Post-Game Talk: What Does Scoring Feel Like? Leafs lose 4-0 to Ducks.

[Morbo]

In my wildest of wild dreams, we SOMEHOW slip to 5th or 6th.

Win the lottery and draft McDavid or Eichel.

What a feeling that would be. I think it's finally time us Leaf fans had a young player to get REALLY excited about.

Not Kadri or Rielly excited, I'm talking phenom/franchise/generational talent excited.

I mean we have to get a ****ing break here sooner or later, right?

....right?

 

[Daisy Jane]

to quote a friend

There's two things this particular fanbase isn't ready for. Losing for a rebuild, and losing because of a rebuild.

so the team is losing right now, and is sliding from 12th to _____? which is ultimately a good thing. Everyone right now has their pound of flesh of whom they don't like. they blame X player or Y player. Not. performing. well. means

A: the player will be moved and
B: we get a good draft pick

all these sticks and stones and pot shots being thrown because it's not happening fast enough or the way you particularly want it to happen so far, is just nuts, and it's getting so tiring. can we just hold on on finding the sackcloth and ashes until there's a particular reason to wear it?

honestly some of the things stated is just making me shake my head because it's just craziness.

 

[ironhorse384]

Is this the Kessel that cheats or the new Kessel that is trying to play better defence?

We have never seen the new Kessel try to play a 2 way game. Early returns are he looks far less dangerous and he has only 2 points in 4 games.

This is why when you see Kopitar's points totals under a Defensive team like LA, you appreciate him more. If Kopitar paid attention to defence like Kessel had the past 3 seasons, you think he would have more points? Fortunately most here know, hockey is more than just individual points.

Kopitar wasn't always like that he bought in to the team first concept.

 

[binop7]

to quote a friend

There's two things this particular fanbase isn't ready for. Losing for a rebuild, and losing because of a rebuild.

so the team is losing right now, and is sliding from 12th to _____? which is ultimately a good thing. Everyone right now has their pound of flesh of whom they don't like. they blame X player or Y player. Not. performing. well. means

A: the player will be moved and
B: we get a good draft pick

all these sticks and stones and pot shots being thrown because it's not happening fast enough or the way you particularly want it to happen so far, is just nuts, and it's getting so tiring. can we just hold on on finding the sackcloth and ashes until there's a particular reason to wear it?

honestly some of the things stated is just making me shake my head because it's just craziness.

The ACC is packed every single game and we made the playoffs once since 2004. This fan base can handle a proper rebuild. Not one where we suck but don't have picks. Like Burke

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Let's all admit BURKE screwed us hard. I will never forgive him. It's time to tear it all down and reevaluate our core. I'd keep Kadri though.

 

[Crispy Crust]

The best teams draft the best players. This is what I am trying to tell you.

There is a reason why Kessel slipped down to 5 with all his talent. He's one of the best scorers, but he is not one of the best players in the NHL. Just give you 2 examples, he is not better than Kopitar or Toews and he has out pointed them the past 3 seasons.

There is a difference of best player, and best scorer.

The draft is a complete hit or miss. You quoted a guy saying this "the Leafs will probably **** up their pick". You brought up Kessel as an example of the type of player that would make a selection poor. The fact of the matter is, Kessel is an elite offensive force and one of the top RW in the game. You will find no shortage of suitors for a guy like that, and get a nice return for him if you wanted to move him.

 

[New User Name]

It really does suck being a Leafs fan.

As a fan it sucks actually wanting this team to lose ONLY because it's the only proper way to build a consistent contender. Then to see them year after year be just good enough to not have a great draft position but not bad enough to get a top 3 pick. (other than the year it was traded away)

 

[HellasLEAF]

#TankNation is strong! Keep losing.

I really fought it this year, because the draft is deep, but I'm now firmly with tank nation.

I hope we play well and improve, but keep the losses coming.

With our games played, we can definitely drop a few spots pretty quick.

 

[diceman934]

He's more than half the player Toews is . He drastically outscores him on a significantly worse team, and a better supporting cast. I get hd plays good defence but Toews is no hockey god here.

My god Toews is so much better it is not even close...

5 points difference this year....that is not drastic....then there is this little thing called goals for and goals against...

Toews career stats:
527 208 270 478 156 plus /minus

Kessel career stats:

629 241 261 502 -49

So in 100 less games Toews has only 24 points less and only 33 goals less, and has 9 more assists. PPG is Kessel .79 Toews PPG .90

So Toews is better in every way.....goals, assists, points...never mind real hockey stats....look at the plus minus difference it is obscene.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I mean we have to get a ****ing break here sooner or later, right?

....right?

right.

well here is how it looks like right now


Edmonton
Buffalo
Carolina
Arizona

there's your top four right there.


next bracket is:

Columbus - 1 more game with them
New Jersey - 2 more games with them
Philadelphia - 1 more game with them
Minnesota
Ottawa (4 more games with them)

then we have
Colorado
Dallas
Toronto
Calgary


Columbus is getting healthier, so i can see them moving up.
i have no idea what's going on with Philly and Minnesota, so who knows
Dallas has a gong-show defense, but they are only 2 points behind us. Ditto, Colorado. Calgary can slide

the mere fact that we haven't finished our season series vs.

Montreal
Tampa
Philly
Ottawa
New Jersey
Carolina (who owns. us)
Buffalo (see carolina)
Columbus

it could get really, really, ugly. some key losses to certain teams, and we could see ourselves in the 6-10 bracket.

 

[binop7]

We gotta shed some salary too. So close to the cap yet such a crappy team

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

I really fought it this year, because the draft is deep, but I'm now firmly with tank nation.

I hope we play well and improve, but keep the losses coming.

With out games played, we can definitely drop a few spots pretty quick.

Umm...we're not gonna improve. This core is tainted right down to the core. It's time to stock pile on picks and trade Kessel. We can't just put up with this and things will get better. It won't.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The draft is a complete hit or miss. You quoted a guy saying this "the Leafs will probably **** up their pick". You brought up Kessel as an example of the type of player that would make a selection poor. The fact of the matter is, Kessel is an elite offensive force and one of the top RW in the game. You will find no shortage of suitors for a guy like that, and get a nice return for him if you wanted to move him.

Let's use a real life example. Back in the 2006 draft, Kessel was supposed to go #1 overall because as you said, he was an elite offensive force. He went #5. You know who went #3 in that draft? Jonathan Toews. Chicago knows there is more to hockey than being a one dimensional offensive player.

If the Leafs are in the same situation of picking a Kessel like player in this summer's draft, I hope they learn like Chicago did and wisely so, 2 Cups later. If there is Toews like player available.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

We gotta shed some salary too. So close to the cap yet such a crappy team

Agreed. Send Bozie & Lupes packing. DC & Phanny will probably stay.

 

[Einzakin]

I think tonight really showed how our players are when they can't cheat for goals. I thought Gardiner was our best player tonight

 

[senor martinez]

Yeah LOL I told you and wrote it down we would be not be scoring in another 80minutes...... at least they wasn't saying now like: "We'll take it" anymore......

What a horrible team and organization right now. Makes some trades fast.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Let's hope for another shut out. The worse it gets, the trade baiting will commence. It's time to start selling.

 

[ironhorse384]

Let's use a real life example. Back in the 2006 draft, Kessel was supposed to go #1 overall because as you said, he was an elite offensive force. He went #5. You know who went #3 in that draft? Jonathan Toews. Chicago knows there is more to hockey than being a one dimensional offensive player.

If the Leafs are in the same situation of picking a Kessel like player in this summer's draft, I hope they learn like Chicago did and wisely so, 2 Cups later. If there is Toews like player available.

Ya and they were a **** team for 10yrs that's why they got those high picks. Then in a blink of an eye they go from a non playoff team to a conference final, then win a cup the following year and finally a perennial cup contender with another cup mixed in there. Its funny how building through the draft works, its a shame the leafs never give that a try.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Leafs let this guy score a hat trick.

 

[kihei]

Let's use a real life example. Back in the 2006 draft, Kessel was supposed to go #1 overall because as you said, he was an elite offensive force. He went #5. You know who went #3 in that draft? Jonathan Toews. Chicago knows there is more to hockey than being a one dimensional offensive player.

If the Leafs are in the same situation of picking a Kessel like player in this summer's draft, I hope they learn like Chicago did and wisely so, 2 Cups later. If there is Toews like player available.

Who didn't have EJ at the top of their list in 2006?

 

[Liminality]

to quote a friend

There's two things this particular fanbase isn't ready for. Losing for a rebuild, and losing because of a rebuild.

so the team is losing right now, and is sliding from 12th to _____? which is ultimately a good thing. Everyone right now has their pound of flesh of whom they don't like. they blame X player or Y player. Not. performing. well. means

A: the player will be moved and
B: we get a good draft pick

all these sticks and stones and pot shots being thrown because it's not happening fast enough or the way you particularly want it to happen so far, is just nuts, and it's getting so tiring. can we just hold on on finding the sackcloth and ashes until there's a particular reason to wear it?

honestly some of the things stated is just making me shake my head because it's just craziness.

People say they're ready for a rebuild and there are lots of people who are bashing the young guys on the Leafs already. Kadri at 24 is getting bashed 24/7 and has been for the past couple of years. I've seen Rielly who's 20 getting called out in his sophomore year in his 2nd year in the NHL. Nylander isn't even in the NHL right now and he's getting bashed everyday. Gauthier is getting further in his development and is a lightning rod for some posters. It just gets insane the amount of hate these young guys have.

The fans who yell for rebuilding and patience and then turn on the young players the moment they show some weakness is going to be a huge problem if a full rebuild happens. Going to have to draft some really mentally tough players just because of the insane fans and media here.

Even if the Leafs get a top 5 pick and a good player, it's going to take a couple years to get this ship right. Not sure if Toronto can handle that to be honest, for sure a couple posters on here won't be able to.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Most of you guys are just hilarious.

Yep, we started to play better defensively on the night we gave up 4 goals.

pure gold

 

[Daisy Jane]

People say they're ready for a rebuild and there are lots of people who are bashing the young guys on the Leafs already. Kadri at 24 is getting bashed 24/7 and has been for the past couple of years. I've seen Rielly who's 20 getting called out in his sophomore year in his 2nd year in the NHL. Nylander isn't even in the NHL right now and he's getting bashed everyday. Gauthier is getting further in his development and is a lightning rod for some posters. It just gets insane the amount of hate these young guys have.

The fans who yell for rebuilding and patience and then turn on the young players the moment they show some weakness is going to be a huge problem if a full rebuild happens. Going to have to draft some really mentally tough players just because of the insane fans and media here.

Even if the Leafs get a top 5 pick and a good player, it's going to take a couple years to get this ship right. Not sure if Toronto can handle that to be honest, for sure a couple posters on here won't be able to.

well that's the thing - and it's just making me mystified why people are all "OH MY GOD THEY SUCK!" or they expect to somehow win like all the games, but still draft high.

Duh. we know that. they also have bad contracts and will be difficult to move out and unless people want to dress a line up of 18 - 23 year olds, and throw them out there, then be mad that they aren't winning too (see, Edmonton). just. sit back and enjoy the slide.

We can not rebuild unless we're not good enough. Quite frankly -despite the wailing and gnawing of teeth -you can get really good quality talent past the top 10. Anze Koptiar was drafted 11th (and his was not the "deepest" of drafts). I am not even going to reference anyone in 2003, simply because unless the league shuts down for an entire year, I doubt very much that draft and the depth of it can't be replicated. But look throughout the league of players who make signfificant impacts, and can do it without drafting in the top 10.

that (I think) is our goal this year (unless we really bottom out).

and then we're going to have to wait 3-4 years for them to be ready. Another 2 to be a (Healthy) Columbus, or a Minnesota or a Colorado, or a Dallas -but hopefully with a better grasp on defense, if we're going to reference COL or DAL.. maybe another 2 or 3 to really start doing what Montreal is doing.

Now. things can obviously be expedited, with smart signings, and proper support. and the benefit that we're in the east. the fact that people aren't doing what you (not you, but the collective you), want today doesn't mean things aren't happening behind the scenes.

i've been saying this i feel since April. the last time we were at this cross roads, the people in charged, rushed in and said "I can fix it!!" and we're left with this. (and quite frankly, it doesn't matter if Burke wouldn't have signed Clarkson, or he would have moved Kessel or whatever. collectively, his actions and decisions, rushed the process a lot, and every move he would have made would have been in regards to fixing that. the new people in charge, have to untangle the mess the old regime created, and now it's "well everything they're doing is over-rated, or too slow or whatever."

 

[Nithoniniel]

This was one of those games where the shot count lies. It was a very one-sided affair in terms of scoring chances, and Anaheim seemed to have the game in their hand after those first 10 minutes where we looked rather good.

 

[weems]

The draft is a crapshoot. It's all luck based. If you draft a Phil Kessel, you should be ecstatic.

To say the draft is all luck based is hilarious.

Are you honestly trying to say some teams dont have better amateur talent evaluators than others?

In every single job in the entire world some companies have superior employess compared to a competing rival.

There definitely IS luck involved in the draft or any pro sports draft but to try and claim its all luck based is laughable.