Speculation: What’s wrong with this team?

[Dr Beinfest]

@Egblad I realize modding is probably a pain in the butt but does the overwhelming poll response here not indicate we need a thread to talk about it…

 

[KW]

Now there’s no doubt: it’s the coach.

Except that Zito hired him, so it’s really Zito, even though it’s Maurice.

 

[FrolikFan67]

As of now 11th worst in the league, 9th worst points %.

8pts out of a playoff spot with a game in hand.

We’ll just have to see how things look when everyone is back in there. I think they’ll have a better second half. May be too little too late but I don’t think they’ll remain this bad or worse than this. You’d like to think Barkov bounces back in some fashion, that Bennett can start scoring to some extent, that Lundell starts going a little, Duclair can help, etc. just like how things reverted to the mean for this season vs last year, things should start reverting to the mean for this season

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

A lot.

Last night we had 7 guys on the roster who shouldn’t even be in the league.

 

[Egblad]

@Egblad I realize modding is probably a pain in the butt but does the overwhelming poll response here not indicate we need a thread to talk about it…

I unlocked the rant thread.

 

[FinlandPanther]

This team has 0 creativity on offense anymore. They just look like they are playing to play at this point. Low event hockey is one thing, but you’re going to lose plenty of games if you play low event hockey on offense which is so easy to defend and still play high event high danger chances against hockey on defense. This team blocks 0 shots. But every other team they play gets down to block shots. Don’t get me wrong, Bruno just let the guys play but they had fun and they at least were excited to watch. Maurice stripped any semblance of what made this team good last season. They are seriously nauseating to watch. I expected them to be a wild card team, but where they are now is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

This team has 0 creativity on offense anymore. They just look like they are playing to play at this point. Low event hockey is one thing, but you’re going to lose plenty of games if you play low event hockey on offense which is so easy to defend and still play high event high danger chances against hockey on defense. This team blocks 0 shots. But every other team they play gets down to block shots. Don’t get me wrong, Bruno just let the guys play but they had fun and they at least were excited to watch. Maurice stripped any semblance of what made this team good last season. They are seriously nauseating to watch. I expected them to be a wild card team, but where they are now is absolutely unacceptable.

Watched the game last night with @Panthers Propaganda. Was my first game in at least a month. The team scored then just kinda died? Super weird. Everyone seems uninterested.

Absolutely right about zero creativity, and the young guys line got 6 mins the whole game!

Gonna be a long year.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Watched the game last night with @Panthers Propaganda. Was my first game in at least a month. The team scored then just kinda died? Super weird. Everyone seems uninterested.

Absolutely right about zero creativity, and the young guys line got 6 mins the whole game!

Gonna be a long year.

Yeah like I said they are completely neutered. I’m not surprised Tkachuk does well in this system Becuase he’s always around the net and while he is immensely skilled, he relies more on garbage goals and grit with those sweet hands. Maurice took away everything that made them great. Like I said you can’t kill the offense and make them suck even more on defense. That’s why they are terrible.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

You can't build up cores on the fly. Secondly, this team has taken how many directions after the 2015 -2016 season (actually it started within the 2015 - 2016 season)? And didn't follow all the way through with the rebuild they had previously started.
That's the difference between the teams that make it to full potential and the teams that don't. This team got lucky when Q became available when he did. And that almost salvaged this thing. But then that luck turned completely around.
Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, Colorado, and Tampa Bay, all followed through on the their rebuilds without deviating.
At this point IMO, the only hope for a SC is whenever they do the next rebuild, they follow it all the way through. I think they just pushed it further down the road with this retool though. It could happen, they could win a SC before doing a rebuild, but it's a very long shot IMO.

 

[5 Hole]

Just saw that we’re #2 in the NHL in penalty minutes. Nice to see we’re top 3 in something.

 

[BB88]

For the ones that don’t blame Maurice at all because of all the injury issues/cap I ask why is he the coach making millions if he brings nothing to the table?

Colorado is in an absolute nightmare injury slump and they keep winning and fighting.

Toronto has missed half their defense, 3 top3 Dmen and just keep winning.
Boston was missing their franchise guys and kept winning.

Did those Islanders teams go for deep playoff runs because the roster was elite or did the coach play a part?

Vegas turned their play around 180 when they made a coaching change.
Winnipeg looks 180 on last season after getting a new coach.


I can’t think really anything Florida is good at or looks good at.

Yes Zito has made multiple mistakes during the last 12 months but I just can’t get the amount of excuses the coach is getting.

Yeah they were expected to be worse than last year, that’s a given as they were the presidenths trophy winners.
Yes they’ve had injuries just like basically every other team.
All that shouldn’t have lead to being 8 points out of a playoff spot with Montreal& Detroit.
If someone said that in offseason they would have been laughed out


Also I’d like to hear the reasoning from all the twitter adv stats guys on having them as a top5 contender with that blueline. If Zito thinks that’s enough and not just a 1 year creation because of cap he needs to be fired on the spot.
Just signing both Staal brothers was an abysmal vision/move by Zito

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I can’t think really anything Florida is good at or looks good at.

Zito would tell you that the advanced stats look magnificent. It's just that the other teams have been extremely lucky against the Panthers.

 

[iam76]

all i want for christmas is last years team back... and maybe some draft picks

 

[Dread Clawz]

You can't build up cores on the fly. Secondly, this team has taken how many directions after the 2015 -2016 season (actually it started within the 2015 - 2016 season)? And didn't follow all the way through with the rebuild they had previously started.
That's the difference between the teams that make it to full potential and the teams that don't. This team got lucky when Q became available when he did. And that almost salvaged this thing. But then that luck turned completely around.
Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, Colorado, and Tampa Bay, all followed through on the their rebuilds without deviating.
At this point IMO, the only hope for a SC is whenever they do the next rebuild, they follow it all the way through. I think they just pushed it further down the road with this retool though. It could happen, they could win a SC before doing a rebuild, but it's a very long shot IMO.

You can't rebuild with Barkov, Tkachuk, Swaggy, Lundell, Ekblad, Forsling etc. anyway. They wouldn't be bad enough. No way they'd out tank Chicago, Anaheim, Columbus etc. And then the odds are that you'd miss out on the Bedards and Misas. You'd get the next tier of prospects. And the Panthers know all to well how that story goes. The Panthers' best shot is doing what Zito is doing now.

 

[pantherbot]

For the ones that don’t blame Maurice at all because of all the injury issues/cap I ask why is he the coach making millions if he brings nothing to the table?

Colorado is in an absolute nightmare injury slump and they keep winning and fighting.

Toronto has missed half their defense, 3 top3 Dmen and just keep winning.
Boston was missing their franchise guys and kept winning.

Did those Islanders teams go for deep playoff runs because the roster was elite or did the coach play a part?

Vegas turned their play around 180 when they made a coaching change.
Winnipeg looks 180 on last season after getting a new coach.


I can’t think really anything Florida is good at or looks good at.

Yes Zito has made multiple mistakes during the last 12 months but I just can’t get the amount of excuses the coach is getting.

Yeah they were expected to be worse than last year, that’s a given as they were the presidenths trophy winners.
Yes they’ve had injuries just like basically every other team.
All that shouldn’t have lead to being 8 points out of a playoff spot with Montreal& Detroit.
If someone said that in offseason they would have been laughed out


Also I’d like to hear the reasoning from all the twitter adv stats guys on having them as a top5 contender with that blueline. If Zito thinks that’s enough and not just a 1 year creation because of cap he needs to be fired on the spot.
Just signing both Staal brothers was an abysmal vision/move by Zito

It's not that Maurice couldn't be better or we could be better off with a different coach, it's that top players and underperformed and the roster just isn't that deep.

The teams you're citing are not comparables. Leafs, Avs, Bruins all have much better rosters than we have, healthy or injured. Jets are benefiting from much better play from Helle and their points are inflated by OT/SO (we actually have same amount of regulation wins as Jets), Knights are a lot healthier than last year.

How many successful teams are there with no top center, dman, and goalie?

In your same post criticizing Maurice, you also say it's unacceptable to be icing this defense. Then add inconsistent goaltending... Then add poor forward depth...

Yeah maybe a better coach could get more out of this roster, but there's a lot more issues that have contributed to where we are today than mediocre coaching.

Also, those pining for last year's team, we were only 7th in regulation wins. Points were inflated by extra OT/SO wins with Barkov/Huber easy button. So with injuries, less deep roster, less consistent goaltending, is it that surprising we're now back in the middle?

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

You can't rebuild with Barkov, Tkachuk, Swaggy, Lundell, Ekblad, Forsling etc. anyway. They wouldn't be bad enough. No way they'd out tank Chicago, Anaheim, Columbus etc. And then the odds are that you'd miss out on the Bedards and Misas. You'd get the next tier of prospects. And the Panthers know all to well how that story goes. The Panthers' best shot is doing what Zito is doing now.

I didn't mean they had to start now. But the only people that matter really, are Barkov and Ekblad though. They are not winning anything without those two at their peak. So, once those two are past their peak, they could just sell off whatever and start a rebuild anyway.

 

[Dread Clawz]

I didn't mean they had to start now. But the only people that matter really, are Barkov and Ekblad though. They are not winning anything without those two at their peak. So, once those two are past their peak, they could just sell off whatever and start a rebuild anyway.

The thing is though, Barkov will probably be great into his mid-30's. It would also be foolish to trade a good two-way center like Lundell when he'll be in his prime. The next rebuild is so far off it's not even worth thinking about. Maybe after 2030, the Panthers will rebuild. Sell off Barky, Tkachuk, Ek etc. Maybe keep Lundell around, and maybe Knight as a goalie. But then once they get good, if they get good, it'll be like the mid-2030's. The only Cats team worth following is the one we have right now. All our top players are 21-27 years old. They have several years of contention for the Cup. With the right tweaks, and a prospect or two maturing, it can be done.

 

[KW]

What really sucks is that Mo takes the slowest D and PK in the league and tries to play shutdown D in our own zone. Never gonna work right.

 

[scholl]

That's the difference between the teams that make it to full potential and the teams that don't. This team got lucky when Q became available when he did. And that almost salvaged this thing. But then that luck turned completely around.

Florida curse. When Q was let go, they should have brought in a new Q. That didn't happen.

For the ones that don’t blame Maurice at all because of all the injury issues/cap I ask why is he the coach making millions if he brings nothing to the table?

Maurice is acting like he is coaching a team like Ducks at the bottom of the table and not the team that won the regular season few months ago. Of course, Zito gave him a weak blue line and not the depth in offense that Q/Bruno had but where is that passion, fun and willingness to score goals. I don't understand at all that he wanted the team to play some kind of playoff style hockey in the regular season when the defense was the weakness in the roster and when it wasn't Florida type of hockey in the first place. He is coaching in the wrong locker room. The team has lost its identity and players don't have any self-confidence. Tkachuk has but he came from a different organization. "Florida guys" don't know what the heck is going on.

 

[GermanPanther]

all i want for christmas is last years team back... and maybe some draft picks

From the Office standpoint ou., 1 of the 2 trades we made last Year where is a mistake, you cant throw away Draft picks like giveaways. Special when you have hard contract talks in the Offseason.
And the Outcome is easy, we have holes big and wide and nothing to fill the holes and nothing to work with.

I wouldnt say the Huberdeau was a mistake, because the trade works out for both Sides.
But what is missing and still missing and from there we have to work on, no depth, prospect development in Florida is horrible. Teams like Boston or other developing programs, get 2nd round picks and other picks in addition only from Players who doesnt reach the Main Team. So depth is a must and developing Player is a must for good and bad Times.
Still wondering why Kinner who developed more then nothing year over year still Coach of this AHL Team.

that is also the problem why we must play with Player old and expierenced.

What is also wrong with this Team, Ekblad this Guy is on a complete fall. 24 games 14 Points -14 that shows already who keep his back all the Season before. And Core Player should hold other not getting hold from other.
I would say buy him out or give him a new space his Game is horrible, one time boomer that doesnt work. But with next 2 years singing Bonus make it more worse. and make savings pretty low. Who ever made this contract, maybe oversaw something who might better work for us in his late Years.

Same with Bob but next year 5 Million Bonus. Something has to change and for the Change we need space.
Next Year the new Knight contract hits okay that might can be solved with the Horn contract but that means also only 800k more space, maybe the yandle Buyout is also sloved in his Bonus Year.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Didn't know where to post this but we need these two to hit their 80-85% ceilings in the next few years.

Didn't know Lundells dad was a pro goalie, cool bit of info there.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Maurice is acting like he is coaching a team like Ducks at the bottom of the table and not the team that won the regular season few months ago. Of course, Zito gave him a weak blue line and not the depth in offense that Q/Bruno had but where is that passion, fun and willingness to score goals. I don't understand at all that he wanted the team to play some kind of playoff style hockey in the regular season when the defense was the weakness in the roster and when it wasn't Florida type of hockey in the first place. He is coaching in the wrong locker room. The team has lost its identity and players don't have any self-confidence. Tkachuk has but he came from a different organization. "Florida guys" don't know what the heck is going on.

Maurice is right though. There's no point in getting to the playoffs if you don't have a game that can win in the playoffs. Last playoffs proved "Florida hockey" doesn't work when it matters. I do think he can loosen the reigns a bit occasionally in the regular season....it's tough though. He is trying to ingrain a certain style, even mindset...into these guys. Something that is basically opposite to what they lived under Q and Bruno.

Didn't know where to post this but we need these two to hit their 80-85% ceilings in the next few years.

Didn't know Lundells dad was a pro goalie, cool bit of info there.

I think Lundell takes a big step forward next season. He's not quite strong and big enough yet.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

The thing is though, Barkov will probably be great into his mid-30's. It would also be foolish to trade a good two-way center like Lundell when he'll be in his prime. The next rebuild is so far off it's not even worth thinking about. Maybe after 2030, the Panthers will rebuild. Sell off Barky, Tkachuk, Ek etc. Maybe keep Lundell around, and maybe Knight as a goalie. But then once they get good, if they get good, it'll be like the mid-2030's. The only Cats team worth following is the one we have right now. All our top players are 21-27 years old. They have several years of contention for the Cup. With the right tweaks, and a prospect or two maturing, it can be done.

That's great. But that doesn't mean it's good enough to be the best team in the league. And that's all that matters. They still are not good enough to beat everyone else. Barkov at his peak is the only way they have a chance to win the cup. The key word is at his "peak". I didn't say they have to fall off a cliff. The other teams are not going to give any slack because Barkov is pretty good for his age.
I mean that timeline that you gave is still quicker than trying to hold on to this not good enough team, and then deciding to do a rebuild. And I'm sorry, Lundell and Knight are not moving the needle towards a cup. Just like most of the other players. Like I said, without Barkov and Ekblad at their peak, it's just mostly mediocrity. Other teams in the league, true contenders, can match up with that easily.

 

[Dread Clawz]

That's great. But that doesn't mean it's good enough to be the best team in the league. And that's all that matters. They still are not good enough to beat everyone else. Barkov at his peak is the only way they have a chance to win the cup. The key word is at his "peak". I didn't say they have to fall off a cliff. The other teams are not going to give any slack because Barkov is pretty good for his age.
I mean that timeline that you gave is still quicker than trying to hold on to this not good enough team, and then deciding to do a rebuild. And I'm sorry, Lundell and Knight are not moving the needle towards a cup. Just like most of the other players. Like I said, without Barkov and Ekblad at their peak, it's just mostly mediocrity. Other teams in the league, true contenders, can match up with that easily.

They are close to the pinnacle. They have several years to figure it out, make tweaks, let a couple prospects mature. I don't know why it sounds like you just assume failure. You really want to rebuild. Let's say they rebuild tomorrow. You can't trade Barkov. That alone keeps them out of the bottom of the basement. So you are hoping for very slim odds to win the lottery. Some other guys you probably can't even sell off for varying reasons. They are too good to get a Bedard, Fantilli, Michkov, Kiviharju, Misa. And even if they were, tanking doesn't work like it did even 10 years ago. Look at Arizona, they got screwed out of a top 2 pick, and now they are slightly better this season and will probably also miss out on Bedard, Fantilli, and Michkov. Their grand masterplan of being godawful and trying to nab the #1 pick for multiple years has crashed and burned. They have several great prospects, but their future outlook doesn't look that great honestly. They look like they might be the second coming of the 00's Panthers. Bad but not bad enough to get top 2 picks. I don't see a future powerhouse there. Unless they trade Chychrun and somehow plummet to the very bottom for the next couple years.

We are near the top now. So it makes no sense to tear it down. If we rebuild tomorrow, it might take us more than 5 years to get back to this point. And no guarantee of continued advancement. We've also depleted our draft picks for the next few years.

Where did I say Lundell and Knight are moving the needle? I said if we rebuild, we probably keep them as they will still be young-ish and in their primes. And you're still gonna need a goalie and a top 6 two-way center.

 

[ScottyMascotty]

Maurice is right though. There's no point in getting to the playoffs if you don't have a game that can win in the playoffs. Last playoffs proved "Florida hockey" doesn't work when it matters.

Their hockey in 2022 playoffs didn't look like "Florida hockey" as opposed to 2021 playoffs.