Were there serious talk about 100 goals in season?

[alko]

Gretzky, Hull, Lemieux, Bure, Mogilny, Selänne - all of them did monster seasons in goals. But at that time, when they peaked - did the media and fans talked about 100 goals season?

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[The Panther]

I think it was mentioned in the media a bit during 1981-82 when Gretzky had his 92 goal year. After that, I can't recall it being seriously talked about ever again, probably because nobody did better than 50 goals in the first half of the season again.

Gretzky's quote some years later was that he "probably should have pushed myself more" to reach 100 goals. He did spent about two weeks in March or so of 1982 setting up Dave Lumley, who ended up having a consecutive game goal-scoring streak.

Amazingly, Wayne went six games in a row without a goal during his 92-goal season (game 67 through 72).

In 1983-84, Wayne only went four games in a row without a goal, and he did it only once (in December '83).

In 1988-89, Mario twice went three games in a row without a goal (in February and in early March '89).

In 1990-91, Brett Hull went only two games maximum (!) without scoring a goal. He did the two-games thing five times, but no more than two, which is incredible.


I've always though that if we isolate goal-scoring only (which is kind of bogus, but anyway...) that Brett Hull's big season is the most impressive goal-season since expansion. My reason is that he was the most consistent, as we see with no more than two games at a time without a goal. Gretzky was primarily focused on playmaking, and so he tended to score goals in bunches (for example he scored 9 goals in two games at one point, then later went six without a goal). Mario was more evenly divided in goals and assists, and probably scored goals more consistently than Gretzky, but did have his three-game "slump" a couple of times. Unlike both Lemieux and Gretzky, Hull also increased his goal-scoring pace after the All Star game (41 goals in 30 games) and didn't even slow down when Adam Oates got injured. Hull in 1990-91 scored goals in more NHL games than any other player, ever. (He scored goals in 56 regular season games.)

 

[Doctor No]

Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, March 28, 1982.

 

[Doctor No]

Philadelphia Inquirer, October 4, 1982.

 

[Doctor No]

Poughkeepsie Journal, October 1, 1989 (Lemieux):

 

[Doctor No]

Cincinnati Enquirer, October 9, 1985.

 

[Doctor No]

Minneapolis Star Tribune, March 17, 1991 (Brett Hull).

 

[Doctor No]

That's a smattering - I spent most of my efforts looking for non-Gretzky comments; there were others on Lemieux and Hull, but not much else with serious discussion. A lot about Gretzky, of course.

 

[tony d]

Not much that I can recall and I've been a fan since 1989. Would be cool to see it happen but I doubt it given this era's low scoring.

 

[Killion]

That's a smattering - I spent most of my efforts looking for non-Gretzky comments; there were others on Lemieux and Hull, but not much else with serious discussion. A lot about Gretzky, of course.

Yeah, I vaguely recall people joking about it in the late 60's & early 70's, Phil Esposito, but beyond that no. Nor can I find anything on-line, archived news stories, commentary from the era.... What I did find however that was rather interesting &if not posted was a list of 70+ goal scorers shot / success %'s, with Esposito well below everyone else. Had he the accuracy & luck of Gretzky, Lemieux,, Hull etc... he wouldve easily hit 100, more in fact.

Lemieux 85G / 27.2%
Gretzky 87G / 26.7% & @ 92G / 24.9%

... then ya get Hull, Kurri etc....

Esposito 76G / 13.8% ........... huh?

thats alotta rubber, volume, low quality Doc. Fire it right at ya most of the time. Why worry?

 

[Tarantula]

Phil took a couple of swipes at some of them! Perhaps the peppered up shot count worked against him as well!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Minneapolis Star Tribune, March 17, 1991 (Brett Hull).

yes, i remember the 100 talk after hull's 86 point season. the talking points were oates missed 20 games, hull himself missed a couple, plus he refused to gun for more goals in blowouts and sutter never played him in empty net situations.

but i also remember that hull himself said, nope it's not possible. everything went right this year and i was still 14 goals away.

 

[The Panther]

but i also remember that hull himself said, nope it's not possible. everything went right this year and i was still 14 goals away.

As I mentioned (above), he only went two games without a goal all season, so it does indeed seem like "everything went right". I can't be bothered to find it now, but sometime ago I remember checking how he did when Oates was injured and his scoring-pace didn't really let up at all.

So... 86 goals with no empty-netters. It's pretty impressive. (Gretzky, I believe, had 4 empty-netters in 1981-82, so he'd still pip Hull there, but barely.) The only thing Hull lacked in 1990-91 -- and I guess it speaks to the difference between he and a Wayne or Mario -- is a couple of four or five-goal games. He didn't quite seem to have that extra gear to go supernova when the chance presented itself. Had he just done that a couple of times, he'd have matched Gretzky's 92 or nearer it.

 

[streitz]

Probably after Gretzky scored 50 in 39, he was on pace for it.

 

[alko]

As I mentioned (above), he only went two games without a goal all season, so it does indeed seem like "everything went right". I can't be bothered to find it now, but sometime ago I remember checking how he did when Oates was injured and his scoring-pace didn't really let up at all.

So... 86 goals with no empty-netters. It's pretty impressive. (Gretzky, I believe, had 4 empty-netters in 1981-82, so he'd still pip Hull there, but barely.) The only thing Hull lacked in 1990-91 -- and I guess it speaks to the difference between he and a Wayne or Mario -- is a couple of four or five-goal games. He didn't quite seem to have that extra gear to go supernova when the chance presented itself. Had he just done that a couple of times, he'd have matched Gretzky's 92 or nearer it.

What if Brett Hull scored also empty net goals. It is know, that he disliked such goals. But if he does, could he do it?

 

[rfournier103]

I seem to recall Lemieux getting off to a scorching start in ‘92-‘93. My buddies and I were convinced he’d get 100. I remember that conversation at the lunch table vividly.

He didn’t, but he was on track for a while.

 

[Ishdul]

Even a 76 goal season is really, really far away from 100 goals.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

What if Brett Hull scored also empty net goals. It is know, that he disliked such goals. But if he does, could he do it?

i don’t think it was so much that he disliked them as much as brian sutter would never have him on the ice to protect a late game one goal lead, same as why he had no pk goals.

but hull did talk about hating hat tricks. he only had four all year, vs 22 two goal games. i remember reading an adam oates quote from that year about how hull would annoyingly pass instead of shoot in late game scoring situations unless the score was close. something like, “hullie, just shoot. the people want to see hat tricks.”

 

[billybudd]

Gretzky, Hull, Lemieux, Bure, Mogilny, Selänne - all of them did monster seasons in goals. But at that time, when they peaked - did the media and fans talked about 100 goals season?

What you have to understand is that there was no omnipresent clickbait media practicing hyperbolic, speculative global one-upsmanship in 1993. Media was a lot more regional and didn't have the mono-cultural characteristics it could be argued to have now.

If such a question were asked in St Louis, that doesn't mean anybody in Boston would even be aware of it, much less asking the same question in the same way.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux 92-93? 97 goal pace in 84 games?

 

[Bluesguru]

yes, i remember the 100 talk after hull's 86 point season. the talking points were oates missed 20 games, hull himself missed a couple, plus he refused to gun for more goals in blowouts and sutter never played him in empty net situations.

but i also remember that hull himself said, nope it's not possible. everything went right this year and i was still 14 goals away.

Yep, Hull missed 2 games that year and there was one game against Detroit on a Saturday night where Hull scored 2 goals early in the 1st period and then had to leave the game because of some mysterious injury. Hullie scored both goals so easily and so early it looked like he was going to put in at least 4 that night. Always thought if Hull had played that whole game plus the 2 he missed that he would of been right there in the 90-92 range.

 

[Big Phil]

Think about this for a second, Gretzky had 50 in 39 by December 1981. Double that and it is 100 in 78 games, which is more or less a full season. Which is something he never did the second half anyway. Not that 42 goals in the remaining 41 games is anything to scoff at, but it just goes to show you that to get to 100 goals you need TWO 50 in 39 sections in a season. So the record that we consider almost unbreakable is something a player has to do twice - in a season - to reach 100. I honestly think that if Gretzky and Lemieux couldn't do it in their prime, and were never even on pace to do it, that no one can.

Michel Goulet once said in an interview that he thought if he played with Gretzky he'd have been the first 100 goal player just because of all of the chances he'd get. He knows this by being Gretzky's wing man in the 1984 Canada Cup. Granted, even that is impossible because Goulet never hit 60 in his career and while Gretzky is great, he doesn't catapult him to 40+ more goals in a season.

Even today, Ovechkin peaked at 65. Stamkos at 60. Crosby 51. Malkin 50. Kovalchuk once had 52. These guys were the best goal scorers we've seen since the lockout. I think we'll see some big goal scoring years from McDavid in the future as he really turned it on in the second half of last year, but it would be hard to imagine him peaking more than 65 to be honest, and I really don't know who else today would be that good. And that's 35 goals away.

 

[The Panther]

It would be great if somebody could score 100 goals, say, within the next 20 years. For that to happen, we have to get a few more Mario Lemieux / McDavid-type talented forwards to emerge at the same time, and we'll have to see a massive change in some aspects of the sport. I'm not talking about goaltending equipment (though further decreases in size are welcome), but rather a fundamental change in the way the game is played -- for example, four-on-four becoming standard or some kind of basketball-like rule ("three in the key") to prevent every team from collapsing in front of the net to block 80% of shots and prevent cross-seam passes.

 

[Big Phil]

It would be great if somebody could score 100 goals, say, within the next 20 years. For that to happen, we have to get a few more Mario Lemieux / McDavid-type talented forwards to emerge at the same time, and we'll have to see a massive change in some aspects of the sport. I'm not talking about goaltending equipment (though further decreases in size are welcome), but rather a fundamental change in the way the game is played -- for example, four-on-four becoming standard or some kind of basketball-like rule ("three in the key") to prevent every team from collapsing in front of the net to block 80% of shots and prevent cross-seam passes.

I don't like the idea of 4-on-4. The game is fine 5-on-5 so long as we go back to the pre-trap days when coaches tried to win, instead of tried NOT to lose and be safe. Hockey can be darn entertaining when it wants to be and we see glimpses of that when teams do it. But there has to be the return of those days first. Maybe even some somewhat selfish play. I don't mean that in a bad way either, because being "selfish" on the ice is sometimes the most unselfish thing for your team. For example, I can't count the amount of times Crosby has burst into the zone and looks to be in the works for one of his patented split the defense plays and then passes it off to a much less talented winger who does nothing with it. Sometimes, be selfish! Take control. McDavid started learning that at the end of the year that sometimes you are the best bet to do it yourself. There are always opportunities to pass, but sometimes your best bet is to go full steam.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Think about this for a second, Gretzky had 50 in 39 by December 1981. Double that and it is 100 in 78 games, which is more or less a full season. Which is something he never did the second half anyway. Not that 42 goals in the remaining 41 games is anything to scoff at, but it just goes to show you that to get to 100 goals you need TWO 50 in 39 sections in a season. So the record that we consider almost unbreakable is something a player has to do twice - in a season - to reach 100.

wow that pretty much ends the conversation