ games this year, he will be worth MORE than Maatta or Pouliot.

That is my bet, it might be wrong... But I would want the 1 year before I traded him

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

If I was the GM, i would respectfully say no to your trade offer.

I bet if he plays 70+ games this year, he will be worth MORE than Maatta or Pouliot.

That is my bet, it might be wrong... But I would want the 1 year before I traded him

If he plays 70+ games this on what team? From what I've read here it doesn't sound like that team is Detroit.

As of right no he isn't worth DP or Maatta, let alone "MORE" than them.

 

[Flowah]

Holland will FINALLY have to NOT resign some of them, to make room for ANYONE young.

You'd think that!

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Depending on how much you distrust Malik, you could take this as a positive indication:

Day 1.

Tomas Tatar: Tatar looked like someone who already assumed that his number was close to being up with the team. He's very driven, skating very hard, looking to make plays, to generate scoring chances and to be in the right spot at the right time. He came to camp with a fire lit under his ass.

Day 2.

Tomas Tatar: But Tatar stole the show. He made Cleary look slow at times, blazing up and down the ice, making precision passes, firing off slithery shots, grinding and even hacking and whacking to out-compete as well as out-skate his opponents to the puck. He was pissed off, and it showed.

Day 3.

Tomas Tatar: DETERMINED. Tatar is bound and determined to earn a roster spot, and man, you do not want to get in front of the blazingly fast forward with a wicked multi-species shot, heads-up passing and a tenacious bite to him.

It sounds like he's done quite well so far. If he continues that into the preseason, he should have a roster spot.

But for those of you who think that Tatar playing really well still won't get him on the team, why follow training camp and torture yourselves like this?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Too bad Tatar isn't 35 years old. All that hard work wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Too bad Tatar isn't 35 years old. All that hard work wouldn't be necessary.

Apparently Cleary is working his ass off too. So if the hard work isn't necessary for him, I'm sure that impresses Babcock all the more...

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Depending on how much you distrust Malik, you could take this as a positive indication:

Day 1.

Day 2.

Day 3.

It sounds like he's done quite well so far. If he continues that into the preseason, he should have a roster spot.

But if you guys (third person plural) think that Tatar playing really well won't get him on the team, then why follow training camp and torture yourself like this?

Malik does two thingsL:
1) Sucks up to management
2) Sucks up to readers.
He knows readers are bewildered by the Cleary signing and what that might mean for Tatar, so now he's Tatar's champion....

But seriously, Malik's prospect "analysis" has no credibility.
NONE.
It's babble.
"He made cleary look slow"
What the ****? Cleary is one of our slowest skaters, which his why he nearly doubled the second leading Red Wing forward in minor penalties.

Here's some pure BS:
"He came to camp with a fire lit under his ass....he was pissed off and it showed..."


Mindless garbage:
"you do not want to get in front of the blazingly fast forward with a wicked multi-species shot, heads-up passing and a tenacious bite to him"

Anyone who accepts Malik's nonsense as fact is asking to be misinformed.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Depending on how much you distrust Malik, you could take this as a positive indication:

Day 1.

Day 2.

Day 3.

It sounds like he's done quite well so far. If he continues that into the preseason, he should have a roster spot.

But for those of you who think that Tatar playing really well still won't get him on the team, why follow training camp and torture yourselves like this?

I think he is on the team without a crazy trade that may come up. I would say am 90% tatar and nyquist are both on opening roster and eaves and emmerton would be odd men out with helm ltir.

I do however think that neither nyquist or tatar get over 20 minutes together on this team all year. So am hoping for a trade that somehow moves some people and gets cleary abby out of the top six. If that doesnt happen a physical top four d man with some power play capability would be ok too to move one of them.

Like I said I doubt we could make this happen. Think we are stuck this year with way it is going to be. Tatar gets his 8-11 minutes a game nyquist gets buried. We keep emmerton for center depth etc.. even though have better options right now.

The one guy we can trade besides eaves to me is tootoo who I would like to keep personally.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But seriously, Malik's prospect "analysis" has no credibility.

What makes you think your analysis of Malik has merit? Where's your credibility? Malik gets paid to write and talk hockey. Hell, he even gets to show up to press events and interview the big names.

What is it that you do again in the hockey world? Why should we believe you over him? From my standpoint, you've proven nothing. You've been spouting off about how bad he is for a while now, but he's still paid and you're still an anonymous message board poster...

I think Malik won that one.

 

[Flowah]

What makes you think your analysis of Malik has merit? Where's your credibility? Malik gets paid to write and talk hockey. Hell, he even gets to show up to press events and interview the big names.

What is it that you do again in the hockey world? Why should we believe you over him? From my standpoint, you've proven nothing. You've been spouting off about how bad he is for a while now, but he's still paid and you're still an anonymous message board poster...

I think Malik won that one.

Why do you always resort to this terrible and flawed argument?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Why do you always resort to this terrible and flawed argument?

What's the flaw? It's simple. If you're going to challenge someone's credibility, we need to know why we should believe you. That is, you need to have some credibility of your own in order to do it.

I don't see it. That's the argument. If you think the flaw is that it's an ad hominem, you're very much wrong.

What makes it a tougher case is that Malik has some level of instant credibility in that he is a professional, and has been for years. If RWN is superior to Malik in such an obvious way, why hasn't KK or another such site picked up his blog? What's he going to say to that? Is he going to grace us with the time-honored "I have better things to do" retort?

Mind you, it's also one thing to say "I think X is wrong about this" and quite another to say "I think X is wrong about basically everything ever." The second is a very strong claim, and you need to show why you're qualified to completely judge somebody like that.

 

[Yemack]

well it seems most of you take offence to my opinion and honestly, I already answered some of your most concerns as well throughout my posts. So I will try not to say anything on this subject and save me a hassle of replaying to everyone of you.

Let's see how it plays out shall we?

 

[Sadekuuro]

a wicked multi-species shot

I have experience playing the game, a Ph.D. in biology, and have been a fan for over two decades... and I still have no idea what this means.

 

[Flowah]

What's the flaw? It's simple. If you're going to challenge someone's credibility, we need to know why we should believe you. That is, you need to have some credibility of your own in order to do it.

I don't see it. That's the argument. If you think the flaw is that it's an ad hominem, you're very much wrong.

It's flawed because it's an appeal to authority instead of looking at the argument itself. And a rather bad authority at that. It's not like he's a doctor or something that requires specialized knowledge. It's not like being a pro-athlete. Pretty much anyone with decent writing ability and a passion for the sport can do it. Sports interviews are a joke. "So, do you think it really helps to have >key player< back from injury?" "What do you have to do better in the next period?" "How do you like >new guy<?"

And the idea that if you're not doing something professionally, you must automatically be worse at it than someone who does, is flawed. It's not a conclusion that makes sense. Again, especially in a field like sports journalism. People take different jobs for different reasons. If someone takes another job because it pays better, or because they like it more, it doesn't mean they then suck at everything else. People can be talented in more than 1 thing. I personally make no judgment on RWN's "sports writing" ability because I haven't seen any.

For starters, and RWN mentioned it, I cringed as Malik described Tatar as "speedy" who burned by Cleary. I mean... yeah... Cleary is slow. I mean, is that supposed to be insightful? His content is filled with fluff and extremely subjective opinions that aren't really informative or useful.

Just as a completely unrelated question. Have you ever question a professional's ability in their field of work of which you are not also a professional?