We're not Tanking

[hohosaregood]

I think Brown, Scott, Haley and keeping Sommer are all horrible moves. 3 of them are considered by many to be small or not mean much to the NHL roster but I hate the line of thinking behind all 3 of those player signings.

And I think everyone knows how I feel about Sommer.

His inactivity in FA is nothing new and it's never really bothered me all that much.

I forgot about Sommer...yea I REALLY hate that one too. Brown, Scott, and Haley are stupid signings but it's at a low enough cost that it probably won't bother me too much. It does irk me some though.

 

[Led Zappa]

I really think we should wait to commit final judgement of the off season until we see how the Sharks come out of camp. Maybe we sign the defenseman who fills the need. Perhaps a move with Niemi or maybe a rookie or two look like studs in camp and they get a shot and they actually look like they can do it.

Or none of that and Brown and Burish skate every night with Irwin and Hannan out there and then, WTF?

But can we give a while?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

But really that may be all we can do for an entire year. Wait and deal with it. Nobody thinks we're winning the cup this year anyways, so why all the drama. DW can't get a LD, oh the horror. We can't get to the second round without an LD this year. Who cares if it's not the cup? Wait for the right trade or maybe sign one next year or maybe Mueller is fully ready next year for a top #4 position.

I fully expect this to be a lost season unless a miracle happens, but if they still make the PO's I'll be happy. I love going to PO games. But not at the expense of mortgaging our future. Not this year.

 

[matt trick]

I really think we should wait to commit final judgement of the off season until we see how the Sharks come out of camp. Maybe we sign the defenseman who fills the need. Perhaps a move with Niemi or maybe a rookie or two look like studs in camp and they get a shot and they actually look like they can do it.

Or none of that and Brown and Burish skate every night with Irwin and Hannan out there and then, WTF?

But can we give a while?

Also, getting a 2nd for Stuart is absolute robbery.

Along with very nice deal for Wingels.

Brown, Scott, Haley are ridiculously puzzling (read as: stupid), but I think they could move the later to at any moment, if they wanted to.

The biggest problem I have is that I don't think he even tried for a significant UFA. That's it. Based on what Spezza returned, I would be surprised if Wilson was unwilling to take less than market value on any of the big forwards. That, would truly be a disaster.

 

[matt trick]

The Kings already re-signed Gaborik. And I just vomited at the thought of trading for a Kent Huskins type.

1. I mean lost to injury.
2. Also, I think you know this, but I am not in favor of a Huskins type, just seems like DW speak that we should expect.

 

[Led Zappa]

I wouldn't make prospects untouchable. I would happily trade Mueller + for an established top-4 defenseman, presuming he was a long-term solution.

I know you would. You don't put much value in him. You think somehow based on what very limited viewing of him you have that he's not going to be the player the org clearly thinks he will be.

Aside from his potential there are other reasons to wait and see. ELC contract years would be one.

 

[Alwalys]

Even then it's tough to come to a conclusion with real conviction because they reset expectations. They've pretty much laid it out there that they're going to be a playoff team that doesn't do much damage at that point. So even if they don't address it at all and things play out exactly like that, they've technically met expectations. My beef with the LD spot is only that it has been there a while and they're fairly reactive about it and have just been getting patchwork solutions and if things play out like most anticipate, it will be rushing a prospect into the position. Whether it works out obviously remains to be seen.

If this was the plan all along, that's chicken**** AND ********.

I think it's an ongoing cluster, perhaps driven by some overreaction from Hasso on down. But the team really made the wrong move to begin with and anything they will do until the season starts can at best be mitigation.

Even if DW at this point hits a couple of homerun trades that address every need, it will be still in the context of the team having suffered some unnecessary damage.

 

[Grave]

Wouldn't generally be in favor of tanking but this would definitely be the year to do it.

 

[5H4RK5]

 

[SC2008]

Good for DW. We have a better chance of winning the SC than winning McDavid. As weird as it sounds, we probably have the toughest division to finish last in--maybe only challenged by the Atlantic.

Edm, Cal, Van (Yes, I believe they'll be battling for a wild card and not a top 3 spot despite all their FA signings), and Arizona. Big gap between the California Group of Death and the rest.

 

[richo]

Bottom 10 is still tanking, and that's an entirely possible outcome here. There's tanking and there there is TANKING, we are simply doing the former, not really surprising.

If the Sharks make the playoffs next season though we will have serious problems. We won't get a good enough pick to replace Thornton/Marleau and they won't want to leave still since we made the playoffs, plus they'll be another year older. We could be looking at a completely wasted season, then likely another next season because we made the playoffs, and at best trading Joe and Patty at the deadline for the 2015-2016 season at substantially reduced value. Then we're looking at 2-3 years minimum to draft and develop players to replace them. So 5+ years of no cup.

The Sharks have already missed the boat on next season, they've filled their roster holes with useless 4th liners and did not improve at all in free agency. We are a net negative over last season with no way to reach even last seasons talent level (which wasn't good enough anyway), let alone improve on that. Making the playoff's this season would be an absolutely massive backbreaking mistake at this
So either the Sharks are going to intentionally miss the playoffs (from the looks of it) which is still a tank or they are going to make the playoffs and again go out in the 1st/2nd round and completely screw themselves. Had they kept the previous roster the playoffs were nearly guaranteed, they are choosing to ice a worse team, that's a tank still.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Sharks going nowhere with Loser Joe. If there are any playoffs it woll be 4 games and out. Meanwhile Loser Joe'd value goes down even more.

 

[SnarkAttack]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Sharks going nowhere with Loser Joe. If there are any playoffs it woll be 4 games and out. Meanwhile Loser Joe'd value goes down even more.

Bold prediction. The Sharks have never gone 4 and out in the playoffs. "Joe'd" a good player and he "woll" do better than that.

 

[boylerroom]

Things can get worse.

I'll just say this, I have growing suspicions that our owner is a lying a-hole.

 

[SJeasy]

On depth, Boston had 4 lines when they won. So did Chicago. LA had 11 forwards (Clifford is a trash player/4th liner/reserve). Most winners have had a solid top 4 on defense. Most teams are around a solid top 3.

SJGoalie32 and Jux,
LA didn't have much in the way of push for oddmans reg season but they did step up that push in the playoffs. Many of their goals against SJ were oddmans. I agree that reg season, LA is not big on oddmans and clean entries. Boston wasn't big on oddmans, but they did push for clean entries and they were big on possession.

A couple of notes on DW. he seems to jump the gun on what amounts to trash signings. He signs a lot of guys early who would be available late into FA. Very unusual for a GM to do so. The enforcers and Burish are examples. There are some unfriendly to the Sharks hypotheses that could be behind the early signings.

Barrie,
One of the reasons that DW may lack depth is that he is too quick to jump on lesser trade solutions and overspends for them (Kennedy, Moen, Huskins, etc.). Those draft picks could potentially help with depth.

No true aspirant for contention (CF and beyond expectations) is signing enforcers. That is a very big indicator of DW's intentions. For a building team they block spots where prospects can get experience and for a contender aspirant they reduce lineup skill. It isn't the 6 or 7 shifts because if it were a prospect or a skill player, they would get 10 to 12 shifts. And those extra shifts by lesser players allow the top of the lineup to be fresher. IMO, the stocking of enforcers will likely cost the team roughly 6 standings points through fatigue and skill issues. I think most GMs have figured this out.

In some respects, I do think DW is overly reactionary. He sees a need. He is not ignorant of advanced stats issues but he disregards those issues when the need is strong and he doesn't have an ideal solution on the table. In a lot of instances, he would be better off passing on empty calories. It doesn't help to sign vets who definitely can no longer do the job who may block prospects who have at least a chance of doing the job. He would be better off waiting for the plate of good veggies.

 

[Kegsey]

The same players that can't lead a team have changed a GM's mind.

 

[67 others]

Things can get worse.

I'll just say this, I have growing suspicions that our owner is a lying a-hole.

In what way?

Our GM is a double talking fool for certain. The moves he made this offseason are beyond stupid. So much for not signing vets and letting youth get experience on the team. Instead of vets, he just signed goons.

 

[Nolan11]

In what way?

Our GM is a double talking fool for certain. The moves he made this offseason are beyond stupid. So much for not signing vets and letting youth get experience on the team. Instead of vets, he just signed goons.

Maybe the plan is to play a goon on each line? Make it impossible for our stars to get a cycle going. Eventually, everyone will ask for a trade. (Including players we want to keep for rebuild. )

Seriously, I have no clue what dw is thinking. Maybe this is some big charade of his?

 

[AstroDan]

When SJ comes out ~ 14-4-2 in the 1st 20 games, what'll be said then?

I'm ready for hockey so that these discussions can end and we can talk about facts, instead of tangential invective!
I like DW and I like this team. Good enough for me.
If we take out Doughty in game 4 or 5 last year, who knows...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When SJ comes out ~ 14-4-2 in the 1st 20 games, what'll be said then?

I'm ready for hockey so that these discussions can end and we can talk about facts, instead of tangential invective!
I like DW and I like this team. Good enough for me.
If we take out Doughty in game 4 or 5 last year, who knows...

What will be said is that it's the same old song and dance.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

What will be said is that it's the same old song and dance.

4-14-2 in the next 20.

 

[Barrie22]

When SJ comes out ~ 14-4-2 in the 1st 20 games, what'll be said then?

I'm ready for hockey so that these discussions can end and we can talk about facts, instead of tangential invective!
I like DW and I like this team. Good enough for me.
If we take out Doughty in game 4 or 5 last year, who knows...

This team as is right now, even with scott, brown, burish playing every night is still good enough to win 45-50 games this season. Which will once again put them either 1st or 2nd in the division.

But come the playoffs the teams depth at defense and forwards will be exposed again. And the sharks will again be out in the 1st round.

 

[magic school bus]

When SJ comes out ~ 14-4-2 in the 1st 20 games, what'll be said then?

I'm ready for hockey so that these discussions can end and we can talk about facts, instead of tangential invective!
I like DW and I like this team. Good enough for me.
If we take out Doughty in game 4 or 5 last year, who knows...

Of course the team's gonna be good, he didn't change anything.

 

[Led Zappa]

Of course the team's gonna be good, he didn't change anything.

The season isn't even here and he's re-signed all but one RFA, let Boyle go, dumped both Stuart (for picks) and Havlat (Buyout - Never done before by Sharks).

Looks like nothing to me

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Maybe not a tank job, but I don't want to see the Sharks pick in the 15-20 range in the draft. Can't they at least get into the lottery? That might help.

 

[magic school bus]

The season isn't even here and he's re-signed all but one RFA, let Boyle go, dumped both Stuart (for picks) and Havlat (Buyout - Never done before by Sharks).

Looks like nothing to me

Is losing some bottom pair d-men and a scratched forward supposed to be a significant move? He hasn't done much, which is fine because we are a very good team but that's a luxury only the best team can afford to take

 

[boylerroom]

In what way?

Our GM is a double talking fool for certain. The moves he made this offseason are beyond stupid. So much for not signing vets and letting youth get experience on the team. Instead of vets, he just signed goons.

I don't get a real strong sense Platter really wants to win as much as he wants to own a team or just make money.

The ice girls, the lowered payroll, firing voices of dissent (Drew).

I have no facts just a gut feeling that Platter isn't quite what he claims to be. Time will tell.