What are your realistic expectations for the 'tear down'?

[WTFMAN99]

We still have some bargain bin players to sell - Jokinen, Booth, Sill, Holzer

Guys under contract who could go at the deadline - Bozak, Lupul and Reimer.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Didn't realise Kessel was the entire core, and no, unlike many here apparently, I don't believe that all of them need to be traded. I have no interest in being the Oilers.

Why does it have to be the Oilers?

Why can't it be Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Chicago?...you know teams who rebuilt. Oilers just have terrible management...quite possibly the worst even.

 

[silentbob37*]

Did not vote. No option for not trading everyone.

I still don't think Kessel is going anywhere nor should he.

This is wrong.

Trading Kessel should be their #1 priority.

 

[Vexed]

This is wrong.

Trading Kessel should be their #1 priority.

100% disagree. He'd be the last of the bunch and I would only move him for a great return. Pretty much everyone else outside of JvR, Kadri and Bernier I take the best offer I can get

 

[Nithoniniel]

I get the idea of keeping Kessel, I get the arguments for. I just can't see an overhaul of character on this team with him here. No matter what, he'll be a huge factor in this teams personality.

I'm well prepared to see us losing that trade, and I can see him making us regret it, but I feel it is necessary.

 

[X66]

This is wrong.

Trading Kessel should be their #1 priority.

It should definitely be one of the main priorities because he'd garner the best value.

Still don't see it happening right away, I can see him being the very last domino knocked off.

 

[Faltorvo]

I get the idea of keeping Kessel, I get the arguments for. I just can't see an overhaul of character on this team with him here. No matter what, he'll be a huge factor in this teams personality.

I'm well prepared to see us losing that trade, and I can see him making us regret it, but I feel it is necessary.

yup

i think kessel needs to be traded to a team with a strong locker room


borg like "comply or die"

 

[thewave]

I think we can be a bubble team in 2 years. I have been breaking down what we have and depending on who we fire out the door and UFAs we get back to the bubble can happen quickly even while waiting for the kids to develop. I don't think we are trading Kessel at this point in time.

What I am really hoping for is a massive overpayment for Kessel if we take back Semin. I am talking a real deal loaded up picks and prospects haul because we take that back, or for Dion same deal.

 

[Tak7]

1 - I think the Leafs are done making major moves before the deadline.

2 - I don't think the Leafs need to "Buffalo" it and go scorched earth. Meaning guys like Gardiner, Kadri, and JVR probably stay

3 - I don't think the core (Lupul / Bozak / Dion / Kessel) can be moved before the draft - salary cap par & lack of creative deals will prevent that from happening.

 

[silentbob37*]

100% disagree. He'd be the last of the bunch and I would only move him for a great return. Pretty much everyone else outside of JvR, Kadri and Bernier I take the best offer I can get

He should be the first to go to reduce the odds of our draft position being ruined by a hot streak, and to start the culture change that is needed. If Kessel REALLY is as good and well thought of around the league as some fans say he is, then they should have no problem gettin ga good return for him by this off-season at the latest.

It should definitely be one of the main priorities because he'd garner the best value.

Still don't see it happening right away, I can see him being the very last domino knocked off.

He'd get a good return, but he is the one player who could ruin their draft position this year and in the coming years, and if the Leafs want a culture/style/attitude change they NEED to remove ALL pieces of the current core. New guys will not step up and take control of the room and the team while Kessel and Phaneuf and Bozak etc... are still there.

 

[Tak7]

I get the idea of keeping Kessel, I get the arguments for. I just can't see an overhaul of character on this team with him here. No matter what, he'll be a huge factor in this teams personality.

I'm well prepared to see us losing that trade, and I can see him making us regret it, but I feel it is necessary.

Important thing to note is that even if Kessel goes to another team, and becomes the next "Patrick Kane" (show time, cups, Conn Smythes, good support around him), that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Maple Leafs - the Leafs need picks / prospects more than they need Kessel.

What Kessel does with his time beyond Toronto is irrelevant, although 1st rd pick placement notwithstanding I think we would all like to see Phil do well in a similar way we all wanted to see Kaberle do well when he left

 

[silentbob37*]

I think we can be a bubble team in 2 years. I have been breaking down what we have and depending on who we fire out the door and UFAs we get back to the bubble can happen quickly even while waiting for the kids to develop. I don't think we are trading Kessel at this point in time.

What I am really hoping for is a massive overpayment for Kessel if we take back Semin. I am talking a real deal loaded up picks and prospects haul because we take that back, or for Dion same deal.

They could MAYBE be a competitive team around in 2 years IF everything goes perfectly for them.

It won't, they are likely a bad team for 5 years. Thats how this should be approached.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Important thing to note is that even if Kessel goes to another team, and becomes the next "Patrick Kane" (show time, cups, Conn Smythes, good support around him), that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Maple Leafs - the Leafs need picks / prospects more than they need Kessel.

What Kessel does with his time beyond Toronto is irrelevant, although 1st rd pick placement notwithstanding I think we would all like to see Phil do well in a similar way we all wanted to see Kaberle do well when he left

I agree completely.

 

[Commander Clueless]

They could MAYBE be a competitive team around in 2 years IF everything goes perfectly for them.

It won't, they are likely a bad team for 5 years. Thats how this should be approached.

They've been a bad team for a decade already.


At this point, the best approach is to assume they will be complete **** every year and be pleasantly surprised if they eventually pull out of it.

 

[thewave]

They could MAYBE be a competitive team around in 2 years IF everything goes perfectly for them.

It won't, they are likely a bad team for 5 years. Thats how this should be approached.

With Hunter and Dubas the two top drafting guys in the OHL, top tier eyes for talent on the team good things will happen.

I don't think they will be making this team miserable because our trade able assets are not over the hill or bad per se. They are a terrible team and decent individuals.

Don't be surprised if they convert some later picks into players at some point.

Add: I think they will attempt to rebuild the Marlies at the same time with the highest picks and slow boat it on that end at the same time.

 

[silentbob37*]

Important thing to note is that even if Kessel goes to another team, and becomes the next "Patrick Kane" (show time, cups, Conn Smythes, good support around him), that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Maple Leafs - the Leafs need picks / prospects more than they need Kessel.

What Kessel does with his time beyond Toronto is irrelevant, although 1st rd pick placement notwithstanding I think we would all like to see Phil do well in a similar way we all wanted to see Kaberle do well when he left

It also doesn't mean he would have ever done that here.

 

[silentbob37*]

With Hunter and Dubas the two top drafting guys in the OHL, top tier eyes for talent on the team good things will happen.

I don't think they will be making this team miserable because our trade able assets are not over the hill or bad per se. They are a terrible team and decent individuals.

Don't be surprised if they convert some later picks into players at some point.

Add: I think they will attempt to rebuild the Marlies at the same time with the highest picks and slow boat it on that end at the same time.

They have good resumes, but they are also completely unproven in the NHL. And even the best scouts pick busts. The same GM who picked Toews and Kane also picked Skille and Barker.

A some point they have to go from rebuilding to being competitive, but to think they'll be there in 2 years is foolish.

 

[X66]

I also think the 5 years phrase is overused and overrated.

If the Leafs play their cards right, they can really set a very strong foundation in the next 18 months because they do have the assets to trade to accelerate a rebuild(No, not the Burke way). That was one of the main things that killed them at the end of the Sundin Era, they missed out on a prime opportunity to cash out on Sundin, Tucker, Kubina and Kaberle but was just sat on it and got nothing for it. We did end up Trading Kubina and Kaberle but nowhere near what they could have been while they were 'younger'.

I'm not saying the Leafs are going to be contenders in 18 months, but they could have a dynamic core in place moving forward, with older players like JVR, Kadri and Bernier easing the transition.

 

[thewave]

They have good resumes, but they are also completely unproven in the NHL. And even the best scouts pick busts. The same GM who picked Toews and Kane also picked Skille and Barker.

A some point they have to go from rebuilding to being competitive, but to think they'll be there in 2 years is foolish.

They are proven at gauging kids. Kids that are eventually drafted high in the NHL and have good careers.

The rebuild right now is oddly not the leafs. We are rebuilding the Marlies. The NHL stuff is the sideshow right now and they'll look at UFAs (Like Santa/Winnik) for next season, take a contract back like Semin perhaps in a deal for Kessel or Dion, unload Clarkson etc etc but make sure they are designing a team of Marlies that will be logically put together.

We won't see a rebuilt leafs for 4-5 years. We will see a rebuilt foundation and I am sure TML system put in place. I am also sure the new leafs will have a CERTAIN STYLE after this is done. Bozak is seemingly nothing like what they want here. I imagine Kessel isn't either but it depends.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

By deadline:

Jokinen- gone
Bozak-50% chance gone
Polak -40% chance gone

Off-season:
Bozak-gone if not by this trade deadline
Phaneuf-gone
Kessel-50% chance gone
Likely take on a few vets on shorter term deals who we can later trade

Free Agency:
-Sign a few guys to show me one-year deals


Next Deadline:
Guys signed to 1 year show me deals like Winnik, Raymond, Santo were are traded
Polak-gone if not dealt this deadline
Robidas-gone
Lupul-gone as his deal was front loaded
Reimer-gone

Following Off-Season:
Gardiner-gone as Rielly, Percy and even Finn prove more valuable and cheaper as left handed puck movers.

People should get ready for lots of recycling of vets who come along on shorter term deals.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I also think the 5 years phrase is overused and overrated.

If the Leafs play their cards right, they can really set a very strong foundation in the next 18 months because they do have the assets to trade to accelerate a rebuild(No, not the Burke way). That was one of the main things that killed them at the end of the Sundin Era, they missed out on a prime opportunity to cash out on Sundin, Tucker, Kubina and Kaberle but was just sat on it and got nothing for it. We did end up Trading Kubina and Kaberle but nowhere near what they could have been while they were 'younger'.

I'm not saying the Leafs are going to be contenders in 18 months, but they could have a dynamic core in place moving forward, with older players like JVR, Kadri and Bernier easing the transition.

I agree with this.

Some further development of Rielly, Nylander making the jump in the next few years and adding a top 5 pick this year and likely another top pick next year is a lot of premium assets coming along can change the look of this team in short order.

+ Add in a lot of asset depth from dealing non-core pieces like Franson, Winnik, Santo, Polak, Jokinen, Bozak, etc. will have our system well stocked for a few years down the road.

 

[613Leafer]

I think we can be a bubble team in 2 years. I have been breaking down what we have and depending on who we fire out the door and UFAs we get back to the bubble can happen quickly even while waiting for the kids to develop. I don't think we are trading Kessel at this point in time.

What I am really hoping for is a massive overpayment for Kessel if we take back Semin. I am talking a real deal loaded up picks and prospects haul because we take that back, or for Dion same deal.

Yep, as long as we got the right piece with our 2015 1st rounder, I think we could have a very solid foundation in place within 18 months that projects to grow into a solid playoff team, and which could be a bubble team shortly after that.

Our 1st this year + a very likely high 1st next year could give us two more young pieces of Rielly/Nylander calibre or higher, + all the depth picks/prospects we've already accumulated (1st, 2nd, 4th, Leipsic) and will be accumulating. We'll probably get at least 2-3 pretty legitimate prospects/young NHLers via Kessel/Phaneuf trades, as well as picks and the like. JVR is a trade chip that could land us a very good package as well, which could make sense if you consider that by the time we're relevant he'll be needing a big raise (so we wouldn't benefit from his cheap contract).

With cleared capspace, we could surround our young core with some moderate UFA signings or cheap capdump trades, similar to Calgary bringing in Wideman, Hudler, Hiller, etc, Florida bringing in Fleishmann, Upshall, Campbell, Luongo, etc. And two years from now we should have 4-6 young guys of ~Rielly/Nylander calibre, via our own 1st rounders + potentially that calibre of piece in a Kessel and/or JVR trade, + a lot more depth in the farm system behind those guys.

Ultimately it depends on if guys excel or bust. I'm sure Columbus when they drafted 116 point draft year Brassard, thought they were getting their longterm franchise centre. Which is why getting 4-6 guys of that calibre can pay off bigtime, because even if one or two bust (e.g. Barker/Skille), with that many, you're very likely to hit a couple of homeruns (e.g. Toews/Kane/Seabrook).

Calgary sold off Iginla/Bouwmeester in 2013, and are a solid playoff contender in 2015. Florida didn't start rebuilding and didnt draft top 5 until 2010, and then made the playoffs in 2012 (before falling back down, but now seem on their way back up). So it doesn't HAVE to be 5+ years with no playoffs. If done properly, we could have a solid foundation in place relatively quickly.

 

[ACC1224]

I also think the 5 years phrase is overused and overrated.

If the Leafs play their cards right, they can really set a very strong foundation in the next 18 months because they do have the assets to trade to accelerate a rebuild(No, not the Burke way). That was one of the main things that killed them at the end of the Sundin Era, they missed out on a prime opportunity to cash out on Sundin, Tucker, Kubina and Kaberle but was just sat on it and got nothing for it. We did end up Trading Kubina and Kaberle but nowhere near what they could have been while they were 'younger'.

I'm not saying the Leafs are going to be contenders in 18 months, but they could have a dynamic core in place moving forward, with older players like JVR, Kadri and Bernier easing the transition.

Absolutely. That's more wishful thinking by some.

 

[The Apologist]

Why does it have to be the Oilers?

Why can't it be Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Chicago?...you know teams who rebuilt. Oilers just have terrible management...quite possibly the worst even.

Because while they did rebuild, most of them were smart enough to keep some pieces around. The oilers burnt it to the ground an have zero leadership on that team. Te players are lost.

While a rebuild may be necessary here, there is nothing wrong with keeping certain pieces around.

 

[The Apologist]

I get the idea of keeping Kessel, I get the arguments for. I just can't see an overhaul of character on this team with him here. No matter what, he'll be a huge factor in this teams personality.

I'm well prepared to see us losing that trade, and I can see him making us regret it, but I feel it is necessary.

I don't think Kessel's character is loud enough to really affect the locker room one way or the other.

He's not the leader, never claimed to be, an doesn't need to be. That does not mean he is a hindrance or a negative on the team.