OT: What do you do for work and/or school?

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
All good ideas. I'm not that smart, though. School was never my thing. Always had trouble learning things when I forced to learn them. Reading when I was forced to read, etc... Need to motivate myself to get anything done.



I believe on the list of most HFNYR members' nightmares, this is #1 :laugh:

Motivation has nothing to do with being smart. One of the toughest classes at possibly the top Analytics schools in the country was Marketing Analytics where we used R to solve Marketing Analytics problems. You learned R yourself. You're plenty smart.

Also, I don't think the ideas I suggested all require an MBA.
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
I would advise against going back to school full-time for an MBA or other graduate degree unless you know for certain the degree is the difference between getting that job you want or not. And more often than people realize, it is just not. Degrees are expensive and don't forget about the opportunity cost of not earning income for year or two. I've seen too many people not happy with their careers drop everything to go back to school without really doing a meaningful cost-benefit analysis on it. Arguably 10% of my law school class. It was sad to see.

You know what? That's where I'm at right now to a certain extent. I'm kind of lost about what I want to do. I'm barely getting any interviews and one that I got I asked for $35K below average for my school and was told "it's on the higher range". I had to listen to a recruiter basically tell me that in her field (and sort of the field I was looking at) my degree is almost worthless. I'm very down on my degree. Also a lot of people I know from my class when I met them in orientation had ZERO clue what they wanted to do. Now everyone pretends they're happy. I don't know, maybe they are. That said it's an option. Could be a good option. I was making ****** money pre-MBA. So I'll make much better money than I did most likely when I get my job. Whether it'll be on par with an MBA from my school we'll see.
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
All good ideas. I'm not that smart, though. School was never my thing. Always had trouble learning things when I forced to learn them. Reading when I was forced to read, etc... Need to motivate myself to get anything done.



I believe on the list of most HFNYR members' nightmares, this is #1 :laugh:

Also, there are a ton of web analytics jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Or digital marketing. I wish I had digital experience. There is absolutely no reason anyone over the age of 24 should ever work for an agency. (Note: I worked at an agency through 27). You're smart, good at numbers. You should go work for some capacity of digital for a Fortune 500 company. I even saw an opening for web analytics with Morgan Stanley. Digital is the present and the future.
 

silverfish

got perma'd
Jun 24, 2008
34,644
4,353
under the bridge
Motivation has nothing to do with being smart. One of the toughest classes at possibly the top Analytics schools in the country was Marketing Analytics where we used R to solve Marketing Analytics problems. You learned R yourself. You're plenty smart.

Also, I don't think the ideas I suggested all require an MBA.

Also, there are a ton of web analytics jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Or digital marketing. I wish I had digital experience. There is absolutely no reason anyone over the age of 24 should ever work for an agency. (Note: I worked at an agency through 27). You're smart, good at numbers. You should go work for some capacity of digital for a Fortune 500 company. I even saw an opening for web analytics with Morgan Stanley. Digital is the present and the future.

Can I hire you to just walk around with me all day and say nice things?

I also got my first agency job when I was 24 (well, 23 closer to 24) :laugh:
 
Last edited:

Raspewtin

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
May 30, 2013
42,963
18,380
I'm aiming to start training for Investment Banking once I come out of college. I have had 3 internships and have done (will have done) some prestigious programs through my school and think I have an ok resume. Any advice as to where I can start? I'm finishing my MBA these coming two semesters and have no CFA certification.
 

HatTrick Swayze

Just Be Nice
Jun 16, 2006
16,929
9,949
Chicago
I'm aiming to start training for Investment Banking once I come out of college. I have had 3 internships and have done (will have done) some prestigious programs through my school and think I have an ok resume. Any advice as to where I can start? I'm finishing my MBA these coming two semesters and have no CFA certification.

I am not in banking but have friends in the field. From what I understand CFA is nice (as it shows you are intelligent and able to handle the rigors of preparing for the exams) but necessarily a requirement as your focus in most areas of banking is a bit different. Think accounting/valuation/modeling of companies / business lines vs in detail securities analysis at an extremely basic level. Again though if you have the time and aptitude it isn't a bad thing. Just passing one exam and having it one your resume could be a boost.

But ultimately breaking in to banking is almost exclusively networking. Which is why the time needed to complete the CFA could really be better spent. Getting an Associate role post MBA is one of the most well-worn career paths but still requires months upon months of "kissing the ring." The best way to get started on this is connect with alums from your school and ask them to connect to to future alums, etc etc for coffee.

At least, that is my understanding of the process.
 

HatTrick Swayze

Just Be Nice
Jun 16, 2006
16,929
9,949
Chicago
Silverfish, another option for you could be a Data Science bootcamp like those offered by Metis.

I actually was thinking about doing one in conjunction with my MBA. With your skills and expereince I'm sure you would be able to stand out and be a star. Relatively low investment (vs a grad degree) and pretty good placement stats.

It could be a new way to learn a little, stand out, and get pipelined to an analytics field you are more excited about. Plus the value of time...can't be understated. No resume gap but plenty of time to network with recruiters looking for data science professionals.
 

UAGoalieGuy

Registered User
Dec 29, 2005
16,264
4,265
Richmond, VA
Any tips for a college student interested in finance and investment banking? Anything will help

My suggestion would be to go into compliance. No sales pressure and it's a continously growing field with ever changing regulations.

Money is a bit less (bonus wise) but I make a good living with more career growth ahead.


Its what I did :).
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
I am not in banking but have friends in the field. From what I understand CFA is nice (as it shows you are intelligent and able to handle the rigors of preparing for the exams) but necessarily a requirement as your focus in most areas of banking is a bit different. Think accounting/valuation/modeling of companies / business lines vs in detail securities analysis at an extremely basic level. Again though if you have the time and aptitude it isn't a bad thing. Just passing one exam and having it one your resume could be a boost.

But ultimately breaking in to banking is almost exclusively networking. Which is why the time needed to complete the CFA could really be better spent. Getting an Associate role post MBA is one of the most well-worn career paths but still requires months upon months of "kissing the ring." The best way to get started on this is connect with alums from your school and ask them to connect to to future alums, etc etc for coffee.

At least, that is my understanding of the process.

Yep, you explained it better than I would have.

In our school for a couple of months every Friday people took a car, bus, or plane to New York from Pittsburgh to go through rounds of networking which in my understand are informal interviews where you're asked technical questions and why banking. "Why banking?" is a more important question than "why corporate finance?" or "why brand management?" because you won't have a 9-5 job and they want to know you'd be willing to commit to 100 hour work weeks. I think CFA is more for the investment side of things though I'm not 100% sure. It would also help if your MBA is top 20ish and respected in banking and your school is a target school for banking. It sounds like you went straight from undergrad to your MBA. If that's the case it sounds like chances are it's not a target school as most top MBAs have incredibly few people go straight from undergrad to MBA (we had 2 out of over 200). Correct me if I'm wrong though. I don't think it's impossible though, just harder. If you'd like I can connect you to a few bankers that I'm friends with from Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, and Bank of America. I also know one who will be a boutique bank. There are others but I can't think of any. My school was not a target school for banking so you may get some value from that because it sounds like yours might not be either.

Another thing that I thought of, all of this networking was done during year 1 of the MBA. People networked and then got internships for the summer between years 1 and 2, proved their worth in those internships and hoped for a full time offer. You sound like you're in your final year in the MBA. All of my experience was for associate roles. But still may have a problem, honestly due to timing.
 

silverfish

got perma'd
Jun 24, 2008
34,644
4,353
under the bridge
Silverfish, another option for you could be a Data Science bootcamp like those offered by Metis.

I actually was thinking about doing one in conjunction with my MBA. With your skills and expereince I'm sure you would be able to stand out and be a star. Relatively low investment (vs a grad degree) and pretty good placement stats.

It could be a new way to learn a little, stand out, and get pipelined to an analytics field you are more excited about. Plus the value of time...can't be understated. No resume gap but plenty of time to network with recruiters looking for data science professionals.

Another interesting tip. I know something like this would give you access to the network and maybe even jobs, but there are just so many free resources out there to at least start learning with that I'm planning on exhausting before dumping any money in here.

I'll be reaching a critical juncture in about a month in regards to my career and future. Going to see how that plays out, and evaluate as necessary.
 

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
I'm aiming to start training for Investment Banking once I come out of college. I have had 3 internships and have done (will have done) some prestigious programs through my school and think I have an ok resume. Any advice as to where I can start? I'm finishing my MBA these coming two semesters and have no CFA certification.
Be prepared for some late nights. Very late.

Seriously, to get started, the CFA is not required for I banking. What does help is where you graduated from and where you came out from in B school. That is the one place in finance that holds to where you attend school mattering as much as what your GPA was.

Still, the CFA is not a bad thing. Mostly it helps in your post banking career, especially for an analyst. When I say it helps, I mean that it will make you look better. Not that you will use what you learned from it very much (aside from the scientific calculator). Sort of like a CPA for accountants. Helps to differentiate you, but the work that you do will hardly touch what was tested on.

Utilize the relationships that you done as an intern (hopefully at a bank itself). Who you know is just as important as what you know. At least in that field.
 

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
All good ideas. I'm not that smart, though. School was never my thing. Always had trouble learning things when I forced to learn them. Reading when I was forced to read, etc... Need to motivate myself to get anything done.
I find that book smarts (like how your grades were) has little to do with whether or not, you can have a successful career. Whenever I interviewed people, I have never asked what their GPA was or what their SAT scores were. If you are serious about your career, then you will do what you need to do. Everyone wants to do well, but the steps in getting there can be long. It is a journey, my friend. And it all starts with the first step. Once you decide you want something, it becomes a matter of doing things that are necessary to get there.

However, I will warn that I do not really know where "there" is. Often you get "there" and then see that there is quite more that can be done and accomplished.
 

Vinny DeAngelo

Jimmy Easy to defend
Mar 17, 2014
13,983
4,573
florida
I find that book smarts (like how your grades were) has little to do with whether or not, you can have a successful career. Whenever I interviewed people, I have never asked what their GPA was or what their SAT scores were. If you are serious about your career, then you will do what you need to do. Everyone wants to do well, but the steps in getting there can be long. It is a journey, my friend. And it all starts with the first step. Once you decide you want something, it becomes a matter of doing things that are necessary to get there.

However, I will warn that I do not really know where "there" is. Often you get "there" and then see that there is quite more that can be done and accomplished.

You hiring? Lol
 

patnyrnyg

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
10,877
890
Any tips for a college student interested in finance and investment banking? Anything will help

I'm going to sound negative, but would rather give it to you straight. If you are talking about the big paying investment banking jobs, then your best bet is to go to grad school and only if you get into one of the top-10 MBA programs. Schools like Columbia, Penn, Cornell, U of Chicago, NYU, Harvard to name a few. Getting an MBA from Hofstra, St Johns, or Fordham is not going to get you an interview for one of the big paying IB jobs. For the jobs you are likely referring, the companies hold events at the big schools and they are not going to talk to you unless you go to one. I'm sorry if I am being negative, just want you to know what the truth.

You CAN get a job as an analyst out of undergrad, but you really need to have connections and be from a top school. A friend of mine from HS was able to get a job right out of college. He graduated Johns Hopkins with a 3.5 and someone with whom he played football at Hopkins got him in. As someone said, he worked LONG hours. I don't speak to him often anymore, so not sure he ever went on to get his MBA.

My old roommate did it a little different. He graduated Cornell Suma *** Laude in Computer Science. Worked for 3 years, then decided he wanted to go for his MBA and get into investment banking. He applied to all of the top b-schools. Had a very high GMAT. Only place that accepted him was Columbia. He even had a strong connection to U of Chicago and the admission officer told the connection to have him apply in 2 more years. Got the same feedback from NYU and Penn. So, it is a catch-22 in that case. Can't get the big job without a top-MBA, but the programs won't accept you right out of college.

My brother is currently at NYU for his MBA. However, he graduated from Binghamton, and while in undergrad went to OCS. Was in the Marines as a Lt, and Captain for about 5 or 6 years after graduation. Did 2 tours in Afghanistan. Last summer he had an internship with a large bank, doing something with Energy. At the end of the summer, they extended him an offer for this summer. He is hoping at the end of this summer to get a full-time offer for after he graduates in May.

Few things to keep in mind, after starting at NYU, the application process for summer jobs starts pretty quickly. Last October, only 2 months into the program he was applying and being invited to events. Most of the events involve open bar or people from the company taking you out and throwing their cc on the bar. He was always careful not to get too hammered. Others were not so careful and soon after received letters saying they will not be offered positions. At the first event, he noticed one of the hosts kept walking away and talking into his phone. Yes, by the end of the night this host was wasted. What he later found out was the host was sending emails and texts to himself taking notes on the recruits. One of his fellow recruits kept asking one of the hosts if they had any coke, needless to say he was not extended an offer. Another recruit suggested they all go to the strip club since the companies were paying for it, he wasn't given an offer. Over the winter, a few guys from the company took him and 4 other guys who have been given offers to this company for this summer to a Knicks game with 2 big money clients. My brother could not care less about basketball or the Knicks, but still played along. The 2 clients were HUGE Knicks fans, so my brother cheered for the Knicks as if he was, as well. So did the other recruits. They all still had their jobs for this summer.

The point, these events are NOT done by companies as a way to RECRUIT you. They are not doing it to be nice or show you how wonderful they are. They KNOW they hold the cards. Yes, they need to constantly fill positions with talented people, but there is more to it then knowing how to read a balance sheet or how to calculate a P/E ratio. However, there are THOUSANDS of people qualified to just do the job on paper and thousands willing to work the long hours that are required. It is done to TEST you and it is part of the hiring process.
 

patnyrnyg

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
10,877
890
Another story related to the open bar events I discussed above. For the younger guys looking to start careers, BE CAREFUL WITH WHAT YOU SAY AND TO WHOM YOU SAY IT. Sounds simple enough. About 25 years ago, a friend of mine had applied for a job with the MTA. I want to say it was with the MTA Police, but I am not 100% sure. Well, not exactly my friend but my mother's friend's son. He is about 6 or 7 years older, but we would hang out on occassion when my parents invited his parents over and vice-versa.

Anyways, he goes in for an interview. Arrives, wearing a nice suit and tie. Arrives a few minutes early and he he waits in a waiting area. Starts his interview. My friend is white as are the 2 guys who interviewed him. Both guys started making remarks that were racially insensitive about blacks and latinos. The phone rang, the interviewer picked up and after a few moments said to the person on the other line, "Well, tell that *** <n-word> next time to be on time and he won't have to wait so long..." Then the guy goes on about how he wishes he could just not hire blacks and latinos because they are terrible workers, they are this, they are that. My friend, wanting to get on this guy's good side plays along. Starts agreeing. They ended the interview, asked him to wait outside. Someone else came out and said, "Thanks for coming in, but we don't want you working for us." They set him up and he took the bait.
 

Glen Sathers Cigar

Sather 4 Ever
Feb 4, 2013
16,546
20,157
New York
Also, there are a ton of web analytics jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Or digital marketing. I wish I had digital experience. There is absolutely no reason anyone over the age of 24 should ever work for an agency. (Note: I worked at an agency through 27). You're smart, good at numbers. You should go work for some capacity of digital for a Fortune 500 company. I even saw an opening for web analytics with Morgan Stanley. Digital is the present and the future.

What would your best advice be for getting a job at one of these major companies in a digital media/marketing capacity?

I work in digital media, but for a smaller company out on Long Island, but I've been trying to upgrade to a bigger corporate structured company in the city, but I can't seem to break through. I troll the job boards and apply, but is there anything else to do/anywhere else to look?
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
I'm going to sound negative, but would rather give it to you straight. If you are talking about the big paying investment banking jobs, then your best bet is to go to grad school and only if you get into one of the top-10 MBA programs. Schools like Columbia, Penn, Cornell, U of Chicago, NYU, Harvard to name a few. Getting an MBA from Hofstra, St Johns, or Fordham is not going to get you an interview for one of the big paying IB jobs. For the jobs you are likely referring, the companies hold events at the big schools and they are not going to talk to you unless you go to one. I'm sorry if I am being negative, just want you to know what the truth.

You CAN get a job as an analyst out of undergrad, but you really need to have connections and be from a top school. A friend of mine from HS was able to get a job right out of college. He graduated Johns Hopkins with a 3.5 and someone with whom he played football at Hopkins got him in. As someone said, he worked LONG hours. I don't speak to him often anymore, so not sure he ever went on to get his MBA.

My old roommate did it a little different. He graduated Cornell Suma *** Laude in Computer Science. Worked for 3 years, then decided he wanted to go for his MBA and get into investment banking. He applied to all of the top b-schools. Had a very high GMAT. Only place that accepted him was Columbia. He even had a strong connection to U of Chicago and the admission officer told the connection to have him apply in 2 more years. Got the same feedback from NYU and Penn. So, it is a catch-22 in that case. Can't get the big job without a top-MBA, but the programs won't accept you right out of college.

My brother is currently at NYU for his MBA. However, he graduated from Binghamton, and while in undergrad went to OCS. Was in the Marines as a Lt, and Captain for about 5 or 6 years after graduation. Did 2 tours in Afghanistan. Last summer he had an internship with a large bank, doing something with Energy. At the end of the summer, they extended him an offer for this summer. He is hoping at the end of this summer to get a full-time offer for after he graduates in May.

Few things to keep in mind, after starting at NYU, the application process for summer jobs starts pretty quickly. Last October, only 2 months into the program he was applying and being invited to events. Most of the events involve open bar or people from the company taking you out and throwing their cc on the bar. He was always careful not to get too hammered. Others were not so careful and soon after received letters saying they will not be offered positions. At the first event, he noticed one of the hosts kept walking away and talking into his phone. Yes, by the end of the night this host was wasted. What he later found out was the host was sending emails and texts to himself taking notes on the recruits. One of his fellow recruits kept asking one of the hosts if they had any coke, needless to say he was not extended an offer. Another recruit suggested they all go to the strip club since the companies were paying for it, he wasn't given an offer. Over the winter, a few guys from the company took him and 4 other guys who have been given offers to this company for this summer to a Knicks game with 2 big money clients. My brother could not care less about basketball or the Knicks, but still played along. The 2 clients were HUGE Knicks fans, so my brother cheered for the Knicks as if he was, as well. So did the other recruits. They all still had their jobs for this summer.

The point, these events are NOT done by companies as a way to RECRUIT you. They are not doing it to be nice or show you how wonderful they are. They KNOW they hold the cards. Yes, they need to constantly fill positions with talented people, but there is more to it then knowing how to read a balance sheet or how to calculate a P/E ratio. However, there are THOUSANDS of people qualified to just do the job on paper and thousands willing to work the long hours that are required. It is done to TEST you and it is part of the hiring process.

I don't think it has to be top 10. Cornell is a target school I believe that's more top 15. Of course top 10 helps. However, yes top 20, top 25 is important but especially important if the school is a target school. Carnegie Mellon is a great school for Tech and Management Consulting (albeit 2nd tier consulting) but IB, it's not great. Still got most of the people that looked into getting into Banking, a job, I believe. It's just fewer people looked. But yes, outside of Cornell all of those schools are usually top 10 and all of those schools are target schools.
 

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
52,096
30,687
Brooklyn, NY
What would your best advice be for getting a job at one of these major companies in a digital media/marketing capacity?

I work in digital media, but for a smaller company out on Long Island, but I've been trying to upgrade to a bigger corporate structured company in the city, but I can't seem to break through. I troll the job boards and apply, but is there anything else to do/anywhere else to look?

You're talking to someone that is currently unemployed and lost in his career, haha. Getting into a Fortune 500 company is a traditional MBA role it would help to get a top MBA. But I don't know about digital. These companies are more likely to care about a good MBA but once again I don't know if that's the case for digital or not as that's not a traditional MBA role. I think connections help, maybe you can message someone at the company on LinkedIn. Not sure how well that would work.
 

Glen Sathers Cigar

Sather 4 Ever
Feb 4, 2013
16,546
20,157
New York
You're talking to someone that is currently unemployed and lost in his career, haha. Getting into a Fortune 500 company is a traditional MBA role it would help to get a top MBA. But I don't know about digital. These companies are more likely to care about a good MBA but once again I don't know if that's the case for digital or not as that's not a traditional MBA role. I think connections help, maybe you can message someone at the company on LinkedIn. Not sure how well that would work.

Yeah, I've thought about trying to reach out to people personally, I guess Linkedin is good for that.

It just feels like when submitting resumes as if I'm just throwing them into a wasteland never to be read or even confirmed if they were received and being reviewed or anything.
 

silverfish

got perma'd
Jun 24, 2008
34,644
4,353
under the bridge
Yeah, I've thought about trying to reach out to people personally, I guess Linkedin is good for that.

It just feels like when submitting resumes as if I'm just throwing them into a wasteland never to be read or even confirmed if they were received and being reviewed or anything.

If you are looking for agency-side digital work, I may be able to help [this goes for anyone viewing this thread :) ]. PM me with what you are looking for and I'll see if I can direct you accordingly.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad