Blue Jays Discussion: We're back, baby. Blue Jays clinch 2020 playoff spot

[canucksfan]

If the Dodgers want him I can see them turning him into something that could make this look bad. He has the vertical arm slot and curveball profile they like in their pitchers. I'm less annoyed by this than the Villar trade though for some reason. At least Stripling is controlled for 3 more years. How do their returns look like in comparison to what we got for our impending free agents?

One thing to remember about giving up Conine is the Jays have a reputation as of one of the better teams for developing hitters. They obviously weren't that confident in him. Striking out at 36% rate as a 22 year old in middle A ball is very bad.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm not annoyed by the Villar deal much at all because I'm apparently lower than everyone else on Conine and Villar fills a really, really obvious hole on this team right now (Panik).

I think I'm higher on Williams, and Conine. If we were tiering Jays prospects Williams/Pardinho/Conine was the bottom of their tier before a gap goes to the next tier. That may be the reason I don't like it as much as I have them in the same tier with Kay, Kloff, Hiraldo, etc. Though Conine perhaps was really weighing that tier down as I would have been completely fine with him here. Perhaps he should have been the start of the next tier.

 

[Discoverer]

I think I'm higher on Williams, and Conine. If we were tiering Jays prospects Williams/Pardinho/Conine was the bottom of their tier before a gap goes to the next tier. That may be the reason I don't like it as much as I have them in the same tier with Kay, Kloff, Hiraldo, etc. Though Conine perhaps was really weighing that tier down as I would have been completely fine with him here. Perhaps he should have been the start of the next tier.

Yeah, and personally I would have had Conine in the next tier, and probably not all that high within the tier either. There's a high ceiling, I just think his chances of making the necessary adjustments to become a major league hitter are ridiculously thin, even compared to other prospects in A ball.

Agreed on Williams, though. I don't mind it because Stripling has multiple years of control and the Jays have a lot of high-upside pitching talent, but this one feels like an actual loss.

 

[theaub]

If it's any consolation Williams is a day older than Kloff. IDK how baseball drafting ages work, did he start his schooling a year late? I don't want to root against a guy now so we don't lose a trade badly, but hopefully maybe being a year older made him look better against his peers.

Never want to root against guys. If everyone we trade sucks, no one will trade with us.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[phillipmike]

Interesting. I like Musgrove. I bet Reese was going back.

 

[phillipmike]

The Trade Deadline Winners, Losers … and a Few Surprises

The Winners

Toronto Blue Jays
While some teams were looking to maximize value beyond the 2020 season, Toronto saw this year’s extra playoff spots as an opportunity and struck, without sending a ton of talent away. The team added two potential starters in Taijuan Walker and Robbie Ray, as well as a starter/swingman type in Ross Stripling. They traded for a nice utility player/stopgap starter in Jonathan Villar. They added to their tower of beef in the lineup with Daniel Vogelbach. Toronto was likely to make the playoffs without adding much, given their 76% playoff odds as we head into September. But with Matt Shoemaker and Nate Pearson sidelined, the club’s depth in the rotation was thinning. Ray and Stripling have struggled this season and Walker hardly provides guaranteed production, but they don’t all have to work out to prove useful to the Blue Jays. The starters added could end up providing strength out of the bullpen or help allow others, like Pearson, to come back in a reliever role and fortify the late-innings. While a playoff berth isn’t a lock, Toronto did what was necessary to shore up a flawed roster in the hopes of playing in October without sacrificing much of the future.

 

[phillipmike]

Ross Stripling has a podcast. Back in July he interviewed Biggio. It's a great listen.

‎Big Swing Podcast: Blue Jays 2nd Baseman, Cavan Biggio + BOTW on Apple Podcasts

They apparently work out together in the off season. They talk about the summer camp conditions, Biggio's approach, Cavan's views on the team, a big of Canadian trivia, etc.

 

[Eyedea]

So what are we speculating the rotation/pen will look like once Shoemaker/Pearson/Giles come back? 5 or 6 man rotation?

Ryu
Walker
Stripling/Ray
Anderson
Shoemaker
Pearson/Roark

Giles
Bass
Romano
Cole
Ray/Stripling
Hatch
Borucki
Roark/Pearson

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ross Stripling is also essentially what we would be waiting 3+ years and hoping Kendall Williams turns into.

 

[stickty111]

Yeah it's a bit pricey but if Stripling returns to form, it's fine.

 

[TopChedder]

So I was thinking today about what the future holds and it's pretty insane. Now we don't know if all will hit their lofty ceilings, but let's say they do we could have (not including pitching prospects)

Biggio
Bichette
Martin
Vald jr
Hernandez
Groshans
Grichuk
Gurriel Jr
Jansen
Villar

That is utterly insane talent lol this doesn't even include our prospects that are years away who will replace some on that list and could make it even more insane.

In my opinion if we play our cards right we could see multiple chips.

 

[Canada4Gold]

So what are we speculating the rotation/pen will look like once Shoemaker/Pearson/Giles come back? 5 or 6 man rotation?

Ryu
Walker
Stripling/Ray
Anderson
Shoemaker
Pearson/Roark

Giles
Bass
Romano
Cole
Ray/Stripling
Hatch
Borucki
Roark/Pearson

15 Pitchers/13 Position Players?

Ryu
Walker
Stripling
Roark
Shoemaker

Giles
Bass
Romano
Cole
Pearson
Hatch
Borucki
Merryweather
Ray
Anderson

Biggio
Bichette
Teoscar
Grichuk
Vladdy
Gurriel
Shaw
Jansen
Villar

Tellez
McGuire
Fisher
Panik(sigh)


I expect they're going to want to get Dolis in their somewhere, and I really wanted Kay in there too, but there's no room.

 

[Eyedea]

So I was thinking today about what the future holds and it's pretty insane. Now we don't know if all will hit their lofty ceilings, but let's say they do we could have (not including pitching prospects)

Biggio
Bichette
Martin
Vald jr
Hernandez
Groshans
Grichuk
Gurriel Jr
Jansen
Villar

That is utterly insane talent lol this doesn't even include our prospects that are years away who will replace some on that list and could make it even more insane.

In my opinion if we play our cards right we could see multiple chips.

You're missing a big one (literally) that's already on the cusp and that's Kirk.

 

[TopChedder]

You're missing a big one (literally) that's already on the cusp and that's Kirk.

Sometimes too many to remember.... it's crazy how much talent we have and is coming. I get that anything can change or happen, but to me this is dynastic talent which if supplanted properly could terrorize the league for years.

 

[MS]

MS wondered which starter would be sent to the bullpen and, based on history, it would be Stripling. He’s worked as a swing man his entire career. He has a few more years of control and they’d be able to slowly work on his issues. There’s no investment in Ray other than hoping a change of scenery and some additional instruction will right him.

Not an unreasonable take ... although on the flipside I'd argue that :

a) Stripling is probably the most likely to succeed as a starter given his age, surrounding metrics and history.
b) The team paid the most for him, so you'd think they'd want to put their top acquisition in a bigger role.
c) Stripling was really only a swing man because LA is so loaded with starting pitching. Same with Urias - both guys would have been in the rotation start-finish last year with pretty much every other team in MLB.

Will be interesting to see.

15 Pitchers/13 Position Players?

Ryu
Walker
Stripling
Roark
Pearson/Shoemaker piggyback

Giles
Bass
Romano
Cole
Hatch
Borucki
Merryweather
Ray
Anderson

Biggio
Bichette
Teoscar
Grichuk
Vladdy
Gurriel
Shaw
Jansen
Villar

Tellez
McGuire
Fisher
Panik(sigh)


I expect they're going to want to get Dolis in their somewhere, and I really wanted Kay in there too, but there's no room.

Other pitchers will inevitably get hurt, so Dolis and Kay will have no problem staying around.

This team really does have an insane volume of pitching, though, and in particular guys who can go multiple innings. You haven't even mentioned Yamaguchi or SRF, who have both been impressive recently. Font needs to be fired into the sun ASAP.

 

[phillipmike]

Jeff Blair says Shoemaker likely won’t be returning this season.

And then said Pearson isn’t a sure thing either and if he does return it might be in the pen.

Hence why they added Walker, Ray and Stripling.

 

[TopChedder]

Jeff Blair says Shoemaker likely won’t be returning this season.

And then said Pearson isn’t a sure thing either and if he does return it might be in the pen.

Hence why they added Walker, Ray and Stripling.

Man I like Shoemaker but he cannot stay healthy. I have been an athlete my whole life and some of the people I train with just can't stay healhy either, it's weird how some people just can't stop being injured.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Sure, I'll keep Will Robertson

 

[Cloned]

Sure, I'll keep Will Robertson

This seems like a bad trade for the Mariners.

 

[Cloned]

I'm not that annoyed with Williams in the trade. Depends on who the 2nd PTBNL is though.

In my mind it's the equivalent of the Leafs trading someone like Robertson for Marchessault, except in this case the Jays actually have "cap space."

 

[Canada4Gold]

Rodriguez was indeed one of out best 30 Jays outfield prospect playing in the GCL.

If you want a less specific top 30 I didn't see him anywhere on any top 30's for us.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm not that annoyed with Williams in the trade. Depends on who the 2nd PTBNL is though.

In my mind it's the equivalent of the Leafs trading someone like Robertson for Marchessault, except in this case the Jays actually have "cap space."

If we're doing NHL comparisons(and I hear people don't like those around here) I'd say it's more Abramov/Abruzzese for Faksa.

 

[Cloned]

If we're doing NHL comparisons(and I hear people don't like those around here) I'd say it's more Abramov for Faksa.

Fair, although I picked Robertson and Marchessault because they're both similar player types, and Marchessault is coming off a down season just like Stripling is despite a history of production beforehand.