What exactly makes Calgary’s Defense elite?

[Tage2Tuch]

I don’t mind the flames, they got some pretty great d prospects in addition an amazing d core. So what’s the problem? Why did the Canucks who the flames probably could of had ten goals easily, in that second period alone on markstrom (if you watched the game you know that’s not even an exgaeration) keep finding ways to get by Smith.

I mean Calgary has had goalie issues for a long time and I’ve heard Smith has been terrific this year (only managed to watch three or four flames games and I’ve managed to catch all of his bad ones but I believe he’s good just from seeing him in ARZ)


So what’s the deal? One game, things happen but you’d think Smith wouldn’t have to be so amazing given there depth, there stars and there prospects, all on d.

I mean it’s not like the idea of having great d men to have a great is an overrated thought, the hawks and kings a few years ago, the preds and ducks when healthy all with great d play good d.

So what is with the flames? Is it the forwards?

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[ThatHighGuy]

I have always thought the media overrated our defence by quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, we have a solid D core but they are wildly inconsistent and soft. Brodie plays great one night, then plays like absolute trash the next. Same goes for Hamilton but not as bad. Also, Bartkowski should not be in our top 6, I have no clue why Gully uses him so much but he has shown time and time again that he is not NHL calibre at this point.

 

[PinkFly]

Nothing. The Flames D core isn't elite at all. It's just extremely overrated.

 

[Soundwave]

Their D is good offensively though I think even that has come back down to earth considerably now that Hartley's run n' gun style is gone. Days of Gio putting up 55+ point scoring paces are over.

Defensively, as in actually stopping people from scoring goals they are not that great. They can be good at times, but they're not some shut down D. They are also fairly soft as a D group, no one is really that afraid to go straight to the net.

 

[TwzKing]

It's a Canadian team

 

[ThatHighGuy]

Their D is good offensively though I think even that has come back down to earth considerably now that Hartley's run n' gun style is gone. Days of Gio putting up 55+ point scoring paces are over.

Defensively, as in actually stopping people from scoring goals they are not that great. They can be good at times, but they're not some shut down D. They are also fairly soft as a D group, no one is really that afraid to go straight to the net.

Exactly my thoughts. No one on the Flames D core is scary to play against. Gio is a great all around defenceman but he isn't the biggest guy. Hamonic I thought was an excellent addition and someone we needed badly but one guy isn't gonna change everything. Brodie and Hamilton are soft as butter and are fairly easy to play against in the defensive zone. There's no denying their offensive talent but they are definitely not elite in the D zone.

 

[Nick Hansen]

It's so overrated I don't wanna live in this world any more.

 

[Bgav]

No idea how Bart is in the nhl. After his Vancouver days I honestly thought is nhl career would be over that’s how bad he was

 

[JPeeper]

Before this game (I'm sure this game dropped the Flames) were 7th for goals against, which is a huge improvement over the past couple years.

Brodie is elite, Gio is elite, but overall I wouldn't say the Flames defense is elite.

Having the worst player in the NHL on the team doesn't play the defense group, obviously speaking about Bartkowski. Guy is unbelievably horrifc, plays 10-12 minutes a night and every shift he plays I feel the other team will score. Blows my mind that people are paid be a head coach and general manager and cant' see that this guy costs the Flames games.

Not sure most Flames fans would argue that the Flames defense isn't elite, most haven't said it was even before the season.

 

[Sol]

Their fan base believes by calling them elite every year will essentially make them elite. So, their fan base.

 

[A91]

Have always been good on paper and average on ice.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

They haven't had consistent success as a group, or deep playoff runs for that matter. So maybe the potential is there, but mentally i don't think they're at elite level. At the end of the day, winning games and being on the top of the league is the best way to create right habits. Without that pedigree, you can't really be elite.

They are 'only' very good until proven otherwise.

That said, they definitely don't have it easy. I feel like the Flames and the Canes are similar in a sense, both have solid dcores but the goal support is inconsistent and you can end up trying too much, knowing that the defense is the strength of the team. It's much easier to play your best when the team is balanced and you know the guys up front can turn the game in your favor at any time.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

They are pretty bad defensively and pretty soft as well. I've been saying it for years. Smith's hot play disguised it a bit for the first handful of games but he's coming back to earth and the goals are flowing in.

 

[chethejet]

Watched them vs the Pens and that is a talented group. But correct, win playoffs and run for a cup before anointing anyone the second coming.

 

[tony d]

Names on the defense could be it. Still they've under performed thus far. Be interesting to see if they can pick it up as the season goes on.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

On paper it looks good. I mean a Top 4 that has Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, and Hamonic should be good in the eyes of everyone. However, the eyes can be deceived.

 

[zeke]

I think the biggest thing is that Brodie became super overrated at some point (i.e. when he played with Gio). He's ok but not really all that great.

Giordano is by far the best part of that defense, and has made everyone who has played alongside him look better than they actually are. First Brodie and now Dougie.

And the Hamonic trade is looking like a bad move at this point. He doesn't seem to be any good at anything other than being a "warrior".

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Offensively they have been overly reigned in by Gulutzan. I am unconvinced this is a good thing. Brodie is best throwing 150 foot stretch passes and joining the rush. Giordano is best crashing the slot for snipes, and Hamilton is best option for manning the top PP unit. Without these three things you are lowering the ceiling of the team.

Defensively our RD is pretty weak. LD can't be expdcted to carry an entire side of the ice all game. Giordano/Brodie/Kulak are excellent. Hamonic/Stone not so much although they are passable in their zone, but spend too much time there due to loose gaps. Hamilton is great defensively but takes a few penalties at times.

Finally Matt Bartkowski is not an NHLer and I tbqh question how good an AHLer he is. He has no business being on roster as Wotherspoon, Andersson, Kylington, Healey, and Ollas-Mattsson are all better.

Overall though, this is an elite defense.

 

[gumgum]

name recognition and the fact that very few nhl fans actually watch them play consistently lead to that consensus. they’re good though, in the top half of the league in terms of talent for sure

 

[Baxterman]

The top 4 is right up there with top teams in the league, the bottom pairing is right there with the worst teams in the league. Gulutzan doesn't help things by overplaying the bottom pairing and especially matching them up with our very weak 4th line often.

Hamonic has been great since coming over and really helped Brodie get back to very good to excellent status. Hamilton is still great offensively and better than most think defensively. Gio is a solid vet.

As for it being "Flames fans saying they are elite" i have seen a lot more bitter fans from rivals claiming that then I have seen actual Flames fans overrating the group.

 

[sr edler]

Overrating of Flames D goes back to the Phaneuf–Bouwmeester fiasco. They had a really good D group though when they reached the finals in 04 with Leopold-Lydman-Regehr-Warrener-Ference-Montador. Not as flashy names but well composed and competent.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

You start this thread after 5 goals on 21 shots?

Lol

The defence is good. Secondary scoring is this teams problem.

 

[Deen]

It could be elite if Gulutzan wasn't such a Glutton for punishment. I swear he has a "working" relationship with Bartkowski to keep passing up giving our depth a try and putting him in all the time.

 

[zeke]

At even strength, this year plus last year:

T.J.Brodie (27): 97gms, 18:37 (B qoc), 0.78p60, 50.4cf% (-0.9rel), 48.1xgf% (-2.2rel)
Hamonic (27): 62gms, 17:37 (B+ qoc), 0.67p60, 45.0cf% (-3.5rel), 43.9xgf% (-5.6rel)


This just doesn't really look like all that good a 2nd pair, tbh.

 

[haveandare]

I think because they added a very good d-man in Hamilton around the same time Giordano was peaking and was the talk of the league. The idea that they now had a top, top d was set then and hasn't really shaken off yet.