What are we gonna do about this team?

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
17,882
15,731
Calgary
Lets be honest, I don't think any Flames fan expects this team to win game 6. They've been horrible in elimination games the last half decade and I don't expect things to change. In saying that, what the hell are we going to do after that?

Now I have to admit my assessment of Giordano is rough in GDTs, and admittedly it isn't his fault that his decline has been sharp, but his days as a franchise dman are OVER! You can argue he wasn't that in the regular season, but he was still a solid #1d at least, but no longer. Add to the fact Brodie will likely be walking for nothing and our defense looks very bad next year. Andersson might top out as a solid #2d, but I can't see him ever having the offensive impact that Giordano had in his prime. Noah Hanifin honestly doesn't look like anything more than a meh #4, and I doubt there many gms in the league that will bite on his upside like the Flames did. So we gonna pray that Valimaki magically becomes a #1d next year? Yikes!

Forward group might have some hope with Mangi and Dube growing, but I think the time has come to move Gaudreau (and maybe even Monahan). The duo has been awful for almost 2 years now, and the fact of the matter is there are too many flaws in each their game's to be the main offensive driver of a team. Cut Gaudreau off and take away space, and he simply can't make effective plays. Monahan can't be relied on as an effective puck carrier or defensive player, so how tf can he be considered a #1C? I've always been a fan of Gaudreau, but he ain't gonna get it done here (give him a solid #1C though and I think he makes people eat crow). Add to the fact Backlund is near the end of his prime, along with absolutely 0 blue chip centre prospects, and the forward group is going to be in a lot of trouble real soon (also looks like an almost certainty Gaudreau will walk in 2 years as well).

Talbot has been solid in the playoffs, but how are the Flames are gonna afford to keep him if they wanna improve the roster (and can he be trusted to be the #1G)? Rittich has lost the net twice in the playoffs, what's his future looking like?

Geoff Ward looks.... eh? Idk the team got caved against Colorado last year so you do have to question personnel, but I don't think he's the guy either.

The team rn is missing a #1C, a #1D, and a #1G. They also likely lose their #2D to free agency, and our #1W is likely all but gone in a couple years. My take, this team is primed for a retool and a top 10 pick or two. Either that or we could push the can down the road and probably implode just as our new arena is in place. Miracles can happen, but I don't think this core will EVER be a cup contender. Oh well, not like things will ever change.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
17,882
15,731
Calgary
Flames since winning cup:
90: 1st round exit
91: 1st round exit
92: 1st round exit
93: 1st round exit
94: 1st round exit
95: 1st round exit
96: 1st round exit
97: no playoffs
98: no playoffs
99: no playoffs
00: no playoffs
01: no playoffs
02: no playoffs
03: no playoffs
04: finals!
06: 1st round exit
07: 1st round exit
08: 1st round exit
09: 1st round exit
10: no playoffs
11: no playoffs
12: no playoffs
13: no playoffs
14: no playoffs
15: 2nd round exit
16: no playoffs
17: 1st round exit
18: no playoffs
19: 1st round exit (#1 seed)
20: verge of 1st round exit

Credit bunk of CP for this. Mickey mouse level shit.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,472
14,782
Victoria
We focus on ourselves, but there are so many teams in the league in worse situations than us.

I think we forge on. I would love to see a coach brought in who can establish a tight system so that we can become one of those teams that is hard to play against. I am frustrating at watching the Flames give up easy zone entries while never encountering them themselves. I'm tired of Gaudreau getting the puck in situations where he has literally no options. My hope is that a coach can fix this, because just about every team we play seems to have more structure than we do in the way we play.

If we go out meekly this round, I'd be fine moving just about anyone, but I would want the focus of the move to be on improving the team, not simply selling or salvaging. I'm still firmly of the belief that in a 31-team league, you cannot treat playoff results as the gospel. We have players who have shown they are winners in other situations who aren't winning here. All we can do is improve the team to give them the best shot.

I think if you keep cycling through rebuilds until you end up with a team that is a guaranteed contender, you could be waiting 60+ years and wasting chances at a Cup.
 

Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
20,990
17,402
New coach if we can get Gallant or Laviolette. Other than that, Ward's an average head coach to me, so it's not disastrous if we keep him. Certainly better than Peters and Gulutzan, although that's a low bar.

Trade Monahan, Hanifin
Re-sign Brodie
Pray Valimaki can be our #1D
Let Gustafsson, Forbort walk
Keep Bennett as a centre
Try to sign Hall
Seriously test the market for Gaudreau

I don't see the point of hanging on to a core until the bitter end if the pieces don't mesh well together. 5 years ago the Avs were the biggest joke in the league, Vegas didn't exist, and the Hawks were a modern day dynasty. You have to be adaptive to the situation and realize that teams change a lot over the course of those years. All we've done in that time is swap in and out depth pieces to augment a foundation that seems to have gotten progressively more stale before it's experienced any playoff success.
 
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Mazatt

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
2,819
2,085
If you're the Flames, there's not a lot you can do imo. You have Gaudreau on an expiring contract and your presumable next star is sitting in a situation where he can be a UFA if the team doesn't build around him within 4 seasons. Once the Flames are out I might take a look at the prospects we have and how that impacts moves we can make. For now I think we still look at contending next season:

Ryan in his current state is useful, but he currently is underutilized playing with lacklustre wingers in Rinaldo and Quine. With 1 year left I think you have to consider trading him in the offseason/deadline and see what someone like Gawdin or any surprises can do. If no one steps up Monahan - Backlund - Bennett - Jankowski could work. I'd personally re-sign Janowski and give him one last chance to prove his worth here.

Acquiting another top 6 player would be at the top of my list imo, allow us to move Mangiapane, and subsequently Lucic down the lineup, but I also don't think that top 6 guy is Hall. Maybe use Hanifin as a trade chip? Maybe do a move with Gaudreau and Hanifin packaged to acquire two top 6 pieces? Who knows.

Give the young guys a chance. The Flames apparently like Ruzicka seeing how he came to camp, Phillips is promising, Gawdin has also shown promise. Really, Flames just need to work their players up ala Mangiapane. Finally giving Kylington a chance in the regular season, if they even think of sitting him for Michael f***ing Stone literally just fire them on the spot.

I don't think any trades we make will keep us competitive so inserting youth is going to be big, and on top of that giving the youth chances will be big. Don't go into camp with anything pencilled in yet, base the lineup off of who works together, and be willing to change the lineups if it isn't working.
 

CamPopplestone

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
2,515
2,895
New coach is pointless. These are country club boys. They buy in to a coach for one season, then the work becomes too hard and they slack off. This core doesn't like being pushed. They coast around half the games, no urgency in puck races, constant dump ins, no effort on the forecheck, endless cycling in the offensive zone until a turnover happens, that's just what our team is. 2004-2012 was a team that just didn't have much top end talent besides your Iginla and Kiprusoff, but had a lot of heart, so while we got bumped in the first round most of the time, at least it felt like the team was giving it their all. Flames the last 4 years have been more frustrating.

They go on about how motivated they are, then the moment a game goes wrong, it's like they deflate and just crater
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Make a package of Johnahanifin and see what sort of RHS top 6 forward + young RHS D you can get in return. Maybe the Leafs are interested in flipping Mitch Marner with retained salary and Timothy Liljegren.

Re-sign Brodie. It's common sense.

Thank Rieder for his time here, but it's time to make space for a kid.

Time to finally build around Sam Bennett. And finally, it's time to stop using the Backlund line in a tough minutes role. Continue to develop Mangiapane and Dube. Move Lucic to the 4th line, hopefully he doesn't pout about it but you just need a faster top nine.

Promote kids like Pellettier, Phillips and Zavgorodniy to the NHL, assuming they have a good camp.

Give Ward a one year deal. He's a lame duck but he (finally) used Bennett right, so at least he can get Bennett's career kickstarted before we fire him for a real coach.

Dube - Bennett - Marner
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Ryan - Zavgorodniy
Lucic - Jankowski - Phillips

Kylington - Andersson
Valimaki - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren

IDC about goalies, Talbot's good, Rittich's good. Just play well in front tbqh.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,472
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Victoria
If you're the Flames, there's not a lot you can do imo. You have Gaudreau on an expiring contract and your presumable next star is sitting in a situation where he can be a UFA if the team doesn't build around him within 4 seasons. Once the Flames are out I might take a look at the prospects we have and how that impacts moves we can make. For now I think we still look at contending next season:

Ryan in his current state is useful, but he currently is underutilized playing with lacklustre wingers in Rinaldo and Quine. With 1 year left I think you have to consider trading him in the offseason/deadline and see what someone like Gawdin or any surprises can do. If no one steps up Monahan - Backlund - Bennett - Jankowski could work. I'd personally re-sign Janowski and give him one last chance to prove his worth here.

Acquiting another top 6 player would be at the top of my list imo, allow us to move Mangiapane, and subsequently Lucic down the lineup, but I also don't think that top 6 guy is Hall. Maybe use Hanifin as a trade chip? Maybe do a move with Gaudreau and Hanifin packaged to acquire two top 6 pieces? Who knows.

Give the young guys a chance. The Flames apparently like Ruzicka seeing how he came to camp, Phillips is promising, Gawdin has also shown promise. Really, Flames just need to work their players up ala Mangiapane. Finally giving Kylington a chance in the regular season, if they even think of sitting him for Michael f***ing Stone literally just fire them on the spot.

I don't think any trades we make will keep us competitive so inserting youth is going to be big, and on top of that giving the youth chances will be big. Don't go into camp with anything pencilled in yet, base the lineup off of who works together, and be willing to change the lineups if it isn't working.

Just to nitpick, Gaudreau won't be playing on an expiring contract next year. He has two years left.
 

Mazatt

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
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2,085
Tbh re-sign Rieder. Dude f***s and is a perfect PKer. He and Jankowski are guys I'd consider keeping around
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,472
14,782
Victoria
Ah, my B. In that case I'd say f*** it, hire Gallant and run it back for a year before considering a blow up
That's my feeling, too. There are those that feel that it's critical to trade Gaudreau this off-season, but I think you have to gamble on him raising his stock next season in a better system. The situation really seems to scream giving it one more shot with a legit coach. I don't think we are in a terrible situation if we end up being bad next year with the same roster.
 
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viper0220

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
8,573
3,500
What are your guys opinions on doing a rebuild?

We don't have a #1 center, we don't have a #1 Defenceman, we don't have a #1 goalie. Hiring a top level with this core is not going to work because we have went through enough coaches.

Fire Brad Trevling, he has not done jack shit. This team is a mess right now and I don't think Brad Trevling is the one, who can fix this mess.

Hire a GM for the rebuild.

Trade everyone with value and start over again.

Nothing in this organization inspires confidence.
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
3,915
3,546
"Is there some award to be won for signing free agents or spending to the cap with futility that I don't know about?

Everyone watching these games is thinking to themselves that this team is replacing Gaudreau with Hall away from what exactly?

Surely an 8 million dollar Taylor Hall and a 38 year old Giordano is what's going to stir the drink and bring the Flames to the promised land? It's definitely a great idea to build a team around two left wingers, right?

Maybe they need more motivational speakers for pre-game? Do some of you guys even read your own posts after you click submit?

A hard cap league is a zero sum game. You're not going to win a goddamned thing when you're paying Michael Stone 2 million dollars to fart into the same cushion for 70 games. When your big roster shakeup is putting in Rinaldo, it's a sign you're a dog#### organization that has no other option but to sign a PTO to fill out the roster.

Trusting the guy who's major accomplishments the last 3 sesaons for this organization hs been to lose trades and sign bad free agent deals to trade away Gaudreau and sign Hall?

Lord Almighty!

Whether the Flames win this series against a backup goalie or not, is anyone really in doubt on the trajectory of this group and the people running it?"

- CP Poster


I really like this, I try not to get too down about the Flames because at the end of the day it's just sports. However the thing I want to see the least is the team spinning it's wheels doing nothing, I know there's some good pieces and we're obviously not bad enough to pick last but I think this team probably needs a year or two of retooling unless we absolutely kill it asset management wise. I think we had a good trajectory and I think sad as it is 2015 was probably the year that killed the rebuild because it completely shifted expectations for the team and we moved into win now mode.
 

viper0220

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
8,573
3,500
"Is there some award to be won for signing free agents or spending to the cap with futility that I don't know about?

Everyone watching these games is thinking to themselves that this team is replacing Gaudreau with Hall away from what exactly?

Surely an 8 million dollar Taylor Hall and a 38 year old Giordano is what's going to stir the drink and bring the Flames to the promised land? It's definitely a great idea to build a team around two left wingers, right?

Maybe they need more motivational speakers for pre-game? Do some of you guys even read your own posts after you click submit?

A hard cap league is a zero sum game. You're not going to win a goddamned thing when you're paying Michael Stone 2 million dollars to fart into the same cushion for 70 games. When your big roster shakeup is putting in Rinaldo, it's a sign you're a dog#### organization that has no other option but to sign a PTO to fill out the roster.

Trusting the guy who's major accomplishments the last 3 sesaons for this organization hs been to lose trades and sign bad free agent deals to trade away Gaudreau and sign Hall?

Lord Almighty!

Whether the Flames win this series against a backup goalie or not, is anyone really in doubt on the trajectory of this group and the people running it?"

- CP Poster


I really like this, I try not to get too down about the Flames because at the end of the day it's just sports. However the thing I want to see the least is the team spinning it's wheels doing nothing, I know there's some good pieces and we're obviously not bad enough to pick last but I think this team probably needs a year or two of retooling unless we absolutely kill it asset management wise. I think we had a good trajectory and I think sad as it is 2015 was probably the year that killed the rebuild because it completely shifted expectations for the team and we moved into win now mode.


That CP poster is right, not many people will admit but the problem is Brad Trevling, I would go further and say the problem is the owner ship of this team. They want that playoff revenue, even if it is for a couple of games.

The most sad part is that, when they get their new arena, they will raise the ticket prices, through the roof and the gullible people will pay for it and get the same shitty product.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Victoria
Meh, Treliving has done his job well. He has responded to team needs and acted accordingly. The specific players he has acquired have not always panned out, but that's not exclusively the fault of the guy at the top. He has also put this team into a pretty flexible position going forward, which I very much appreciate after some previous GMs.

You've got guys on the internet throwing tantrums after a loss (showing that their expectations were clearly higher than the results) and then admonishing others in such rants if they have their expectations higher than the current result. So many people act like Dallas is the Washington Generals, and that losing to them is a huge indictment. It's the playoffs. It's not easy, and 8 good teams are going to lose in the first round. As we've seen time and time again, you do not have to be a bad team to lose in the playoffs.

Like all 31 teams, we need to try to improve for next year in order to give ourselves the best chance at success. I think Brad is as qualified as anyone else to make the necessary improvements. We could fire him, but it's not going to fix the team's issues. At best, we get a guy as GM who will be receptive to the team's needs and will act aggressively to fix them.... someone like Brad Treliving.
 
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Mazatt

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
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Make a package of Johnahanifin and see what sort of RHS top 6 forward + young RHS D you can get in return. Maybe the Leafs are interested in flipping Mitch Marner with retained salary and Timothy Liljegren.

Re-sign Brodie. It's common sense.

Thank Rieder for his time here, but it's time to make space for a kid.

Time to finally build around Sam Bennett. And finally, it's time to stop using the Backlund line in a tough minutes role. Continue to develop Mangiapane and Dube. Move Lucic to the 4th line, hopefully he doesn't pout about it but you just need a faster top nine.

Promote kids like Pellettier, Phillips and Zavgorodniy to the NHL, assuming they have a good camp.

Give Ward a one year deal. He's a lame duck but he (finally) used Bennett right, so at least he can get Bennett's career kickstarted before we fire him for a real coach.

Dube - Bennett - Marner
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Ryan - Zavgorodniy
Lucic - Jankowski - Phillips

Kylington - Andersson
Valimaki - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren

IDC about goalies, Talbot's good, Rittich's good. Just play well in front tbqh.
This lineup looks about ready to tank. Kylington - Andersson top pairing? What has Kylington done to make you think he can be a top pairing defensemen. Valimaki - Brodie would be the top pair and even that's a tretch. And building around Bennett... He's been a depth piece outside of the playoffs, I just don't see how you justify building around him. That's a recipe for disaster.
 

User1996

Registered User
Jun 24, 2020
2,883
1,725
Picking high in the 2021 and 2022 drafts would be nice. Get a stud D like Power, than game breaking forward like Wright. Hell with any luck maybe Askarov is available this year. Would be nice to have a building block at every major position.

Obviously, that’s tongue and cheek. I think the route to go is bring in one of the big name coaches and get creative to give this team one more kick at the can. Potentially less Johnny since he clearly has had the least “give a shit” out of all the forwards on the roster so far this playoffs
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
18,206
16,242
Gio looks washed, honestly. I don't know what you do about that.

Valimaki will be in next year.

Make a couple trades maybe and get a new coach. Ward doesn't have it.

Hope a workhorse goalie falls in their lap, I dunno if Rittich has the stuff at this point.

They're probably going let Talbot walk aren't they?
 
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Ainsy01

Registered User
Jun 12, 2014
1,187
627
We, as in the fans on a forum, will do absolutely nothing, maybe attend a couple games and buy a couple jerseys. Y'all need to remember that.
 

DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
38,094
6,426
Calgary
Gio looks washed, honestly. I don't know what you do about that.

Valimaki will be in next year.

Make a couple trades maybe and get a new coach. Ward doesn't have it.

Hope a workhorse goalie falls in their lap, I dunno if Rittich has the stuff at this point.

They're probably going let Talbot walk aren't they?
Gio is done, even if he bounces back next season, we're maybe looking at what we got this past year (before the playoffs). Not a top pairing guy anymore.

Valimaki is a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel... hopefully his injury didn't set him back too much.

Ward is fine. I like him but he's really nothing special. If the biggest thing he has going for him is that the players like him... well, lol

Hard to say anything about Rittich, he hasn't played. Talbot's been sensational but is it a little bit telling that they haven't even looked in Rittich's direction? Maybe. Hard to say.

I would definitely re-sign Talbot but at the same time, he's 33. You have maybe a few more years with him as your guy and then he's in Mike Smith territory. You hope that Zag or Wolf are ready to go when he's done.
 
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Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
18,206
16,242
Gio is done, even if he bounces back next season, we're maybe looking at what we got this past year (before the playoffs). Not a top pairing guy anymore.

Valimaki is a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel... hopefully his injury didn't set him back too much.

Ward is fine. I like him but he's really nothing special. If the biggest thing he has going for him is that the players like him... well, lol

Hard to say anything about Rittich, he hasn't played. Talbot's been sensational but is it a little bit telling that they haven't even looked in Rittich's direction? Maybe. Hard to say.

I would definitely re-sign Talbot but at the same time, he's 33. You have maybe a few more years with him as your guy and then he's in Mike Smith territory. You hope that Zag or Wolf are ready to go when he's done.
I would re-sign Talbot for sure. Just the way hockey teams operate I figured they'd sign the younger guy in Rittich.
 

Nanuuk

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
2,593
1,240
Calgary, Alberta
We may be seeing the last of our core as it is currently constituted. I do not think we need a rebuild, but a few strategic adds and subtracts.

Here is my recipe.

1) Trade RFA LD Kylington and 2020 3rd to Chicago for RFA C Dylan Strome
2) Trade JG to New Jersey for 2020 1st (ARI), 2020 1st (VCR)
3) Trade C Ryan and 2020 2nd to Columbus for RFA Josh Anderson
4)Sign UFA LW Taylor Hall
5) Sign UFA G Cam Talbot
6) Sign UFA D Erik Gustafsson
7) Sign UFA D Forbort

Hall/Monahan/Anderson
Tkachuk/Backlund/Lindholm
Lucic/Bennett/Dube
Manigapane/Strome/Gawdin

Rieder

Giordano/Gustafsson
Hanifin/Andersson
Valimaki/Yelesin

Forbort

Talbot
Ritter

Expansion draft protected player 7:3:1 (assuming Lucic waives his NMC)

Monahan, Lindholm, Hall, Tkachuk, Bennett, Strome, Dube, Hanifin, Andersson, Giordano, Ritter

Coach: Gallant or Laviolette

Discussion and rationale:

Once again the Flames are too soft and unable to handle a larger and fast team. They have been unable to defeat the trapping style of play or the deep cycle that the Stars bring. The Flames have too many smurfs (Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube, Ryan) although Mangy and Dube don't shy away from the physical stuff and soft players like Ryan and Jankowski. My recipe is to get a bit bigger and hopefully not lose any speed.

Trading Gaudreau to NJ isn't about reuniting him with his family. It is about acquiring picks though. NJ has a stable of young budding stars and a slew of picks in 2020. They lost a premiere LW in Hall and JG is hitting his prime. Pairing him with Hughes or Hischier would be dynamic. The down side to this is replacing Johnny's point production.

Trading Kylington to Chicago for Strome relieves the log jam at LD and opens up an opportunity for Kylington to play regular minutes. I don't think Chicago would agree for a one for one deal, so I added a 3rd round pick.

I'm not sure what Colombus would want for Andersson, but I thought a relaible C and a pick might be enough. Flames might have to add a prospect as well.

Signing Hall would be controversial if the ask was exorbitant. If he could be signed for a reasonable cap hit, the Flames would have parlayed a very good roster player into picks and acquired a somewhat lesser player for nothing. The downside to this would be that the Flames would have to protect Hall at the expense of Manigapane, Dube, or Bennett. A tough call for sure and even tougher if Lucic does not wave his NMC. I chose Mangy as I think Dube has greater upside. In any event, the Flames would have a tantalizing list of unprotected players.

Signing Talbot is a risk as well due to his age (33). But he has regained his form and is a steadying influence back there. The Flames could expose him and possibly lose him, but that is a calculated risk.

Gus and Forbort are cheaper options than re-signing Brodie or Hamonic. Is Gus a #1 D? No, not by any stretch, but he is a PP specialist. Forbort is steady Eddy. Yeah he had a bad game that might cause some to question his bonafides, but I've seen enough to want him to hang around.

Coach Ward - sorry. I was in your corner, but the inability of this team to adapt to current circumstances and the woeful play of the defence has convinced me that you and your staff must also go. I'm all for continuity and I've seen the improvements you've made since taking over from Peters. Bu the litmus test is getting past the 1st round. Get by it and you're in. Lose, you're out. Its that simple.

Tre, feel free to generously adopt any of my ideas. There will be no charge. Honest!
 

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