What are the Flames missing?
- Thread starter Conbon
- Start date
A legit superstar. Their first line has sucked for the last several weeks. The only thing keeping them above water at this point is their third line.
Gaudreau and Monahan are solid players, but they’re run-of-the-mill 1st liners that most decent teams have.
The Flames 4th line is also a train wreck, but you can say that about a lot of 4th lines out there.
Gaudreau and Monahan are solid players, but they’re run-of-the-mill 1st liners that most decent teams have.
The Flames 4th line is also a train wreck, but you can say that about a lot of 4th lines out there.
Paperbagofglory
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613Leafer
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Agreed with the bolded. Looking at recent winners, Pittsburgh had Crosby/Malkin + Murray, Chicago had Toews + Keith, Boston had Chara + Thomas + Bergeron, LA had Kopitar + Doughty + Quick, etc.
Down the middle, I think you either need an elite PPG+ centre (e.g. Crosby), or an elite Selke candidate top line Centre to really be a threat (e.g. Bergeron/Toews/Kopitar). Monahan is a notch below that level. I still think you could potentially win with Monahan as your #1 C, but you'd then need to have an elite goalie/#1 defenceman. Smith isn't an elite goalie, and Giordano seems to be showing his age a bit and is no longer a Norris contender.
Calgary has some good pieces at every position, and pretty good depth too. But they're just lacking those core elite franchise pieces that SC winners have. Gaudreau is the only guy who's really a top 5 guy at his position, and winger is the least important piece to build around when it comes to winning in the playoffs.
ThirdManIn
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I think Calgary's D is overrated and has been for some time. Lots of hype. The results haven't lived up to the hype.
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They need to give Gaudreau some scoring support - he's their only true first line forward. Monahan just isn't a first line center. He's pretty one dimensional and way too inconsistent in that one dimension. Ferland is a good power forward but he's better suited as more of a 2nd line winger unless he's got a strong C to play with.
Sam Bennett and Mark Jankowski are 1st line quality talents but haven't been given the chance to show it.
In that vein, they really need a good coach. GG is pretty atrocious - stuck on anchoring Gaudreau with Monahan despite obvious struggles.
They also have a pretty awful group of defenseman when it comes to actually defending.
Their goaltending has been great though.
Sam Bennett and Mark Jankowski are 1st line quality talents but haven't been given the chance to show it.
In that vein, they really need a good coach. GG is pretty atrocious - stuck on anchoring Gaudreau with Monahan despite obvious struggles.
They also have a pretty awful group of defenseman when it comes to actually defending.
Their goaltending has been great though.
torniojaws
Registered User
Not to mention Tolvanen hasn't been really effective in the last 2-3 months. He had a hot streak in the early season, but has since cooled down. In the WJC game against Denmark, he barely made a mark. A dozen weak shots and not that much else as a scorer. Not many mistakes or such, but nothing that would suddenly save the Flames
Mobiandi
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- Jan 17, 2015
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A desire to win. This goes for the coaching staff and the players. This team should be in a playoff spot but they can't stop getting out of their own way.
D's been excellent lately. This team can't score for shit which is the problem
D's been excellent lately. This team can't score for shit which is the problem
Their defence isn't good at defence. People think that they get a lot of points so they must Be amazing when in reality that's not true.
Bottom 5 in the league for PK%. I know that pain and it really hurts your ability to win games, since a penalty usually equates to a goal against.
Bottom 10 in PP%. I also know that pain... Speaks for itself.
Their special teams are very meh.
Bottom 3 in the league for hits. People aren't scared to get into the dirty areas with them, but they manage takeaways through other methods. Still makes them easier to play against.
Bottom 10 in the league for wins when leading after 2 periods. Might be a confidence issue, but they aren't very good at holding onto leads.
The team isn't scoring much either, they are 26th in the league for GF/G. Middle of the pack for GA/G, so they aren't letting in too many goals, but definitely not scoring enough.
Bottom 10 in PP%. I also know that pain... Speaks for itself.
Their special teams are very meh.
Bottom 3 in the league for hits. People aren't scared to get into the dirty areas with them, but they manage takeaways through other methods. Still makes them easier to play against.
Bottom 10 in the league for wins when leading after 2 periods. Might be a confidence issue, but they aren't very good at holding onto leads.
The team isn't scoring much either, they are 26th in the league for GF/G. Middle of the pack for GA/G, so they aren't letting in too many goals, but definitely not scoring enough.
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Bounces R Way
Registered User
Coaching.
Special teams are an embarrassment. That's on the coach. We have players with high end skill and they can't do shit within the system. The personal selections make no sense and our PP for a month was revolving around Gaudreau or Brodie firing it from the point with Brouwer in front of the net. Like wtf, how can anyone expect that to work. Mean while Hamilton and Stone aren't being used even though they both have cannons. Get Tkachuk and Ferland in front of the net and have Hamilton and Stone fire shots at them. And stop with the f***ing drop back passes. When has it ever worked? And get Matt Stajan out of the NHL. Love the guy, great career but he's useless. And once again our PK revolves around him and Brouwer. Get Brodie off the PK, get Brouwer off the PK, get Stajan off the PK and for the love of god stop with the fancy f***ing passes when you can just clear it.
The breakout system is horrendous. Why do we even have Brodie and Hamilton when they are clearly being told not to go for fast breaks. Why? They are both top 30 guys in the league at fast breaks. That should be a giant advantage for Calgary but we don't even use them. They just do the stupid loop arounds and pass it off to the forward at the blue line while the other two forwards sit passively at the offensive blueline. WTF. What is this supposed to accomplish? The amount of icings we have is horrendous.
And we've gotten fantastic goaltending from Rittich and Smith. I can't even comprehend how bad this team would be with goaltending like we got the previous two years.
4th line shouldn't get more than 8 minutes a night. Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway should be getting 15 minutes easy. Until Monahan heals up if he's injured or pulls his head out of his ass they should not be getting spoon fed opportunities like they have been.
We do not have the top defensive top 4 in the league. We have the top offensive defense top 4 in the league. Why is our entire system revolved around completely neutering their style of play.
I fully expect him to incorporate the trap any day now
Special teams are an embarrassment. That's on the coach. We have players with high end skill and they can't do shit within the system. The personal selections make no sense and our PP for a month was revolving around Gaudreau or Brodie firing it from the point with Brouwer in front of the net. Like wtf, how can anyone expect that to work. Mean while Hamilton and Stone aren't being used even though they both have cannons. Get Tkachuk and Ferland in front of the net and have Hamilton and Stone fire shots at them. And stop with the f***ing drop back passes. When has it ever worked? And get Matt Stajan out of the NHL. Love the guy, great career but he's useless. And once again our PK revolves around him and Brouwer. Get Brodie off the PK, get Brouwer off the PK, get Stajan off the PK and for the love of god stop with the fancy f***ing passes when you can just clear it.
The breakout system is horrendous. Why do we even have Brodie and Hamilton when they are clearly being told not to go for fast breaks. Why? They are both top 30 guys in the league at fast breaks. That should be a giant advantage for Calgary but we don't even use them. They just do the stupid loop arounds and pass it off to the forward at the blue line while the other two forwards sit passively at the offensive blueline. WTF. What is this supposed to accomplish? The amount of icings we have is horrendous.
And we've gotten fantastic goaltending from Rittich and Smith. I can't even comprehend how bad this team would be with goaltending like we got the previous two years.
4th line shouldn't get more than 8 minutes a night. Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway should be getting 15 minutes easy. Until Monahan heals up if he's injured or pulls his head out of his ass they should not be getting spoon fed opportunities like they have been.
We do not have the top defensive top 4 in the league. We have the top offensive defense top 4 in the league. Why is our entire system revolved around completely neutering their style of play.
I fully expect him to incorporate the trap any day now
firstemperor
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They need an actual secondary/tertiary scorers but really, their defense has also been poor for how the reliant their team is on them.
Hamilton has as much brain farts as any D in the league right now, the only reason he gets a pass is his age, size, tools, and the fact Gio shelters him all the time. Brodie has been awful for 2 years now. Hamonic has been horrible and continuing his poor play from last year. Your not winning many games when your margin of error for defense is just Gio.
It's similar to the Leafs, we have almost no room for error outside of Rielly-Hainsey- particularly if one of them has an off night- though our forwards have more than made up the gap there.
I think fundamentally, they can still win with their offense. It's not a lost cause. But that defense is no where near as good as it's been heralded and that's where the Flames have invested the most in (in terms of assets, resources, and just general pedigree/reliance for a number of years now).
Hamilton has as much brain farts as any D in the league right now, the only reason he gets a pass is his age, size, tools, and the fact Gio shelters him all the time. Brodie has been awful for 2 years now. Hamonic has been horrible and continuing his poor play from last year. Your not winning many games when your margin of error for defense is just Gio.
It's similar to the Leafs, we have almost no room for error outside of Rielly-Hainsey- particularly if one of them has an off night- though our forwards have more than made up the gap there.
I think fundamentally, they can still win with their offense. It's not a lost cause. But that defense is no where near as good as it's been heralded and that's where the Flames have invested the most in (in terms of assets, resources, and just general pedigree/reliance for a number of years now).
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
They are just good enough to be a playoff team to make it to the second round, or at the most make it to the finals and lose in four.
But they are missing lots. But if they had a franchise superstar centre. But the biggest issue for years was communication within the staff, from management, coaching, and scouting. The scouts don't fish as good and need to do much more research; I find they usually get lucky or luckier when it comes to the first round. The development in prospects is sometimes poor, Sam Bennett for example who is the Flames highest ever draft pick. But they just need to grow out a lot more in terms up behind the scenes. When Sutter managed the team they were headed in the right direction; only fault I saw from him was Mike Keenan.
I find a team like Winnipeg has blossomed in that sense, communication, amazing development, and research everywhere.
But they are missing lots. But if they had a franchise superstar centre. But the biggest issue for years was communication within the staff, from management, coaching, and scouting. The scouts don't fish as good and need to do much more research; I find they usually get lucky or luckier when it comes to the first round. The development in prospects is sometimes poor, Sam Bennett for example who is the Flames highest ever draft pick. But they just need to grow out a lot more in terms up behind the scenes. When Sutter managed the team they were headed in the right direction; only fault I saw from him was Mike Keenan.
I find a team like Winnipeg has blossomed in that sense, communication, amazing development, and research everywhere.
MardyBum
Registered User
This happened 
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/it-is-time-to-talk-about-sean-monahan.2420665/page-2
Monahan - 2 points in 9 games since that thread was created
JG - 4 points in 9 games since that thread was created
Ferland - 4 points in 9 games since that thread was created
OKG jinxed the first line!!
In all seriousness, they're not scoring. You can't win if you don't score.
Outside of 1 game against Vancouver Jankowski and Bennett aren't scoring at a decent clip.
How to remedy that? Add an offensive W? Shuffle the lines? Would Flames fans want to trade for one or is there someone to bring up? Mangiapane's having a great season in the AHL, would he fit?
Who knows, maybe this post will un-jinx them
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/it-is-time-to-talk-about-sean-monahan.2420665/page-2
Monahan - 2 points in 9 games since that thread was created
JG - 4 points in 9 games since that thread was created
Ferland - 4 points in 9 games since that thread was created
OKG jinxed the first line!!
In all seriousness, they're not scoring. You can't win if you don't score.
Outside of 1 game against Vancouver Jankowski and Bennett aren't scoring at a decent clip.
How to remedy that? Add an offensive W? Shuffle the lines? Would Flames fans want to trade for one or is there someone to bring up? Mangiapane's having a great season in the AHL, would he fit?
Who knows, maybe this post will un-jinx them
Baxterman
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This is such absolute crap it is laughable.
They are 1st line quality guys who have played together for most of the season and are on pace for 35 and 30 points?
But Sean Monahan who has multiple 60 point seasons isn't a top line talent?
Baxterman
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They are missing depth scoring.
The second best scoring line is used as the defensive shut down line (and has 2 guys better suited for that role than a scoring role) so it limits their ability to consistently provide offense.
The 3rd line that everyone loves is on pace for the guys to get 30-35 points which isn't close to enough as a support for the top line and have scored their points in bunches rather than consistently providing a secondary option.
So it leaves us screwed when Gaudreau and Monahan go cold. It doesn't help that the 3rd member on that line relies 100% on them and can't create anything on his own so he can't help get them out of a cold streak or carry the load if they are off.
The lack of defense scoring hasn't helped at all either and is a little surprising.
This has us relying on Gaudreau and Monahan way too much and while they are good 1st liners they are not at the Crosby level where they can be expected to carry the whole offense.
Having another forward (likely center at this point) to carry a 2nd line or to pair with Gaudreau so Monahan can pair with Tkachuk would be huge. It allows Backlund to slot down into the shut down role and provide some much needed secondary scoring rather than having to provide the offensive threat when the top line is slow.
Another option would be getting a legit top line RW and just hope a stacked top line can carry the load and that the addition of a quality player would help get Gaudreau and Monahan going.
Either way tough adds to get in the middle of the season when we already have moved a lot of pieces in the past offseason.
The second best scoring line is used as the defensive shut down line (and has 2 guys better suited for that role than a scoring role) so it limits their ability to consistently provide offense.
The 3rd line that everyone loves is on pace for the guys to get 30-35 points which isn't close to enough as a support for the top line and have scored their points in bunches rather than consistently providing a secondary option.
So it leaves us screwed when Gaudreau and Monahan go cold. It doesn't help that the 3rd member on that line relies 100% on them and can't create anything on his own so he can't help get them out of a cold streak or carry the load if they are off.
The lack of defense scoring hasn't helped at all either and is a little surprising.
This has us relying on Gaudreau and Monahan way too much and while they are good 1st liners they are not at the Crosby level where they can be expected to carry the whole offense.
Having another forward (likely center at this point) to carry a 2nd line or to pair with Gaudreau so Monahan can pair with Tkachuk would be huge. It allows Backlund to slot down into the shut down role and provide some much needed secondary scoring rather than having to provide the offensive threat when the top line is slow.
Another option would be getting a legit top line RW and just hope a stacked top line can carry the load and that the addition of a quality player would help get Gaudreau and Monahan going.
Either way tough adds to get in the middle of the season when we already have moved a lot of pieces in the past offseason.
Mr Positive
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imo they need a boring but talented Dman like Larsson
Also, like others have said, the special teams.
That 2nd point is a point of tragedy for the Oilers as well. Our special teams are beyond awful. I don't know if our PK is still historically bad, but it is good awful.
Also, like others have said, the special teams.
That 2nd point is a point of tragedy for the Oilers as well. Our special teams are beyond awful. I don't know if our PK is still historically bad, but it is good awful.
Baxterman
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Uh no thanks.
We already have a Larssen guy in Hamonic and 3 other guys that are much more talented in Hamilton, Gio and Brodie.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Sean Monahan has been playing like absolute trash for over a month. He's too inconsistent to be a first line player and has never produced like one without Johnny Gaudreau.
