We're not Tanking

[Gunnin54]

Sharks GM Wilson: 'We're not going to finish last to try and draft people first or second'
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/536028

Click to read more...

 

[Bowie22]

 

[SHAR KS]

Sharks will make the playoffs and lose to ducks/kings. Thornton and Marleau will then sign a 10 year extension.

 

[Gunnin54]

I know people I'm just as shocked as you guys

 

[hockeyball]

Bottom 10 is still tanking, and that's an entirely possible outcome here. There's tanking and there there is TANKING, we are simply doing the former, not really surprising.

If the Sharks make the playoffs next season though we will have serious problems. We won't get a good enough pick to replace Thornton/Marleau and they won't want to leave still since we made the playoffs, plus they'll be another year older. We could be looking at a completely wasted season, then likely another next season because we made the playoffs, and at best trading Joe and Patty at the deadline for the 2015-2016 season at substantially reduced value. Then we're looking at 2-3 years minimum to draft and develop players to replace them. So 5+ years of no cup.

The Sharks have already missed the boat on next season, they've filled their roster holes with useless 4th liners and did not improve at all in free agency. We are a net negative over last season with no way to reach even last seasons talent level (which wasn't good enough anyway), let alone improve on that. Making the playoff's this season would be an absolutely massive backbreaking mistake at this point.

So either the Sharks are going to intentionally miss the playoffs (from the looks of it) which is still a tank or they are going to make the playoffs and again go out in the 1st/2nd round and completely screw themselves. Had they kept the previous roster the playoffs were nearly guaranteed, they are choosing to ice a worse team, that's a tank still.

 

[Led Zappa]

hockeyball will not be please by this news.

EDIT: I stand corrected. You've decided denial is the better option.

 

[sr228]

hockeyball will not be please by this news.

EDIT: I stand corrected. You've decided denial is the better option.

Even though I don't think for a second that this was the original plan, I love this news!

I don't think tanking was the original plan either. Even minus Thornton it's unlikely the Sharks would have finished in the bottom 10.

 

[SactoShark]

Take a look around the league. Then look at the Sharks roster. It was never an option.

When you tank, you have to be worse than the rest of the league. Not just bad in a tough conference.

 

[Led Zappa]

Even though I don't think for a second that this was the original plan, I love this news!

I don't think tanking was the original plan either. Even minus Thornton it's unlikely the Sharks would have finished in the bottom 10.

I think DW was / is willing to go either route, neither of which was a tank. He either lights a fire under his 2 vets or they ask for a trade. And if they decide to stay the young voices have clearly been given the green light to stand up and rock the boat. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the letters.

Regardless, this never looked like a tank since Pav's was always mentioned as part of the future. Demers is the closest to the core that has ever seemed to be close to trade bait. The other moves, Boyle, Havlat and Stuart were almost a given without actually winning the cup and even then all three might be gone now.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Take a look around the league. Then look at the Sharks roster. It was never an option.

When you tank, you have to be worse than the rest of the league. Not just bad in a tough conference.

The Sharks aren't a bad team despite what the doom and gloomers say.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I think DW was / is willing to go either route, neither of which was a tank. He either lights a fire under his 2 vets or they ask for a trade. And if they decide to stay the young voices have clearly been given the green light to stand up and rock the boat. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the letters.

Regardless, this never looked like a tank since Pav's was always mentioned as part of the future. Demers is the closest to the core that has ever seemed to be close to trade bait. The other moves, Boyle, Havlat and Stuart were almost a given without actually winning the cup and even then all three might be gone now.

That's how its starting to look. I still think Burish will be moved before camp.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Bottom 10 is still tanking, and that's an entirely possible outcome here. There's tanking and there there is TANKING, we are simply doing the former, not really surprising.

If the Sharks make the playoffs next season though we will have serious problems. We won't get a good enough pick to replace Thornton/Marleau and they won't want to leave still since we made the playoffs, plus they'll be another year older. We could be looking at a completely wasted season, then likely another next season because we made the playoffs, and at best trading Joe and Patty at the deadline for the 2015-2016 season at substantially reduced value. Then we're looking at 2-3 years minimum to draft and develop players to replace them. So 5+ years of no cup.

The Sharks have already missed the boat on next season, they've filled their roster holes with useless 4th liners and did not improve at all in free agency. We are a net negative over last season with no way to reach even last seasons talent level (which wasn't good enough anyway), let alone improve on that. Making the playoff's this season would be an absolutely massive backbreaking mistake at this point.

So either the Sharks are going to intentionally miss the playoffs (from the looks of it) which is still a tank or they are going to make the playoffs and again go out in the 1st/2nd round and completely screw themselves. Had they kept the previous roster the playoffs were nearly guaranteed, they are choosing to ice a worse team, that's a tank still.

They may not have improved on what was lost but they're still not bad enough to miss the playoffs. They're the 3rd best team in their division without a doubt right now. That's a playoff team.

Nieto-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Wingels
Torres-Hertl-Kennedy
Sheppard-Desjardins-goon/Burish

Vlasic-Burns
Mueller/Abeltshauser-Braun
Irwin/Hannan-Demers

Niemi-Stalock

That's a playoff team like it or not. Resetting expectations is a good idea if you're being truthful about it. I, as a fan, can live and accept saying that we're a playoff team but not a Cup contending team as long as the organization understands what they need to do going forward in that situation. They have to be very focused on their drafting and hit them and develop their talent...and pray they hit someone that can replace what they will lose very soon.

 

[Mrguy17]

DW's just using EA NHL strategy.
Pretend like you're the obvious worst team in the league, lose the first 10 games of the season and trade that first round pick for any player in the league.
Works in the ea NHL games
-Tank
-Trade
-???
-Stanley cup

 

[Juxtaposer]

We're not tanking, we're doing worse; going back at it with a worse team. Nothing has been done to address the LHD issue, and I doubt anything will be. And we are significantly worse with Burns on defense instead of RW. Wasted season.

 

[Barrie22]

We're not tanking, we're doing worse; going back at it with a worse team. Nothing has been done to address the LHD issue, and I doubt anything will be. And we are significantly worse with Burns on defense instead of RW. Wasted season.

Only thing that will make this not a wasted season is if wilson is fired at some point between now and the start of the next season.

 

[hockeyball]

We're not tanking, we're doing worse; going back at it with a worse team. Nothing has been done to address the LHD issue, and I doubt anything will be. And we are significantly worse with Burns on defense instead of RW. Wasted season.

This is exactly what I'm getting at, and no one seems to be able to respond to it intelligently. There is no way this team is better than last season, and last seasons team wasn't good enough. I'm not interested in making the playoffs, I'm interested in winning a cup, and this team can't do it. Either you trade Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Niemi for substantial youth returns, or you draft high, but if you don't do either you won't accomplish much of anything.

 

[Juxtaposer]

This is exactly what I'm getting at, and no one seems to be able to respond to it intelligently. There is no way this team is better than last season, and last seasons team wasn't good enough. I'm not interested in making the playoffs, I'm interested in winning a cup, and this team can't do it. Either you trade Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Niemi for substantial youth returns, or you draft high, but if you don't do either you won't accomplish much of anything.

I'm with you on this part. If DW had still bought-out Havlat, traded Stuart, and let
Boyle go, but also let Brown and Hannan go, not signed Scott, kept Burns up front, and not acted like his was going to put all his eggs in Mirco Mueller's basket (ie acted like he was trying to fix the LHD issue from outside the org), I'd be absolutely stoked. If we'd simply just cut the dead weight from last season and then acquired a #4 LHD, I'd be singing DW's praises, even with the monkey talk. Instead, he won't blow it up and he won't improve on last year's team. Terrible.

 

[matt trick]

I have a hard time seeing Vancouver or Phoenix catching us. We can only play one of St. Louis and Chicago, who I think are both better, and I can see us sneaking by Anaheim in the playoffs. I think we could have competed with LA, but Wilson neglected to add quality- at fair prices mind you- in free agency. Given he won't trade futures, that means we can't add much quality without sending it out as well.

That said, at the moment, LA is icing two pylons on defense. Their forward depth is so much better than ours, and even if they lose Gaborik, they are still deeper than us. Also, you can bet that Lombardi will use his capital to acquire a top 4 d-man at the deadline. Wilson will complain about the acquisition costs at the deadline, but grab a cagey, Kent Huskins type vet.

 

[Coy]

Can't wait to be the new Calgary Flames in 5 years.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I have a hard time seeing Vancouver or Phoenix catching us. We can only play one of St. Louis and Chicago, who I think are both better, and I can see us sneaking by Anaheim in the playoffs. I think we could have competed with LA, but Wilson neglected to add quality- at fair prices mind you- in free agency. Given he won't trade futures, that means we can't add much quality without sending it out as well.

That said, at the moment, LA is icing two pylons on defense. Their forward depth is so much better than ours, and even if they lose Gaborik, they are still deeper than us. Also, you can bet that Lombardi will use his capital to acquire a top 4 d-man at the deadline. Wilson will complain about the acquisition costs at the deadline, but grab a cagey, Kent Huskins type vet.

The Kings already re-signed Gaborik. And I just vomited at the thought of trading for a Kent Huskins type.

 

[Irbes Mask]

This is exactly what I'm getting at, and no one seems to be able to respond to it intelligently. There is no way this team is better than last season, and last seasons team wasn't good enough. I'm not interested in making the playoffs, I'm interested in winning a cup, and this team can't do it. Either you trade Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Niemi for substantial youth returns, or you draft high, but if you don't do either you won't accomplish much of anything.

There is no intelligent response. What snippets DW has left for you all is hope. Hoping the youth fills in the gaps they currently have. Hoping this cultural change from within will be enough to spur the next window. It's going to be a year of growing pains and they will hurt a bit. Be it Hasso's frugality, DW's stubborn/spiteful nature, whatever you want to think it is, that's what's coming. And the doom and gloomers had better strap in for the ride or start bandwagon hunting, I don' t see many other avenues for them to go at this point. And I'm okay with it. We may see some of the local whipping boys moved at the deadline, too depending on how the 'youth movement' matures. It's going to be an exciting and interesting year, that's for sure.

 

[CrazedZooChimp]

The Kings already re-signed Gaborik. And I just vomited at the thought of trading for a Kent Huskins type.

Well, that'd be better than trading for another Mike Brown type...

If we're not tanking, then does DW just not know how to build a better team? Or not understand what the issues with this team were last season? I think he gets canned after this coming season. Unless we manage to overachieve and get lucky in the playoffs. Why sign so many marginal players if you want to go for it all again? Not to say I don't agree this team is too good to tank, I just don't know why you'd make them worse instead of better.

 

[SouthWest]

This is exactly what I'm getting at, and no one seems to be able to respond to it intelligently. There is no way this team is better than last season, and last seasons team wasn't good enough. I'm not interested in making the playoffs, I'm interested in winning a cup, and this team can't do it. Either you trade Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Niemi for substantial youth returns, or you draft high, but if you don't do either you won't accomplish much of anything.

the return we would get for those guys doesn't actually help us long term, so I don't get the logic for reasons to trade them.

No one is going to give us a blue chip prospect or high first round picks for Marleau or Thornton so what's the point?

As for niemi, take him for what ever if you just want change for the sake of change, but this team really isn't much worse starting stalock.

Dumping Thornton, marleau, and niemi guarantees we fall out of the play offs, but it's still not a tank.

We'd finish just outside the playoffs still having couture, Vlasic, burns, ect on the roster.

Might as well get bounced in the first round as opposed to finishing 9th or 10th in the conference.

Like really what is the difference between drafting 13th or 16th?

 

[FSS]

There never was going to be a tank, a rebuild, or even a major retool...it was all just noise and a major wake up call (and warning) to change the players & management already here. What's really changed for last years Sharks vs. next years Sharks? We've gotten rid of our two worst defensemen, and shifted Burns back to D. We do have a gap to fill at F with Burns going back to D (even though he was horrible), and I'd still like to see a LH PMD added...but neither of those things may happen until the trade deadline, or maybe we throw an offer at a RFA. We've made some small $$$ signings on thuggish 4th liners/healthy scratches (which I have not been a fan of).

I truly believe last years team was a Vlasic injury away from the Cup Final (I said before the series started I thought the LA/SJ winner was going to the Cup), and even though we've mostly done addition by subtraction with getting rid of Havlat, Boyle, and Stuart...I'm damn happy with those moves, and I do believe we have a chance at being a better team next year (and I realize I am in the minority on that). That all being said, I would have liked us to have gone after a FA who fits our needs, and am disapointed that we didn't. I'm even more disapointed in the signings of Brown, Scott, and Haley (wasted $$$, and more importantly, wasted roster spots on dinosaurs). I'd like to throw an RFA offer at that LH PMD or LW/RW right now, and not wait until the trade deadline to make a move.

Even if all we've done going into next season is rid ourselves of Boyle, Stuart and Havlat...great job, and we're a better team for it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well, that'd be better than trading for another Mike Brown type...

If we're not tanking, then does DW just not know how to build a better team? Or not understand what the issues with this team were last season? I think he gets canned after this coming season. Unless we manage to overachieve and get lucky in the playoffs. Why sign so many marginal players if you want to go for it all again? Not to say I don't agree this team is too good to tank, I just don't know why you'd make them worse instead of better.

I don't think it'd be better than trading for another Mike Brown type. Mike Brown is at best a 4th liner, playing 8 minutes a game at best. Even #6 defensemen are responsible for playing 15+ minutes a game.

Here the thing: Considering the Vlasic injury, outside of Niemi, was the biggest reason we lost to the Kings, one would think that the GLARING hole at #2LHD would be a supremely obvious red flag and would need addressing. However, based on what DW has said or done, he either thinks that it isn't an issue, or he thinks Mueller will fill it. Neither is encouraging.

When he says something like "we aren't there yet", that's admitting that he doesn't no how to get us there.