Wendel Clark Trade to Quebec in 94-The Toronto Perspective/Reasoning

[Jim MacDonald]

Leaf fan here saying that Clark was overrated, trading Clark for Sundin was one of the team's all-time best moves, and the trade to bring back Clark was absolutely disastrous and one of the team's worst.

I'm very interested to get your thoughts on why bringing him back was so disastrous?

 

[NYR94]

Lacroix did a great job making trades for that Avs team. I miss those days. Seems like the cap prevents a lot of trades from happening because the money doesn't work out. Too bad.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I'm sure Fletcher's logic was that the Leafs needed a quality centre, Sundin, to go along with Gilmour. Clark's body seem to have broken down....it's amazing he stayed in the league as long as he did.
The Leafs decline after the Sundin wasn't the fault of Sundin but other players had peaked and regressed. Then "Trader Fletcher" who considered himself smarter than anyone make bad deals to shore up the Leafs....which led further to the Leafs decline.
Isn't it amazing the Leafs had two of the smartest GMs ever....Fletcher and later someone who considered himself the smartest person in the world....Brian Burke. Thought the Leafs should have more Cups with these two geniuses running the club.

 

[seventieslord]

I'm very interested to get your thoughts on why bringing him back was so disastrous?

well, as you must know, the Leafs didn't just bring him back as a free agent, they traded for him in a very large trade in which they surrendered many young assets

 

[Johnny Engine]

I'm very interested to get your thoughts on why bringing him back was so disastrous?

With that trade, the Leafs gave up a 1st round pick for a 29 year old but rapidly aging (injuries, playstyle, etc) Clark, and a 21 year old Kenny Jonsson for a 26 year old Mathieur Schneider. There were also a handful of inconsequential prospects involved. It was a short-sighted deal for a team that was headed in the wrong direction, and the first round pick turned into Roberto Luongo to add an element of embarrassment to the whole thing.

Ironically, Schneider, while older and less versatile, outlasted Jonsson in the NHL by 6 years, and the Leafs eventually turned him into Bryan McCabe, so that portion of the trade turned out pretty well for the Leafs. On the other hand, trading the 1st when their core was near the end of it's rope turned out about as badly as it possibly could have (the second of 3 times the Leafs did exactly that in less than 2 decades), and there's no excuse for that lack of planning whether you think they'd have picked Luongo or not.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[tony d]

I remember that trade. Yeah Clark was the heart and soul of some of those Leafs teams in the early 90's but picking up Sundin turned out to be the better move for the team.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It was a fantastic trade in the long term for the Leafs but really signaled a change from the blue collar, gritty, never say die Gilmour/Clark teams of 92-94 to the corporate Leafs of Sundin. It was the right move because Gilmour and Clark were aging out, but the team was never the same.

I admit, I never warmed to Sundin (even though he was a fine player) because he didn't have the fire.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm very interested to get your thoughts on why bringing him back was so disastrous?

Giving up Kenny Jonsson and the draft pick that became Roberto Luongo was a massive price to play.

Clark really didn't offer much value in his second stint with the team and the other asset they acquired in the deal, Mathieu Schneider, was soon traded for fifty cents on the dollar to the New York Rangers making the deal even worse.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

well, as you must know, the Leafs didn't just bring him back as a free agent, they traded for him in a very large trade in which they surrendered many young assets

Oh boy.....I didn't know this....gonna read Johnny Engine's stuff here right below ya.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Giving up Kenny Jonsson and the draft pick that became Roberto Luongo was a massive price to play.

Clark really didn't offer much value in his second stint with the team and the other asset they acquired in the deal, Mathieu Schneider, was soon traded for fifty cents on the dollar to the New York Rangers making the deal even worse.

Yikes....wow....this stuff is blowing me away....and is this still Cliff Fletcher as the GM at this point too?

 

[Jim MacDonald]

These videos were really good....wow did Grapes dislike the deal!!!!

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Yikes....wow....this stuff is blowing me away....and is this still Cliff Fletcher as the GM at this point too?

Fletcher was still the GM when he reacquired Clark. It was just the Leaf's luck that the Islanders used the pick on Luongo, a future HHOF. Had the Leafs kept the pick, they could have chosen Luongo. Even if the Leafs still had confidence in Felix Potvin in goal, Marian Hossa and Sergei Samsonov would have still been on the board.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I admit, I never warmed to Sundin (even though he was a fine player) because he didn't have the fire.

it was like ottawa with their own tall european captain, but to a much less drastic extent—why can’t he play with the same fire as when he is on the national team?

 

[The Panther]

I cannot believe that Leafs' fans would actually say that they "never warmed to Sundin", or whatever. WTH? The guy was the franchise's best player and leader for more years than I can remember. He was probably the most consistent high-level forward in NHL history. Oh yeah, and once he took over as leader, the team became good.

What more do people want?

 

[BraveCanadian]

I cannot believe that Leafs' fans would actually say that they "never warmed to Sundin", or whatever. WTH? The guy was the franchise's best player and leader for more years than I can remember. He was probably the most consistent high-level forward in NHL history. Oh yeah, and once he took over as leader, the team became good.

What more do people want?

To play a little more like he was 6'5"? Sundin was a very good and very consistent player but he didn't ignite the team around him like a Gilmour or Clark.

A lot of people noticed how Sundin played internationally and wished he would play like that for the Leafs.

 

[FerrisRox]

Yikes....wow....this stuff is blowing me away....and is this still Cliff Fletcher as the GM at this point too?

Yes, this was Fletcher's deal.

 

[FerrisRox]

To play a little more like he was 6'5"? Sundin was a very good and very consistent player but he didn't ignite the team around him like a Gilmour or Clark.

A lot of people noticed how Sundin played internationally and wished he would play like that for the Leafs.

Did those people also notice that internationally he was surrounded with good players and with Toronto he had Lonny Bohonos and a defense made out of wet paper towel?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Yikes....wow....this stuff is blowing me away....and is this still Cliff Fletcher as the GM at this point too?

well fletcher was the GM yes. but this is exhibit A that even a genius GM (which fletcher certainly was) isn't going to save you if you're going to let the fanbase make a trade.

 

[Lukin1978]

I'm a long time Nordiques / Avalanche fan I remember hating this trade at the time.

 

[seventieslord]

Did those people also notice that internationally he was surrounded with good players and with Toronto he had Lonny Bohonos and a defense made out of wet paper towel?

Good thing they traded Jason Smith at the deadline for picks, though. NOT the kind of guy you want going into the playoffs, amirite??

 

[FerrisRox]

Good thing they traded Jason Smith at the deadline for picks, though. NOT the kind of guy you want going into the playoffs, amirite??

...and waived Steve Sullivan for nothing.

 

[seventieslord]

...and waived Steve Sullivan for nothing.

It's too bad, because the trio of useful players they got in the Gilmour deal was pretty unique in that they were immediately useful, yet also young. Could have been a great kickstart to a team that needed it. But they bought high on Khristich and sold low on Sullivan.

.... But I really, just don't get it. What playoff team trades JASON SMITH for picks at the deadline?? It's not like the team wag loaded with veteran grit. Berard, Karpovtsev, Cote and a 20 year old Kaberle played the entire playoffs.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

...and waived Steve Sullivan for nothing.

It's too bad, because the trio of useful players they got in the Gilmour deal was pretty unique in that they were immediately useful, yet also young. Could have been a great kickstart to a team that needed it. But they bought high on Khristich and sold low on Sullivan.

.... But I really, just don't get it. What playoff team trades JASON SMITH for picks at the deadline?? It's not like the team wag loaded with veteran grit. Berard, Karpovtsev, Cote and a 20 year old Kaberle played the entire playoffs.

cliff fletcher was a great GM. that gilmour/ellett for smith/sullivan/mccauley trade was one of his last before retiring.

in answer to the 70slord's rhetorical question, the person who succeeded fletcher as leafs GM, noted smart guy ken dryden, trades away jason smith at the deadline. another of dryden's trades: mathieu schneider for alex karpovtsev. potsy would play another 316 games, picking up 91 points. schneider would play until 2010, a quality player for the next decade. pat quinn would clean up that mess by stealing bryan mccabe when he sent potsy to chicago.

 

[seventieslord]

cliff fletcher was a great GM. that gilmour/ellett for smith/sullivan/mccauley trade was one of his last before retiring.

in answer to the 70slord's rhetorical question, the person who succeeded fletcher as leafs GM, noted smart guy ken dryden, trades away jason smith at the deadline. another of dryden's trades: mathieu schneider for alex karpovtsev. potsy would play another 316 games, picking up 91 points. schneider would play until 2010, a quality player for the next decade. pat quinn would clean up that mess by stealing bryan mccabe when he sent potsy to chicago.

Fine, bad GMing, I get it, can't win em all, and everything like that. But why is a trade like this even on the table, how does it even come close to happening? Why, in a non-salary cap world, does a team that's comfortably in a playoff spot, decide to dump their number 4-5 defenseman who's young, tough and built for playoff battles, and not get anyone back in return? This has to be unprecedented. Even if he didn't figure in their plans, what's wrong with a wealthy team like the Leafs keeping him on hand as a number 7 so they don't have to risk putting Chris McAllister on the ice?