News Article: What happened?

[Miller Time]

and some other points

There’s a clip from the Canadiens’ self-produced behind the scenes television show “24CH†from two seasons ago where Therrien angrily tells his team that they’re being too fancy by trying to cycle the puck down low. He said they needed to go wide when breaking in off the rush, shoot from bad angles, and crash the net for rebounds. He finished by saying “We’re a grinding team, accept itâ€, which is an odd strategy to push on one of the NHL’s smallest rosters.

guess what, Phil Jackson said the exact same thing to his star filled Chicago Bulls in the 90's. That's just what coaches do.

...

s a result, they have trouble generating high danger scoring chances.

hm ok, let's look at war-on-ice for high danger scoring stats

http://war-on-ice.com/teamtable.html

hm ok, 12th overall in the league ahead of Washington, St. Louis, Rangers, Anaheim and so on.

...

Carey Price has papered over the faults in Therrien’s system for years, but without him in net, the problems are there for all to see.

yeah right, Canadiens are getting average goaltending to the rest of the league now. Great comparable.

if you are seriously trying to compare MT's approach to coaching/leadership to Phil Jackson... i'll stop now to avoid being very rude and insulting, and leave at there is clearly a lot missing in your evaluation/analysis.

 

[LaP]

This is from WarOnIce. It's the goalies SV% from High-Danger areas. This is where most goals are scored, and what separates great from good from bad goaltending. As you can see, Montreal has spent 90% of the season handicapped by possibly the worst goalie combo in its history. The stats are from December until now (when the collapse began):

Now obviously some of these high-danger chances happened because our D screwed up. But every team gives up high-danger chances. If dmen didn't screw up, every game in the league would be decided by a score of 1-0. The difference is that every other team's goalies have been able to compensate for their dmen's mistakes much better, and make saves that OUR goalies consistently let into the net.

I was watching Pens-TB yesterday and it's unbelievable how better Bishop is to Condon and Scrivens. I had forgotten already what great goaltending is. At the end of the 2nd the score was 4-2 TB and the Pens had a 5 on 3. Letang one timed it point blank from inside the faceoff circle and Bishop made the save easily. It did not even look hard. Scrivens and Condon don't stop that most of the time. I can safely say that with Condon and Scrivens in the net for TB at worse the Pens push this game in OT instead of losing 4-2. The shots were 39-30 for the Pens ...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Conversely, we are still playing Desharnais on the first line despite it being an objective fact he's inferior to both Plekanec and Galchenyuk.

How is Desharnais on the first line? He plays less ES minutes than Plekanec and less PP minutes than both Plekanec and Galchenyuk.

So he sometimes plays with Pacioretty (less than half the games)? Then maybe it is Pacioretty who is on the second or even third line (when they play with Weise) in those games.

The guy is paid $3.5M to score 48 points or so. This year he is falling quite short of the target, but whatever his result, the target is not that of a 1st line center.

 

[yianik]

Yes, these concerns have been on these boards for years now. Berkshire said these were his top 3 reasons, and yes there are more.

Finally mainstream media is pounding home the fan insights and frustrations over our Habs. I have to believe these stories are reaching Molson and MB , and as long as MB is not completely arrogant and has some common sense, then these observations have to register and cause him to wonder what most of us know. MT is not a complete idiot, but he clearly has personality issues, perhaps disorders, that cause him to coach in a manner that ultimately undermines the team and prevents it from being the best the organization can ice. He is not bright, rigid as I said, petty, vindictive and cannot see the forest for the trees. He must go

What I have expresed concern about along with others is that because MT has blocked or hindered the development of young players, some hage lost several years, we do not know what we have. Trading here is dangerous as it is possible that we have guys who could really flourish under a new team, read new coach. MB should stick to unloading ufas only, until a new coach has a chance with the team.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

well ok, if being under 30 is your threshold for being young then the Habs rely on youngsters too. Subban, Max, Price and so on are all under 30 too. Who am I missing on Tampa who's under 24 and be an important part of their team outside of Kucherov and Namestnikov?

And none of them have improved under him. Subban used to play an aggressive rush style, leveling the opposition with bone crushing hits and taking the puck up the ice ala Karlsson and Doughty. Now he opts for the safe play because under Therrien, that's the only option. And before you cite their individual performances, Price and Subban do well in spite of Therrien not because of him.

 

[deandebean]

and some other points

There’s a clip from the Canadiens’ self-produced behind the scenes television show “24CH†from two seasons ago where Therrien angrily tells his team that they’re being too fancy by trying to cycle the puck down low. He said they needed to go wide when breaking in off the rush, shoot from bad angles, and crash the net for rebounds. He finished by saying “We’re a grinding team, accept itâ€, which is an odd strategy to push on one of the NHL’s smallest rosters.

guess what, Phil Jackson said the exact same thing to his star filled Chicago Bulls in the 90's. That's just what coaches do.

...

s a result, they have trouble generating high danger scoring chances.

hm ok, let's look at war-on-ice for high danger scoring stats

http://war-on-ice.com/teamtable.html

hm ok, 12th overall in the league ahead of Washington, St. Louis, Rangers, Anaheim and so on.

...

Carey Price has papered over the faults in Therrien’s system for years, but without him in net, the problems are there for all to see.

yeah right, Canadiens are getting average goaltending to the rest of the league now. Great comparable.

Phil Jackson? You just compared Phil Jackson to Michel Therrien? It's like comparing Bobby Orr to Yves Racine!

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Sure, I agree it's hard to defend Therrien's anti-logic approach to lines and player usage. In general there's no question his stubbornness hurt us. But if we're talking just the last three months I'll politely say it's tougher to buy that something he's done for three years had such a sudden, dramatic, historic effect.

As mentioned, that isn't the argument. Price's absence has exposed what was already a fundamentally awful system. I won't deny we have had horrendous goaltending during this stretch, but we should not be this bad. Even commentators and analysts have openly asked why the Habs continue to play the exact same style of hockey despite missing a core component of their roster. When Lundqvist went down, the Rangers shifted to a conservative oriented system to limit his exposure. Therrien has basically told Condon, "Be like Carey Price" and then wonders why it isn't working.

The way I see it, awful goaltender and awful coaching is what led to this historical collapse.

How is Desharnais on the first line? He plays less ES minutes than Plekanec and less PP minutes than both Plekanec and Galchenyuk.

So he sometimes plays with Pacioretty (less than half the games)? Then maybe it is Pacioretty who is on the second or even third line (when they play with Weise) in those games.

The guy is paid $3.5M to score 48 points or so. This year he is falling quite short of the target, but whatever his result, the target is not that of a 1st line center.

It honestly makes little difference since either my scenario or yours makes Therrrien look like a bumbling fool. Pacioretty performed significantly better with Plekanec, and they have yet to even try him with Galchenyuk. The fact we put our best scoring forward on a pseudo-third line is utterly asinine.

And he amassed those totals playing on our first line. Unless you want to make the argument Pacioretty has been on our second line for four years now.

 

[Evil Ted]

Price and Subban do well in spite of Therrien not because of him.

This is so true about Subban, MT has always hated him and consistently comments about how he has much to learn or change in his game. Half of me wishes he would get traded so we could see his true potential he is also a great person in life and the community.

 

[Daniels45]

This is so true about Subban, MT has always hated him and consistently comments about how he has much to learn or change in his game. Half of me wishes he would get traded so we could see his true potential he is also a great person in life and the community.

Hate is a strong word. Too strong in this case. When MT was employed by RDS he was just saying that PK needed to be a bit more responsible with the puck. There is not a coach in this league that enjoys watching a defensman coughing up the puck as often as PK does. Babcock didnt want him on his Olympic team for crying out loud and we all know how much the anti MT croud loves Babcock.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hate is a strong word. Too strong in this case. When MT was employed by RDS he was just saying that PK needed to be a bit more responsible with the puck. There is not a coach in this league that enjoys watching a defensman coughing up the puck as often as PK does. Babcock didnt want him on his Olympic team for crying out loud and we all know how much the anti MT croud loves Babcock.

Babcock also sometimes played Zetterberg and Datsyuk on LW, even though the replacement Top-6 center was objectively not as good as the shifted player. Oh my God how can anyone do that??

Maybe we'll now be told that it's because Babcock went to McGill and some local madness rubbed off on him.

 

[BaseballCoach]

As mentioned, that isn't the argument. Price's absence has exposed what was already a fundamentally awful system. I won't deny we have had horrendous goaltending during this stretch, but we should not be this bad. Even commentators and analysts have openly asked why the Habs continue to play the exact same style of hockey despite missing a core component of their roster. When Lundqvist went down, the Rangers shifted to a conservative oriented system to limit his exposure. Therrien has basically told Condon, "Be like Carey Price" and then wonders why it isn't working.

The way I see it, awful goaltender and awful coaching is what led to this historical collapse.

Apparently, all the biggest anti-MT posters agree that he is horrible, but just don't agree whether he is too conservative or not conservative enough.

Oh, and they also agree that he sometimes says "da" instead of "the". Totally unacceptable!

 

[Fish on The Sand]

We have disagreed on this before, however I maintain even if we had Holtby, we would be struggling to win games. Would we be in this monumental a freefall? No. But we wouldn't be good either. Therrien's system is so utterly reliant on Carey Price, you're essentially demanding any goalie who replaces him to replicate his performance. Regardless, we're little more than a pretender with Price.

That's not saying much because Holtby has been a dumpster fire over the last month or so.

 

[CanadienShark]

omg ... so much wrong with that piece of crap. Let's just look at the first claim to begin with.

Consistent misjudging of talent/Avoiding young players

Ever since the 2005 NHL lockout, the trend around the league has been towards youth and taking advantage of players on entry-level contract to provide scoring depth. Yet with Therrien at the helm of the Canadiens, only three prospects have graduated full time to the roster: Brendan Gallagher, Alex Galchenyuk, and Nathan Beaulieu.

hm ok, let's look around the league what contending teams play so many more youngsters (U24) in important roles than the Habs

Montréal: 1 top 3 pick and 2 more = 3

Anaheim: 1 top 6 and 1 more = 2
Boston: 1 top 6 and 3 more = 4
Chicago: 1
Colorado: 2 top 2 and another top 10 = 3
Dallas: 2 top 10 and 2 more = 4
Detroit: 2
Florida: 3 top 3 picks and 2 more = 5
Los Angeles: 2
Nashville: one 4 and an 11 = 2
NYI: 1 top 5 pick
NYR: 2
Pittsburgh: 1
San Jose: 4
St. Louis: 2
Tampa Bay: 2
Washington: 3

okay, so how are the Habs so much worse than other teams to play young players and how is that costing them so much?

Only 4 teams play more youngsters and 3 of them is due to high picks.

...

then goes on to compare Beaulieu to Emelin using strictly offensive stats ... wow, awesome job ...

There's so much wrong with this post. Berkshire is totally on point with his article. Did you even read it? Because your "criticism" doesn't even address what he said.

 

[xDirtyxSkunkx]

MT is a big part of the probleme but MB share his part too, letting Condon (rookie goalie) in this mess is pretty stupid, Scrivens never was a good goalie except on a verry good system in LA , Therrien's system stinks.

But again, im sure MB speak with MT and ask him what kind of players he wants, he don't go and claim all the waivers without asking MT what kind of players he want. Some fans of Therrien thinks that MB just go and trade for bad players whitout talking to Therrien about it.

I will not blame the goalies for this collapse, Condon is a rookie and they totally ****** his carreer, and Scrivens is a backup in ahl at best. They we're put in a position to fail. This mess lay on management's shoulders. They are brutal everywhere, can't believe Lefevbre still ''developping'' our young talents, not really surprising Scherbak is sruggling.

 

[Bacchus1]

Good article, I agree with most of what he's written here.

Meh, its clearly a populist view. I also don't like the attitude that 'he agree's with us so it is good'.

MTL has been a tough place for rookies for a long time. It isn't the cause of this failure. I agree that it would be nice to be able to give young players a better look, especially during times of injuries, or poor play. Both Tinordi ad Beaulieu should have been given better opportunities a couple of years back. Also, Chucky should have been given more ice time at centre instead of DD ... but it isn't the cause of this latest melt-down ... it is the same situation that had us winning 9 straight.

I think the cause of this latest melt down was losing Price. This resulted in a lack of confidence throughout the system, none more than the coach. At the start of the season we played like a puck possession team, finally, after years of dump and chase. After Prices injury, we slowly reverted to dump and chase. We went from a team that held and cycle the puck in opponent's zones, and had numerous opportunities, to a team that dumped the puck, took one shot, and then the puck was cleared.

Injuries to Price, then Gallagher, the under performing by Patches, uncharacteristic mistakes by Markov all helped out to create the confidence problem that Therrien was unable to fix. So, he reverted to what he knows best: dump, chase, and grind.

Also, when a person gets frustrated/depressed, they make poor choices ... not supporting his star player is indicative of this.

The cause of our downfall was bad luck combined with an unimaginative coach. That is all. The rest is just gripping, which I happen to agree with, but not relevant to the melt down. I swear the 'journalists' just read forums and and summarize what others say. (I'm sure a lot of forum posters do the same.)

 

[Scintillating10]

This about sums it up.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...iens-made-that-lead-to-this-seasons-collapse/

Good article. Best read allyear. Only to add Bergevin rested on his laurels after the last 2 years. Adding on Kassian and Semin during off season. ouch!

 

[SOLR]

And none of them have improved under him. Subban used to play an aggressive rush style, leveling the opposition with bone crushing hits and taking the puck up the ice ala Karlsson and Doughty. Now he opts for the safe play because under Therrien, that's the only option. And before you cite their individual performances, Price and Subban do well in spite of Therrien not because of him.

Subban could not play this style for too long...his career would have been short. Both Karlsson and Doughty started playing like Subban (or the other way around), not one of them is "leveling the opposition" or taking the puck up the ice much anymore. Subban tuning out the big hits is not one of the bad thing Therrien did, it's an awful argument, moreover an intellectually dishonest one. (Therrien is bad =/ everything he did was bad) Your top D can't be your top forward for 82 games, this is no longer Orr's time, Subban-Karlsson-Doughty are keeping these flashes for important moments.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Subban could not play this style for too long...his career would have been short. Both Karlsson and Doughty started playing like Subban (or the other way around), not one of them is "leveling the opposition" or taking the puck up the ice much anymore. Subban tuning out the big hits is not one of the bad thing Therrien did, it's an awful argument, moreover an intellectually dishonest one. (Therrien is bad =/ everything he did was bad) Your top D can't be your top forward for 82 games, this is no longer Orr's time, Subban-Karlsson-Doughty are keeping these flashes for important moments.

What?

Karlsson rushes up the ice constantly, and both he and Doughty maintain their creativity. Byfuglien and Burns still hit like trucks despite your supposed theory that jst isn't in the game long term anymore. I advise you watch other teams just to see the stark difference between how we play and they do. Subban limits his capabilities because Therrien pulls crap like he did after the Colorado game, or he just insists we're a grinding team for some absurd reason.

How is intellectually dishonest? What exactly has Therrien taught anyone? He's been accused of being an awful teacher and tactician throughout his coaching career. The last four years are proof of that.

 

[swimmer77]

I'll preface this by saying I don't know much of anything about the writer other than I have heard/read his name somewhere. Having said that it just seems any writer could point out what's been pointed out over and over again.

And no mention of DD being dreadfully misplaced.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Good article. Best read allyear. Only to add Bergevin rested on his laurels after the last 2 years. Adding on Kassian and Semin during off season. ouch!

Yep.

People are quick to jump on MT but MB hasn't done anything to help the team in the offseason. At least, they could've tried Kassian and give Semin more oportunities...

MB is the guy responsible for this fiasco. It was apparent in the PLayoffs last season that we were weak up front. Then he added some washed up vets and plugs. He said he wanted the team bigger, then later in the season the Habs iced a line with Byron - DD on it (who are most likely the two smallest players in the league). I'm seriously starting to believe that MB's plan is changing on a weekly basis, probably will start from scratch after this season lol.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

So it's all Therrien's fault? Really? Nothing of the actual quality of our roster?

Of course, it's Fatso Berkshire who wrote it... Not that I'd try to discredit a guy who has a higher BF% than most of the NHL teams' CORSI and who's probably never played any kind of organized hockey in his life...

 

[Kriss E]

Hate is a strong word. Too strong in this case. When MT was employed by RDS he was just saying that PK needed to be a bit more responsible with the puck. There is not a coach in this league that enjoys watching a defensman coughing up the puck as often as PK does. Babcock didnt want him on his Olympic team for crying out loud and we all know how much the anti MT croud loves Babcock.

Actually no. Therrien constantly talked about how PK needs to be a better person and one of the first thing he does with PK is tell him to stop the triple low five with Price.
Therrien also was arguing that Cunneyworth should not break up the Patches-DD-Cole trio. It didn't matter that this trio, no matter how hot, wasn't making us win much, they needed to stick together.
AC was also talking trash on PK saying how he's immature alluding to this alleged issue with Ladouceur, how he put rap music in locker room, how he put his jersey on the floor, they were constantly bringing up ridiculous crap about PK.
They still do it today.

Babcock has nothing to do with Therrien and the Habs.

 

[Kriss E]

Babcock also sometimes played Zetterberg and Datsyuk on LW, even though the replacement Top-6 center was objectively not as good as the shifted player. Oh my God how can anyone do that??

Maybe we'll now be told that it's because Babcock went to McGill and some local madness rubbed off on him.

And how did that work for them?. Right. Thanks.