What are the training camp battles?

[cardsfan]

There are a few things I think are set going into the season, assuming Lehtera makes it back. The sure-thing roster will look something like this:

?-Stasnty-?
?-Lehtera-Tarasenko
?-?-?
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

Bouwm-Pietro
?-Shatty
?-Bortuzzo

So what are the questions, going into camp?

Backes vs. Jaskin vs. Brouwer (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Fabbri and Rattie) for Oshie's top-6 RW spot: One player gets a spot on Stastny's right side. I'd put the odds at Backes 45%, Jaskin 25%, Brouwer 25%, someone else 5%.

Gomez vs. Fabbri vs. Rattie vs. Upshall (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Paajarvi and Barbashev) for Berglund fill-in/replacement duty: One player gets a third-line spot, one gets the 13th-forward spot, and two don't make the team. Just for the third-line spot, I'd put the odds at Gomez 40%, Fabbri 30%, Rattie 15%, Upshall 10%, someone else 5%.

Steen vs. Schwartz: Just based on "feel", who goes where for the top two LW spots. I'd say odds are 80% that Schwartz sticks with Tarasenko.

Gunnarsson vs. Lindbohm: One player is Shattenkirk's partner, one player is in the competition for third-pairing minutes. I'd say Gunnarsson is 90% to win this, Lindbohm 9%, the field 1%.

Bortuzzo vs. Lindbohm vs. Butler vs. Benoit (theoretically also vs. Parayko, Harrold, Edumondson, Schmaltz and Vannelli): Two players gets third-pairing spots, one gets a roster spot. I'm assuming Bortuzzo and Lindbohm are 100 percent to get two of those three spots, so for the third I'd put it at: Butler 60 percent, Benoit 20 percent, Harrold 10 percent, the field 10 percent.

Here's what I think opening day roster looks like:

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Brouwer-Gomez-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves
Upshall

Bouwm-Pietro
Gunnar-Shatty
Lindbohm-Bortuzzo
Butler

Click to read more...

 

[KirkOut]

the only one of those that is really a battle is the Gomez/Fabbri/Upshall/whatever one. The lines are going to be fluid throughout the season and being on the first line or second line or third pairing or second pairing is pretty much meaningless.

 

[Robb_K]

There are a few things I think are set going into the season, assuming Lehtera makes it back. The sure-thing roster will look something like this:

?-Stasnty-?
?-Lehtera-Tarasenko
?-?-?
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

Bouwm-Pietro
?-Shatty
?-Bortuzzo

So what are the questions, going into camp?

Backes vs. Jaskin vs. Brouwer (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Fabbri and Rattie) for Oshie's top-6 RW spot: One player gets a spot on Stastny's right side. I'd put the odds at Backes 45%, Jaskin 25%, Brouwer 25%, someone else 5%.

Gomez vs. Fabbri vs. Rattie vs. Upshall (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Paajarvi and Barbashev) for Berglund fill-in/replacement duty: One player gets a third-line spot, one gets the 13th-forward spot, and two don't make the team. Just for the third-line spot, I'd put the odds at Gomez 40%, Fabbri 30%, Rattie 15%, Upshall 10%, someone else 5%.

Steen vs. Schwartz: Just based on "feel", who goes where for the top two LW spots. I'd say odds are 80% that Schwartz sticks with Tarasenko.

Gunnarsson vs. Lindbohm: One player is Shattenkirk's partner, one player is in the competition for third-pairing minutes. I'd say Gunnarsson is 90% to win this, Lindbohm 9%, the field 1%.

Bortuzzo vs. Lindbohm vs. Butler vs. Benoit (theoretically also vs. Parayko, Harrold, Edumondson, Schmaltz and Vannelli): Two players gets third-pairing spots, one gets a roster spot. I'm assuming Bortuzzo and Lindbohm are 100 percent to get two of those three spots, so for the third I'd put it at: Butler 60 percent, Benoit 20 percent, Harrold 10 percent, the field 10 percent.

Here's what I think opening day roster looks like:

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Brouwer-Gomez-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves
Upshall

Bouwm-Pietro
Gunnar-Shatty
Lindbohm-Bortuzzo
Butler

I got the impression that Brouwer is more dependent on playing right wing rather than left than is Jaškin. Jaškin isn't all that much better on RW than he is on LW. But, I think Brouwer is. So, I'd reverse them IF they both play on Line3. Personally, I think that Fabbri will start the season in The Top 9 in an A/B rotation situation, with him as the "A", as would Reaves, with Reaves as the "B" alternate for the player that Fabbri drops out of The Top 9 (Jaškin). So, Fabbri and Jaškin would alternate at LW on Line 3, and Jaškin would play some 4th Line, and would also replace Brouwer on RW of Line 3 once in a while. That way, Fabbri could get some quality 3rd Line minutes, but not be rushed to take full time work, and Jaškin could still get full time minutes. The Blues' forwards are very flexible and interchangeable, so that Gomez could be added to the Top 9, and the young players can still get their time in, and Reaves and Ott won't be overexposed, as Jaškin, and Upshall, and even Brouwer, if needed, can play effectively on The 4th Line. If The Blues lose 2 forwards, they can go right on clicking, given their depth and versatility.

Opening night lineup:

Forwards:

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehterä-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Gomez-Brouwer
Upshall-Brodziak-Jaškin
Ott-Reaves

The above forward lineup is used 2 out of every 3 games. When Fabbri and Upshall are dropped out, Reaves and Ott move in, and Jaškin replaces Fabbri on Line 3. When anyone is hurt, Jaškin moves up, and Brouwer moves up IF he's on Line 4, or is a better fit on Line 2 than Jaškin.

When Berglund returns, Blues make a trade, or Berglund replaces an injured player, or the least effective forward a team will want to grab on waivers is waived.

Defencemen:

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson-Shattenkirk
Lindbohm-Bortuzzo
Butler

Parayko, Abeltshauser and Benoit will likely get some rial time when a D-man is injured, and later in the season regardless of injury. If The Blues need to use Harrold on The NHL level, they'll be in trouble.

Allen will grab the #1 job for the duration.

Backes will be signed to a reasonable long-term contract, which will give The Blues the flexibility to keep him for, at least, a few more years.

 

[STL fan in MN]

There are a few things I think are set going into the season, assuming Lehtera makes it back. The sure-thing roster will look something like this:

?-Stasnty-?
?-Lehtera-Tarasenko
?-?-?
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves

Bouwm-Pietro
?-Shatty
?-Bortuzzo

So what are the questions, going into camp?

Backes vs. Jaskin vs. Brouwer (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Fabbri and Rattie) for Oshie's top-6 RW spot: One player gets a spot on Stastny's right side. I'd put the odds at Backes 45%, Jaskin 25%, Brouwer 25%, someone else 5%.

Gomez vs. Fabbri vs. Rattie vs. Upshall (theoretically with a great camp, also vs. Paajarvi and Barbashev) for Berglund fill-in/replacement duty: One player gets a third-line spot, one gets the 13th-forward spot, and two don't make the team. Just for the third-line spot, I'd put the odds at Gomez 40%, Fabbri 30%, Rattie 15%, Upshall 10%, someone else 5%.

Steen vs. Schwartz: Just based on "feel", who goes where for the top two LW spots. I'd say odds are 80% that Schwartz sticks with Tarasenko.

Gunnarsson vs. Lindbohm: One player is Shattenkirk's partner, one player is in the competition for third-pairing minutes. I'd say Gunnarsson is 90% to win this, Lindbohm 9%, the field 1%.

Bortuzzo vs. Lindbohm vs. Butler vs. Benoit (theoretically also vs. Parayko, Harrold, Edumondson, Schmaltz and Vannelli): Two players gets third-pairing spots, one gets a roster spot. I'm assuming Bortuzzo and Lindbohm are 100 percent to get two of those three spots, so for the third I'd put it at: Butler 60 percent, Benoit 20 percent, Harrold 10 percent, the field 10 percent.

Here's what I think opening day roster looks like:

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Brouwer-Gomez-Jaskin
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves
Upshall

Bouwm-Pietro
Gunnar-Shatty
Lindbohm-Bortuzzo
Butler

I don't really agree with all of your battle assessments but I do think the final conclusions you came to (your final roster) make sense...although I'd love to see Fabbri force his way in there...but we'll see. Also, as Robb said, Jaskin and Brouwer should be switched.

I agree that if Backes ends up playing mostly RW this season then Gomez likely ends up centering the 3rd line most of the season. I could also see Gomez make the team as a spare forward and then center a top-3 line in the event of injury or poor play from others.

I think that Parayko will be even harder to cut this camp that Lindbohm was a year ago. I think Parayko ultimately starts the season with the Wolves but he'll put up a great fight and I think he spends a good chunk of this season with the Blues.

 

[Majorityof1]

Hitch has said (and granted that means almost nothing the next day) that the lines are fairly set. He needs to decide which LW goes with which center. And which young guy (Jaskin/Fabbri/Rattie) takes the RW spot on Stasny's line. If no young guy steps up, it defaults to Backes. Berglund's injury may change that as he was slotted in at 3C when Backes moves up to wing. If Gomez shows he has enough left in the tank to be a solid 3C, then it still works.

Basically, I don't think you can break it down into direct competitions except for the young guys fighting for the 2RW role. Even that is more Fabbri vs. readiness to be a top 6. If Fabbri shows he can play top 6, he has it. Hitch has said before his only competition is himself and if he is ready, or something to that affect. What happens at that slot will effect every other competition.

For example, Fabbri wins outright, Backes plays 3C, Gomez has no spot on main roster and Jaskin goes to 3LW.

Or Jaskin wins outright, Backes still at 3C, Gomez has no center spot, Fabbri goes to juniors an there is competition for 3LW with Paajarvi et al.

Or nobody wins 2RW, Backes takes it, comp for 3C instead of LW.

On D, its Lindbohm vs. Butler on who is 3rd pairing LD and who is 7th and Bortuzzo vs Emundson vs. Parayko on who is 3rd pairing RD and who is in Chicago. The rest technically could be in the competition, but probably won't be able to get enough traction in a camp without being way above where they are expected to be. As an example, Vanelli has all the upside but has showed recently he is far behind the curve defensively whereas Benoit has 0 upside.

 

[Robb_K]

the only one of those that is really a battle is the Gomez/Fabbri/Upshall/whatever one. The lines are going to be fluid throughout the season and being on the first line or second line or third pairing or second pairing is pretty much meaningless.

Parayko should give Benoit and Butler a run for the 7th D-man spot. Naturally, Blues' management would rather have him play on the First Pairing on The Wolves than sit on The Blues' bench. But, he might look better than Butler, Abeltshauser, Edmundson and Benoit in Camp and the pre-season.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

This is how I'd love the opening roster to look.

Schwartz-Stastny-Backes/Fabbri
Steen-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Jaskin-Fabbri/Backes-Brouwer
Ott-Brodziak-Reaves
Gomez, Upshall

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Lindbohm-Shattenkirk
Gunnarsson-Parayko
Bortuzzo

It'd mean Fabbri and Parayko had great camps and deserve to be there. Also, Gomez would spell Fabbri when he gets his games off.

Assuming Butler clears waivers, he'd come up as the first LHD and then Edmundson after him, I'd assume.

 

[SirloinUB]

Hey Guys, Just looking for some insight into your Goaltending situation. What kind of split are you expecting between Allen and Elliott?

 

[BlueDream]

Hey Guys, Just looking for some insight into your Goaltending situation. What kind of split are you expecting between Allen and Elliott?

I think Allen will start but it'll still be a tandem pretty much.

I'd guess something like 46 games for Allen and 36 for Elliott.

 

[Thallis]

One not mentioned yet could be Ott vs Upshall. Ott's contract could price him out of his job here if Upshall would be cheaper and Upshall outperforms Ott.

 

[KirkOut]

One not mentioned yet could be Ott vs Upshall. Ott's contract could price him out of his job here if Upshall would be cheaper and Upshall outperforms Ott.

How would we get rid of Ott?

 

[SirPaste]

How would we get rid of Ott?

And then what happens when Upshall misses half the season with an injury like every other year

 

[Ranksu]

And then what happens when Upshall misses half the season with an injury like every other year

Did you forgot Berglund and Pääjärvi?

 

[SirPaste]

Did you forgot Berglund and Pääjärvi?

Berglund is out until at least Christmas and Pajaarvi is barely an NHL player, neither of which are suited for 4th line duties anyhow

 

[STL fan in MN]

I could see Upshall making it as the 13th/14th forward.

I would also be ok replacing Ott with him but I don't see a team taking Ott and his $2.6M contract off of our hands.

 

[Majorityof1]

How would we get rid of Ott?

Drop him to the AHL, hope like hell someone takes his contract on waivers. Even if they don't, which I think is likely, we save $950k in salary cap. We can definitely sign a guy like Upshall for that. When he gets hurt, we bring Ott back up or sign another 4th line plug.

Now, none of that is going to happen. Blues might get cap savings, but they still have to spend the money. And teams don't $2.6M for a player in the minors. But if Upshall or anyone significantly outplays Ott, there are options.

 

[Ranksu]

Drop him to the AHL, hope like hell someone takes his contract on waivers. Even if they don't, which I think is likely, we save $950k in salary cap. We can definitely sign a guy like Upshall for that. When he gets hurt, we bring Ott back up or sign another 4th line plug.

Now, none of that is going to happen. Blues might get cap savings, but they still have to spend the money. And teams don't $2.6M for a player in the minors. But if Upshall or anyone significantly outplays Ott, there are options.

Then Reaves and Hitch will loose some 'moral' and team chemistry will go down.

 

[Ranksu]

Berglund is out until at least Christmas and Pajaarvi is barely an NHL player, neither of which are suited for 4th line duties anyhow

Why Berglund don't fit in 4th line and why not Pääjärvi could play in 4th line also? I think all agree here that Berglund would be better then Ott in 4th line. Am I missing something here?

 

[keppel146]

is elliot vs allen even a contest?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

is elliot vs allen even a contest?

Absolutely.

 

[KirkOut]

is elliot vs allen even a contest?

I think the fact that I can't tell who you believe should be the runaway winner says it all. Yes.

 

[keppel146]

Absolutely.

sounds like they make get fairly even time? (fantasy)

 

[SirPaste]

sounds like they make get fairly even time? (fantasy)

Most likely to start, unless one of them gets hurt or just plays too good to take out like Allen did at the end of last season

 

[STL fan in MN]

Why Berglund don't fit in 4th line and why not Pääjärvi could play in 4th line also? I think all agree here that Berglund would be better then Ott in 4th line. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, neither Bergy or Paajarvi are grinders. They wouldn't be effective 4th liners to play alongside Brodziak and Reaves. Heck, Paajarvi's been tried there a few times but that's just not his game.

 

[STL fan in MN]

As for Elliott/Allen it sounds like Allen will start the season as 1A and Elliott as 1B, which is the opposite of last season, but who plays more over the course of the season il again likely going to depend simply on who performs better. I think if it's close though that Allen will be given the benefit of the doubt.