What are the training camp battles?

[Dbrownss]

Perron was traded a year later after a big season for a late 1st which ended up being a mid late 1st. At no point did we get fleeced. We received an early 2nd along with a former 1st round pick. Fair value even if you weren't happy with it. Perron is still struggling with the 2 best centers in the league.

 

[Celtic Note]

Perron was traded a year later after a big season for a late 1st which ended up being a mid late 1st. At no point did we get fleeced. We received an early 2nd along with a former 1st round pick. Fair value even if you weren't happy with it. Perron is still struggling with the 2 best centers in the league.

I still don't get why we needed MPS added in. It just diluted the value of obtaining a pick and we had plenty of bottom six depth anyway. The salary dump turned into Derek friggin Roy. And Schwartz didn't need room in the top 6, especially if Hitch didn't like Perron.

 

[Dbrownss]

I would guess a boom/bust player. I'd say he's tried to round out his game into a bottom 6 player. I doubt Edmonton was giving up that first though. They suck too bad to cough those up.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I still don't get why we needed MPS added in. It just diluted the value of obtaining a pick and we had plenty of bottom six depth anyway. The salary dump turned into Derek friggin Roy. And Schwartz didn't need room in the top 6, especially if Hitch didn't like Perron.

Perron and Stewart on the 3rd line together would've been pointless. An inconsistent scoring line that can't play defense. Not like reality was much different though.

We also weren't going to get a better pick anyway. Only 1st we could get was from a legit contender, and why would we improve our competition and which one would give a 1st for Perron after the season he had?

Army sold low on Perron, but the value was fine for Perron at the time.

 

[DL44]

Just wished to inquire about Fabbri...

Has he played himself into a 9 game trail... Or has he worked himself into a roster lock? Or is still all up in the air?

Basically... How's he looked?

 

[Dbrownss]

Fabbri is a lock for his 9 games. He would have to go completely flat during that time to be sent down. It's completely in his hands. Hitch is making him play Hitch hockey and work with good but not great scoring linemates. He's basically played with Backes and Brouwer the whole time. 2 assists and he's been playing 1/2nd line minutes. He's also playing PP and PK. Hitch is very happy with him

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Just wished to inquire about Fabbri...

Has he played himself into a 9 game trail... Or has he worked himself into a roster lock? Or is still all up in the air?

Basically... How's he looked?

I believe he's a regular top 9 player this year. He's certainly made the team, and will be starting at the beginning of the year.

The only question is what happens when Berglund returns. Most likely Fabbri is still top 9, but gets occasional healthy scratches in the first part of the year with Berglund and/or Rattie/Gomez getting some minutes.

Its up to Fabbri then. If he plays like he has been, he's the best option of all those guys and will get the bulk of the starts.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Just wished to inquire about Fabbri...

Has he played himself into a 9 game trail... Or has he worked himself into a roster lock? Or is still all up in the air?

Basically... How's he looked?

He's looked good and as others have said, he appears to be a lock to at least get the 9-game trial. How he performs in those 9 games will determine if he stays for the full season though...but if I had to guess, I think he sticks for the full season. I don't see him playing 82 games though. My guess is Bareing injury, he'll end up around 65-70 games. My guess is that Hitch will want to keep him fresh and the Blues should have the depth to do it.

 

[intangible]

Watched the game last night.. thought I was looking at Fabbri and he was making horrendous plays, could barely skate, was a terrible passer. Didn't get the hype. Then they zoomed in, and it was Scott Gomez, lol.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Am I understanding the Hitchcock quotes correctly:
They're taking all these guys on the team bonding trip THEN making the final cuts after watching a few more days of practice? What kind of team bonding can you do with guys who are still sweating out if they are even on the team?

Could they be trying to orchestrate some kind of trade to make room for someone? I don't get it.

I think you can flat-out cut Gomez. If you have 14 forwards then Upshall could stay (with Rattie) but then you have to part with someone when Berglund is back (send Rattie down until you can trade someone?) I guess Paajarvi was dueling with Upshall for a 4th line back-up job.

I feel bad for Lindbohm if he got passed up, but the team probably needs to part with Gunnarson, and Butler got passed too. I suspect Lindbohm is going to eventually become the 7th man in the NHL and never manage to be a regular pairing defender with a healthy roster. The Blues are just too stacked with young defensemen, and Schmalz won't be long before he passes him too.

They let Jackman go. They send Butler down (assuming). Bortuzzo may not have too secure of a job either, but he's cheap.

 

[rumrokh]

My guess is that they're just giving the guys they already have under contract every last tiny chance in practice to convince them not to add more contracts. It's not just a bonding trip. That could be a reason that Barbashev is still with the team. They would rather carry Rattie, Paajarvi, or even Barbashev than sign Gomez or Upshall. Because Berglund is coming back, eventually, and they'll have to make a move of some kind. If that can just be sending a guy to the minors, I think they'd prefer that.

It's also worth considering the new perspective. They're seemingly focusing a lot more on long-term line chemistry and simply letting the guys play. Brodeur and Muller are the new guys and most recently members of successful teams. They might have some input on locker room dynamics.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I thought Barbashev was sent down.

 

[rumrokh]

I thought Barbashev was sent down.

Ah, I missed that yesterday. I think what I'm talking about is still a factor, though. They don't want to sign Gomez or Upshall if they don't have to, otherwise I think they would have made the decision. So they must be hoping that something becomes clearer over this trip. That could be a trade, but it could also be team dynamics or actual performance.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

They are at 27 and need to cut 4 of (5 when Berglund returns):
Parayko, Edmundson, Butler,Lindbohm
Rattie, Paajarvi, Gomez, Upshall

So I predict they cut:
Paajarvi, Gomez, Butler, Lindbohm
It's down to (as I've been saying) Edmundson vs Lindbohm for the left hand spot.
Then Upshall is gone when Beglund returns if everyone is healthy, unless they find a way to unload Ott.

 

[Ranksu]

I suspect Lindbohm is going to eventually become the 7th man in the NHL and never manage to be a regular pairing defender with a healthy roster.

 

[BlueDream]

They are at 27 and need to cut 4 of (5 when Berglund returns):
Parayko, Edmundson, Butler,Lindbohm
Rattie, Paajarvi, Gomez, Upshall

So I predict they cut:
Paajarvi, Gomez, Butler, Lindbohm
It's down to (as I've been saying) Edmundson vs Lindbohm for the left hand spot.
Then Upshall is gone when Beglund returns if everyone is healthy, unless they find a way to unload Ott.

I agree and think those would be the right moves, although I'd be fine keeping Lindbohm ahead of Edmundson too. Edmundson worries me a bit. A few posters here and on the STLToday board said he struggled last night, but we didn't hear that from the coaches obviously. At the same time, I just hope he can stay healthy and doesn't have anymore back issues. If someone on the left side needs to slide up I still feel more comfortable with Lindbohm as of now but it's close so either way I won't be upset.

I'm not worried about Parayko at all. I think he'll be fine.

I also agree that it doesn't really make sense to make cuts until after the bonding trip, especially with the PTOs. Have we really not made our mind up on Gomez and Upshall? I mean c'mon. I know the defense is tough and I'm fine with them taking their time there but I feel like the forwards should be pretty set by now. It is impossible for Magnus Paajarvi to do anything in these practices to change management's stance on him. Between him, Gomez and Upshall, you should be able to make a decision there pretty easily IMO. And from what I've read Gomez has done almost nothing. I don't think he fits our style at all. I think Upshall is really the only one that fits. I could live with Paajarvi as a 14th forward if we want Rattie playing in the AHL, but that's a decision that could have been made before this trip. Doesn't make much sense.

 

[Dbrownss]

I saw a few gaffs from Edmundson last night too. Not enough to make me worry.

I think we're going to end up with the dream defense before December. 0 chance Gunnarsson makes it till then without getting hurt. Hopefully at that point Edmundson(if he makes it) and Parayko have solidified their spots. Lindbohm will end all debate that he's an NHL.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

You're not the only one rooting for Lindbohm. But Parayko is or will shortly be past him. If Edmundson passes him too, then it gets pretty hard to project a lineup where he is in the top 6 while Bouwmeester Pietro and Shattentkirk are all here.

Gunnarsson's days are numbered, and Bortuzzo will probably get squeezed out too.

I hope they do go with the youthful and mistake-prone defense early, so we can watch them solidify by the end of the season.

 

[Dbrownss]

IF Lindbohm goes back to the AHL...Gunnarsson is simply keeping his stall warm.

 

[KirkOut]

Honestly don't see why Lindbohm shouldn't make the team

 

[Ranksu]

You're not the only one rooting for Lindbohm. But Parayko is or will shortly be past him. If Edmundson passes him too, then it gets pretty hard to project a lineup where he is in the top 6 while Bouwmeester Pietro and Shattentkirk are all here.

Gunnarsson's days are numbered, and Bortuzzo will probably get squeezed out too.

I hope they do go with the youthful and mistake-prone defense early, so we can watch them solidify by the end of the season.

Lindbohm don't fight with Parayko. They are totally different page, Parayko is going be stud offensive 'Myers' type of player and Lindbohm is Jackman type of 'fatherish' protect own guys and can play with top2-top4 pair if he don't need carry his pair.

* * *

I just laughed your statement:

I suspect Lindbohm is going to eventually become the 7th man in the NHL and never manage to be a regular pairing defender with a healthy roster

Last week was Lindbohm's 22th birthday. We're talking quite young prospect. In Blues he might be coming season odd man out, thou I don't see it that way, but [mod] you haven't watch Lindbohm's performance (games) to say he won't never gonna be top6 NHL'er. I'm ending this conversation here.

 

[rumrokh]

It's weird to me that one of the first things a lot of people talk about with regard to Lindbohm is his physicality/grit. I like how he stands up for his teammates and doesn't let guys camp out in front of the net, but I don't see that as the primary factor of his game.
I see him more in the mold of an overall guy like Bieksa or Seidenberg (when they were younger). Or some kind of watered-down Rob Blake. He's mobile, jumps into offensive plays even though you wouldn't call him a puck-rusher, makes crisp passes, and is smart about putting the puck on net. He has an edge and will lay an occasional big hit, but he doesn't take it all the way to agitation, and his defensive game is more about positioning and simplicity.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm just getting sick of management penciling guys in and then through no-fault of their own find themselves odd man out. I understand that Gunnarsson can't be traded in favor of 3 rookies on the defense, but I don't see him as that big of a different maker. Lindbohm was sent down last year purely on being the guy out when Gunnarsson returned. Jackman and Butler were up along with Michalek signing. I'm in the minority of I'd risk running the rookies. I think Lindbohm is safe to rely on. With Butler, Harrold and Benoit (they suck, I know). I think they have the LH depth to cover Edmundson if he can't hack it. As someone else said, if they are seeing how well Bortuzzo can play LH, then maybe he's being groomed to play as the 7th.


Lindbohm Pietrangelo
Edmundson Shattenkirk
Boumeester Parayko
Bortuzzo
Butler
Benoit
Harrold

With Lindbohm and Pietrangelo, they player together last year and most of training camp. Hitch signals that he likes then together. Pietrangelo carries that pairing well

With Edmundson Shattenkirk, Hitch has kept these guys together. This is the only risk pairing to me.

With Bouwmeester Parayko, Bouwmeester looks so much better away from Pietrangelo, this pairing has the ability to provide so much offensive power. Bouwmeester can slide up to take minutes for Edmundson and Lindbohm if need be.

I just don't see Gunnarsson providing more then Bouwmeester and Lindbohm, Edmundson looks to a have actually taken his job as Gunnarsson was Shattenkirk's partner.

 

[Meatball]

You're right rumrokh. However, there's one thing that he isn't and that's soft. Physicality isn't the center of his game, but he will not be pushed around, that's the most important thing he brings, IMO.

He was the first in this new wave to bring something that this defensive unit had been sorely lacking on many fronts, especially from an attitude standpoint.

With he and the others in tow, it's good to see that the organization has, apparently, realized the error in their ways.

 

[rumrokh]

I wonder if Gunnarsson's injury might actually work against Lindbohm because even if Lindbohm plays well, the perception will be that Gunnarsson will also play well when healthy. That could mean that Gunnarsson ends up with more of an opportunity to take a spot back.

Consider if Lindbohm were injured right now. I think it's fair to say that once Lindbohm recovered, even if Edmundson were playing well, Lindbohm would be given a shot.

I hope whatever they decide is based on performance and long-term health of the team instead of perceived seniority and imagined recreation of past performance. That was the whole point of letting Jackman go, right?