Post-Game Talk: What Does Scoring Feel Like? Leafs lose 4-0 to Ducks.

[gtforepro]

I definitely like the style of hockey better. Even though they lost 4-0, it didn't feel that way. Not scoring a goal in 2 games sucks, but goes to show that Kessel et al. put up numbers by cherry-picking.

I'm really curious to see the results once they're done this road-trip from hell. And I'm starting to really like Horacek...maybe he ends up being the guy?

And, please, trade out the cherry-picking floaters and build a team around this new style of play. Let's hope for a goal tonight...maybe 2 even.

 

[gtforepro]

I missed most of this game. Only saw the last few of the second and half the third. Looked like they were pinned in their own zone the entire time, yet the shots were close to even.

How was the rest of the game? Was it like the Kings game where everyone said they played well despite being outscored by infinity percent?

Infinity percent made me laugh. I shut it down after 2, but the game felt even other than the score.

 

[Rufio65*]

Nothing else needs to be said really.

And The Leafs can't score so that doesn't matter. I realize that it's a tough concept for "stat guys" to understand but.. The only thing that matters is the scoreboard.

Coaches aren't miracle workers, this roster needs a major overhaul.

 

[exporta]

So if winning by being out shot was unsustainable, is losing by out shooting the opponent?

I kind of want the Carlyle Leafs back. As soon as it was 2-0, I knew the game was over. With Carlyle's squad, you at least thought there was a chance they'd get a break.

 

[Ratboy]

cox said something interesting on the radio yesterday. don't shoot the messenger.

he said that perhaps carlyle thought with the players and skill sets available the only way this team had a chance to win was to let them run and gun. its possible these guys have to cheat to put up good offensive numbers.

he could be right!

 

[agropop]

Hilarious guys throwing tantrums as if this game was the moment they discovered we stink.

We were a tire fire before the season started.

 

[Rufio65*]

I really don't understand posts like this.

The leafs have been the disgrace of the entire league... if not the entire world... for the past 10 years.
And the leafs are pretty much just as popular as ever.

Well said.

 

[exporta]

So if winning by being out shot was unsustainable, is losing by out shooting the opponent?

I kind of want the Carlyle Leafs back. As soon as it was 2-0, I knew the game was over. With Carlyle's squad, you at least thought there was a chance they'd get a break.

 

[Kurisu]

cox said something interesting on the radio yesterday. don't shoot the messenger.

he said that perhaps carlyle thought with the players and skill sets available the only way this team had a chance to win was to let them run and gun. its possible these guys have to cheat to put up good offensive numbers.

he could be right!

It's been 4 games. Leafs have been run and gunning for a long time now, and they're being asked to change alot of things systematically, it's gonna take a while to sort things out.

Leaf fans proving they have no patience.

 

[Mess]

This team is one month ahead of last year's implosion. Can safely say last year's team was better.

Shanahan, Dubas, The Analytics dept. All the new hires, this team is worse today than last year. A scary thought.

Not statistically.

2013-14 @ 44 games .. 21-18-5 = 47 points

verses

2014-15 @ 44 games .. 22-19-3 = 47 points

Leafs are trending right along the same path as last season.

 

[Ratboy]

It's been 4 games. Leafs have been run and gunning for a long time now, and they're being asked to change alot of things systematically, it's gonna take a while to sort things out.

Leaf fans proving they have no patience.

47 years of patience

 

[Trapper]

With the right players, Horachek has put in a system that maintains success over 82 games and eliminates the collapse. Underlying stats are trending in the right direction. GA are still a problem because even with the system players aren't good enough. Shooting % and GF have gone way down. This is a style of play that should lead to a new culture.
With the right players.
We will see how long those players who just want to rush (or run and gun) respond to not scoring.

 

[YOYOTCROSTER*]

Changes in Personnel Required

Leafs playing more organized defensive hockey
5guys down low helps reduce shots to 20 or so
Floaters can't get open for fast break rush chances so forecheck and cycling much more important in this system
Leafs personnel up frnt not physically aligned to that game style so changes are required to play this style
Leafs requre bigger bodies like kngs and ducks to win this type of game
Also need goalie to beat other teams goalie
Last 2 games Leafs got out goalied by Jones and Andersson

 

[GoonieFace]

This is absolutely hilarious. So the Leafs are over .500 and in a wild card spot playing under Carlyle. They were winning most games they had no business winning, but they were winning, Perhaps Carlyle coached the way he coached due the personnel he had to work with.

Now Horachek comes in, we are 1-3 and have scored 7 goals (1 empty netter), and have been shut out twice. So we have let about 10-15 less shots per game, which is great, but at what cost? Seems like at the cost of scoring goals, which last time I checked was crucial to win games.

Apparently, based on the comments on here, this is great. The fact remains, they do not have the core talent on this team to get it done, no matter what the system.

Please continue to lose and faceplant in style Leafs, burn it down Shanahan. Lets rebuild this team properly.

 

[Trapper]

This is absolutely hilarious. So the Leafs are over .500 and in a wild card spot playing under Carlyle. They were winning most games they had no business winning, but they were winning, Perhaps Carlyle coached the way he coached due the personnel he had to work with.

Now Horachek comes in, we are 1-3 and have scored 7 goals (1 empty netter), and have been shut out twice. So we have let about 10-15 less shots per game, which is great, but at what cost? Seems like at the cost of scoring goals, which last time I checked was crucial to win games.

Apparently, based on the comments on here, this is great. The fact remains, they do not have the core talent on this team to get it done, no matter what the system.

Please continue to lose and faceplant in style Leafs, burn it down Shanahan. Lets rebuild this team properly.

The Leafs main guys need to play the rush to be successful. However under Ron and Randy, this style leads to collapse every year.
Under Horachek the system is better, the players are not. 40 games will tell who is suited for this system.
When possesion goes up and shots go down but you still give up to many goals and don't engage or win battles, what's left to change after 6 years?

 

[Pookie]

My common sense spreadsheet tells me that giving up fewer scoring chances while reducing your own scoring chances means nothing.

 

[ToneBone03]

I can't remember the last time I said this: we're losing games we deserve to win. This style of play is much more sustainable than the run-and-gun/cheating to the offensive side style we were playing before. Anyone that watched that game would know that we had a plethora of good chances - we just never buried them. Andersen was a machine tonight.

We'll start winning soon.

 

[rustysvetz]

cox said something interesting on the radio yesterday. don't shoot the messenger.

he said that perhaps carlyle thought with the players and skill sets available the only way this team had a chance to win was to let them run and gun. its possible these guys have to cheat to put up good offensive numbers.

he could be right!

I said the same thing when Maurice was being vilified before the savior (Carlyle at the time) took over. Have to work with the talent you have and maximize their best qualities to get the most out of them.

I think there is some truth to it.

 

[Mess]

I can't remember the last time I said this: we're losing games we deserve to win. This style of play is much more sustainable than the run-and-gun/cheating to the offensive side style we were playing before. Anyone that watched that game would know that we had a plethora of good chances - we just never buried them. Andersen was a machine tonight.

We'll start winning soon.

Pick 1: Winning or Losing
Pick 1: Right way or Wrong way

Our Leafs have gone from winning the wrong way to losing the right way, so now they just need to figure out how to play winning the right way style.

So progress is being made and we just need to pick a different combo of available outcomes and options.

 

[Yosho]

As many of you have stated, this is a great system that can absolutely be sustainable. The beautiful part is that it really shines a light on the major deficiencies up front - the players that we rely on to score can't score unless they're cheating or playing recklessly.

It's up to management to find guys that can score in this type of system.

 

[Rogie]

Lol only in Toronto are people more satisfied with ****ing corsi then the end result. Personally I would blow the whole team up and start from scratch. At the end of the day it's the same final result. Delusional ****ing leaf fans.

It is NOT so much than I care more about Corsi than the end result. But, what is the end result? What has our end result been in the last how many years. End result = end of year right? Did we win the cup? Did we make the playoffs? Those are the major parts of 'end result' - aren't they? It's not about every game. Nobody wins every game. If you don't play a decent game or play the game the right way, meaning, some sort of system or discipline and consistency (the things we've been lacking), then, really, does ONE game matter.

You want to talk about end result. Okay, the Kings have won 2 cups in the last 4 years, but, they've lost lots of games along the way - hell, they don't score anywhere near our Leafs do. But, those are results. They've had results. They've been the best possession team in hockey or one of the best possession teams over the last same number of years.

You think Daryl Sutter cares as much about the win or loss record of the game and not about how they play - their process? Sorry, I don't. I don't think he does - why? Because, that team plays for the process and for the 'right' way to play every game of the season. That's how they get the results at the end! I can see him taking strips out of the players after a game they won if they were out-shot or dominated in terms of puck possession or if they played poor defensively.

RC has, it seems, has been putting results ahead of or before the process and what have the results been so far? The results have been disastrous. Do you really want to argue - after just 4 games under this coach and a better looking system - about results already?

Then end result is more than the score at the end of ONE GAME, or the end of 4 games. The end result is how well they can play AND if they make the playoffs, how many rounds they can win, and can they do it all.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

I can't shake the feeling that the new and improved system will only make it easier for this roster to finish 10th in the east. Seems like the players will always take their foot off the gas at the first sign of improvement.

I challenge anybody to be more cynical than me.

 

[JoeyBeans]

So now who do we fire? Clearly it was Randys fault, I mean after all he was the one lacing up the skates not getting shots on net.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Pick 1: Winning or Losing
Pick 1: Right way or Wrong way

Our Leafs have gone from winning the wrong way to losing the right way, so now they just need to figure out how to play winning the right way style.

So progress is being made and we just need to pick a different combo of available outcomes and options.

They weren't winning the wrong way. In fact, they were barely winning at all.

 

[GoonieFace]

I said the same thing when Maurice was being vilified before the savior (Carlyle at the time) took over. Have to work with the talent you have and maximize their best qualities to get the most out of them.

I think there is some truth to it.

This is 100% true. This would be like having Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Jerry Rice and Antonio Gates on your team, your running back is Refrigerator Perry and you only run the ball.

The current roster is built to score and not defend. They have arguably 1 defenceman that is suited to a shutdown type game (Polak), while the rest are more suited to an up tempo game. Phaneuf can do neither particularly well.

Fact is, the core needs to be changed, and than perhaps a system like this may actually work.