What does the consensus think on players like Adam fox who don't sign with draft team

[MikeyMike01]

Crazy that these players do it. Even crazier that people defend it.

 

[CanadienShark]

I don't like it, but it's his call. He operated within the rules. He potentially gave up millions by waiting to sign.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

So taking this logic and running with it - I just graduated from Yale Law. I want a Big Law job with a market-beating law firm, so I apply to Kirkland & Ellis. Their home office is in Chicago, but they have offices all over the country.

If I'm dead set on working for K&E (and god bless you if you are because they are a sweatshop), and they say they don't have any positions in their NY office, but I can work out of Houston - that seems... fine?

I mean the reality is the NHL is really one employer with 31 offices despite the actual facts on the ground. And if you want to work in the NHL, they get to decide where you start your career. It doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world - and you can always simply *not* sign an ELC as a workaround (or play in Europe which the equivalent to the hypo above may be taking a job at Skadden?) until you have UFA rights.

The other elephant in the room is the team control period is probably too long by at least two years.

If Kirkland negotiated with the rest of Big Law to hold your rights you wouldn't need your YLS degree to earn enough money not to work.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I have no problem with it, but doing so to sign with a loser franchise like NYR shows poor character.

Guarantee that "loser franchise" is better than whoever you root for, lol.

 

[The Macho King]

If Kirkland negotiated with the rest of Big Law to hold your rights you wouldn't need your YLS degree to earn enough money not to work.

The comparison only makes sense if we operate under the assumption that the NHL is his employer rather than the team (which in a lot of ways - let's face that is how it works).

I mean honestly finding any sort of non-sports to draw comparisons to fall apart very quickly. There are thousands of Big Law openings a year, there are a total of what - 600 NHL jobs, of which at most 60-100 spots are there for rookies a year? There's just no comparison that works.

 

[wintersej]

College players, by virtue of being in college, are far more likely to stay all four years as opposed to CHL players who need to move onto another league after their overage season

This isn't complicated. College players are in a situation where they can simply wait out their draft status without facing any consequences

If I were an NHL team, I would rank NCAA players significantly lower than CHL players simply due to the inherent risk in drafting NCAA players

Conversely, you can get more development time for your prospects without starting the clock for their second contract if you take an NCAA player. Those NCAA players that wait are also delaying their 2nd contract, which is a con for them and a pro for the club and something you are missing.

This can be very nice for goalies and defensemen that can take more time to develop.

 

[goonybird]

dick move, but he's still a good player

 

[Mrfenn92]

It’s allowed. No one is crying when teams don’t offer contracts to drafted players.

 

[GAGLine]

For me, its personanlly a dick move, like a team is using a draft pick on you, and you literally are gifted a contract

They literally are not. Teams are not under any obligation to sign the players they draft. So why should the players be obligated to sign with those teams? The rules of the CBA only allow teams to retain the rights of a drafted player for a limited time. This is because the players have rights too. Any player who doesn't want to sign with the team that drafted them has the option to wait until those rights expire and then re-enter the draft (if they are still eligible) or become free agents.

Teams made bad picks all the time for a variety of reasons. If you don't want this to be one of those reasons, make sure the player has an interest in signing with you.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Fox did it in the best way possible too, he let the Flames brass know he had no intention to sign with them.
The Flames then found him an expendable piece that they were able to get value out of in the Lindholm trade.
He then did the same with Carolina, let them know he would return to school if they didn’t trade him to the Rangers (who he would have signed with had he went back) and they got good value in the situation they were given.

Agreed, he was completely transparent about his intentions. I'd understand if he pulled the rug out from someone, but he went about it the right way and every team was compensated.

 

[Stephen]

I see it as a complicated issue. On one hand, there is a culture of respecting the draft, pledging your loyalty to the organization that picks you and starting your pro career earnestly by following a career path that you have no choice over. etc. This is the response of most players taken in the draft.

Then you have a small handful of US college players who play out their eligibility, hit free agency and somehow engineer their way to a East Coast US big market team, and it's often the Rangers. It's definitely a unique loophole, but also feels like exercising a degree of privilege.

In short, it's a personal decision and the only victim is the team making the pick that can't secure the player.

 

[Machinehead]

As a Flames fan, I can't be mad at Fox. It's within the rules and we all knew it was a risk.

f*** Tim Erixon though, f***ing loser.

What did Erixon do that's different?

 

[zar]

It’s a dick move, but as an Oilers fan, I am happy with his decision.

I think the NHL should implement a policy that any player taken in the first 2 rounds of the NHL entry draft, where the maximum allowable contract is offered by the drafting team within 2 years of the draft owns their rights for 5 years from the draft date.

 

[SotasicA]

It also makes these goofballs who root for their team to tank and lose games even more silly. You miss the playoffs, and then your draft pick walks. How's that feel?

 

[apollo18]

i dont know the exact rules but correct me if im wrong
whats the purpose of wearing and posing for draft pictures if you basically dont want to ever play for the team
in fox case, he got his pics taken wearing flames jersey etc.
i know this sounds childish but just saying

 

[Iggys Dome]

What did Erixon do that's different?

We wasted a first rounder on that douche cause he wanted to play on daddy's team and we didn't get Lindholm and Hanifin when we traded him. When we drafted Fox we knew it was a risk he would dodge (even though it wasn't that high, at the time) and it was only a third.

 

[Vex]

Make the team that drafts a player own their rights for at least 4 yrs. Don't wanna sign than sit for 4 seasons.

You should read about Curt Flood.

This is the worst idea and absolutely asinine. They are not indentured servants.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's hard to say. How much did Calgary support Fox after the draft? Did they have good communcation?
I don't think the player owes the team much simply for drafting him, but many teams will do a lot to help develop and support a player. They go to development camps, get help from nutritionists, development coaches etc.. to get that type of help and then just walk away would definitely be a dick move.

 

[triggrman]

I see both sides.

it is weird though to want to go to a team that didn’t believe in you all along versus not signing with the one who did.

A simple solution would be to make their rights expire 6 months after their class graduation date.

 

[Peat]

I don't anything wrong with what Fox did - particularly as he made his teams aware all the time what his intentions were - but I think there would be a problem for the way the NHL is constructed if everyone was doing it.

 

[93LEAFS]

I see both sides.

it is weird though to want to go to a team that didn’t believe in you all along versus not signing with the one who did.

A simple solution would be to make their rights expire 6 months after their class graduation date.

The Rangers actually never passed on Fox. Their first pick in 2016 wasn't until 81.

 

[LakeLivin]

Whenever Fox and the draft comes up I feel like I need to post the following.

After meeting with Waddell, Fox specifically said he wasn't set on only the NYR, but that his main concern was playing right away. And when Waddell said he was confident that Fox would sign with the Canes he sure sounded sincere. Now, Fox could have been lying and Waddell could have been naive. But Carolina didn't clear out any of their right shot D by the time Fox needed to make a decision. Canes had Faulk, Hamilton, Pesce, and TVR on the roster with McKeown (still a promising prospect at that time) in the AHL. I don't see how you could make a reasonable argument that Carolina was the best fit for Fox at that time, and since he had a choice . . .

But the narrative has always been that Fox was only going to sign with the Rangers, and for a lot of people I don't think that will ever change.​

 

[LakeLivin]

I do like the idea that a team signing a "college UFA" originally drafted by a different team should compensate them with a draft pick 1 round lower than the one they used on the player.

 

[Stephen]

It's hard to say. How much did Calgary support Fox after the draft? Did they have good communcation?
I don't think the player owes the team much simply for drafting him, but many teams will do a lot to help develop and support a player. They go to development camps, get help from nutritionists, development coaches etc.. to get that type of help and then just walk away would definitely be a dick move.

It might be a bit of an "ingrate" move but in the grand scheme of things, if you have the opportunity to forge your own professional path and lifestyle choices, you don't owe a lot to an organization years of your life just because they sent you some nutritional information in an email.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Fox did it in the best way possible too, he let the Flames brass know he had no intention to sign with them.
The Flames then found him an expendable piece that they were able to get value out of in the Lindholm trade.
He then did the same with Carolina, let them know he would return to school if they didn’t trade him to the Rangers (who he would have signed with had he went back) and they got good value in the situation they were given.

The short of it is this isn't known publicly. I'd love to hear for sure what Fox or his agent told the Flames and the Canes. He PROBABLY made it known to the Flames that he was a risk to be signed, which is why the Flames traded him. At the same time, Fox did feel like a "throw in" of sorts, since at the time I think he had less value than Hamilton and Lindholm, and Hanifin was still a very promising young defenseman (and Ferland was a good middle six physical complimentary piece). A few months into the year, Waddell said he was 99% confident he could sign Fox. Not too long after the season ends, Fox then tells the team he would be playing a senior season, so we trade him to the Rangers, and he immediately plays for them. I think if Fox wanted to play for us, we would have had room for him. But that is speculation.

I'm a little miffed that we couldn't get him, but I am not that mad because he exercised his rights as a player. What is unclear is what he told the Flames and Canes management. I don't think anyone knows what happened. I'd like to think Waddell told the truth when he said 99%. But if you're the GM, suppose Fox said "**** you I won't play for the Canes, only the Rangers". You would probably lie and say you were confident you could sign Fox so as not to depress his trade value. So I am pleased at the very least that Fox didn't go public with trade demands like some other players.

As far as his career goes, I want nothing but success for Fox. He's a damn good player. I wish he were on the Canes of course, but at the same time we got good value. On one hand, I'm a little surprised that the Rangers didn't hold out more. For instance, they could have offered only a 2nd or only a 3rd. They instead offered 2 seconds (one was conditional). This was pretty good value. I think part of this may be Jeff Gorton wanting to keep things friendly, as the Rangers and Canes have made a lot of trades together over the years.

Canes have been screwed once by a similar thing when we drafted Freddie Andersen in the 7th and he refused to sign, so he re-entered the draft. Same thing would have happened with recently traded Gregory Hoffman, but his agent forgot to file the paperwork. Seriously.

We benefitted from this a single time in my memory, when Chase Priskie signed with us and not the Caps. He was decent, but not great, in the AHL, and was part of the Trocheck deal.