Post-Game Talk: Welcome to Edmonton, Macklin Celebrini!

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,984
31,924
Calgary
Take it instead of the NFL where footballs are deflated, games are fixed and countless X player and officials STATE the game is fixed and that outcomes are fixed. Or NBA where two players can make or break any "team". NBA Basketball is hardly even a team sport. A handful of starters playing every game, almost all the time.
I mean it's hard to talk down a league where the best players actually win. Not like here. It's whatever team gets the most calls or bounces. Or whatever team Gary is currently courting.

Hockey's saving grace is the playoffs but even then after the first round the playoffs last year were trash.
 

McTonyBrar

Registered User
Apr 2, 2018
18,499
19,343
Simply being himself, lmao.
I'd much rather listen to Rishaug's podcasts than having to hear Gregor's voice.
I made that change as well.

I miss Devin Shore.

I can't wait to listen to Stauffer tonight defend the clown show from last night
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,845
58,449
Canuck hunting
the league doesn't do this amazing sport justice. Hockey can be miles ahead of where its at right now but it will never reach there do to a large number of factors
A better post. But I dislike the NBA posturing and pandering. I prefer College ball if I'm gonna watch. Basketball is inherently flawed sport and also not fun on the knees to play. heh.

I don't get into the NBA or NFL glitz and gimmicks. For sure I wouldn't buy the tickets.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
I mean it's hard to talk down a league where the best players actually win. Not like here. It's whatever team gets the most calls or bounces. Or whatever team Gary is currently courting.

Hockey's saving grace is the playoffs but even then after the first round the playoffs last year were trash.

That's true. Hockey is much more based on luck/random bounces and whatever agenda a referee has going.

In basketball, the best player's control the game ... which is really how it should be. If McDavid/Drai were basketball players (equivalent) and on the same team, they'd probably have 1-3 championships already.

But in hockey like Stuart Skinner can determine whether you win or not, lol. It would be like Michael Jordan getting cock blocked from a championship by Will Purdue or something, lulz.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
17,760
8,688
780
The NBA is refreshing? nah, hard pass. Lets watch a sport where certain players can travel half way down the court and its not called. A league not worth the time. Don't you just buy winning teams in the NBA?
The last NBA team to win a championship didn't buy a winning team. The Nuggets actually built their team the right way and won the right way. Something the Golden Knights could learn from
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,845
58,449
Canuck hunting
I mean it's hard to talk down a league where the best players actually win. Not like here. It's whatever team gets the most calls or bounces. Or whatever team Gary is currently courting.

Hockey's saving grace is the playoffs but even then after the first round the playoffs last year were trash.
In hockey the best TEAMS win. Not too hard to follow. The best players can be individuals, or they can further great teams. Hockey is much more of a team sport than basketball is. In basketball if you have two great players they own the court.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,984
31,924
Calgary
That's true. Hockey is much more based on luck/random bounces and whatever agenda a referee has going.

In basketball, the best player's control the game ... which is really how it should be.
I don't think that the NHL is rigged but I certainly think it is controlled to a certain degree. And certain teams do get favour over others.

And while I don't think Gary rigged the last draft lottery, I would be completely unshocked if he actually did.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,984
31,924
Calgary
In hockey the best TEAMS win. Not too hard to follow. The best players can be individuals, or they can further great teams. Hockey is much more of a team sport than basketball is. In basketball if you have two great players they own the court.
I don't know if I'd call Vegas the best team in the league last year. It's more of a case of "All the other actual good teams got knocked out and they faced a few patsies". Kinda like what happened with the Blues when they won the Cup. You get hot and/or lucky at the right time and that's all you need.

Hockey is the sport where outside forces (whether directly or indirectly) can decide a team's fate. A bad call or bounce here or there can completely undo an entire season.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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Canuck hunting
Appreciate the comment but I am not sure why you think the Cult of Hockey definition of a HDSC is strange. Have you listened to their definition of a HDSC?
Nah, just still remembering their faulty "errors" stat and counting faceoff losses as errors. That kind of thing. Haven't followed as much since. In anycase HDSC are hard to quantify in hockey. I don't know that hockey really gets defined in that way. At best you get approximations but they can be quite off depending on a teams schemes or approaches or even how individual players play and get results.

For instance how would Wayne Gretzky office passes get quantified in todays HDSC counting? Any pass that nearly missed, but that was otherwise a goal wouldn't even be counted. Drai onetime setups not even counted because out of range.

Hockey is the hardest team sport to quantify with any analytic or metric.
 

TheOne

Registered User
Jun 15, 2023
206
307
Once the defense starts making a few mistakes, they just mentally crater.

Maybe a year ago they would muster up energy to fight back but I think it's just too many times of the same shit and it's broken the mentality of the team.

How many times can you score a goal and then immediately watch the other team get it right back like 30-90 seconds later on an unforced mistake before it just deflates you.



Meanwhile Phil Kessel and Nick Ritchie are just sitting there unsigned. And look I'm not saying these players don't have flaws either, but compared to Adam freaking Erne and an injured Sam Gagner?

C'mon Oilers.
Teams with Phil Kessel on their roster win cups. Just saying. Might be worth a waive/trade for a league minimum signing...
 
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Tarus

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
9,441
4,564
Edmonton
Stauffer's recent tweet:


I personally don't care about the 'positives' at this stage
It's been years of "we lost, but the oiler positives though'
Not acceptable anymore.

Imagine that, Stauffer is all excited about some face punching.

It's be more effective if instead of standing up for his teammates, he was standing up to his teammates. RNH/Bouchard don't float around in the 3rd period without a care in the world on the defensive side of the puck if Kane came over after yet another blown play and roughed them up a bit in front of the entire arena :sarcasm:
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,845
58,449
Canuck hunting
The last NBA team to win a championship didn't buy a winning team. The Nuggets actually built their team the right way and won the right way. Something the Golden Knights could learn from
Maybe the NBA rigged them winning as gimmick, because its clearly the exception rather than the rule. In anycase I shouldn't reply because if you guys want to talk NBA please bring it to another thread. Don't want to see it in hockey threads.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
33,506
13,363
Nah, just still remembering their faulty "errors" stat and counting faceoff losses as errors. That kind of thing. Haven't followed as much since. In anycase HDSC are hard to quantify in hockey. I don't know that hockey really gets defined in that way. At best you get approximations but they can be quite off depending on a teams schemes or approaches or even how individual players play and get results.

For instance how would Wayne Gretzky office passes get quantified in todays HDSC counting? Any pass that nearly missed, but that was otherwise a goal wouldn't even be counted. Drai onetime setups not even counted because out of range.

Hockey is the hardest team sport to quantify with any analytic or metric.
Well..I would recommend to you that before you comment on something it might be a good idea to actually know what it is that you are commenting on.

Their HDSC criteria is actually pretty good.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,984
31,924
Calgary
Maybe the NBA rigged them winning as gimmick, because its clearly the exception rather than the rule. In anycase I shouldn't reply because if you guys want to talk NBA please bring it to another thread. Don't want to see it in hockey threads.
You want to talk about rigging... Tim Peel blew the cover off how games are managed. Of course the NHL was all too happy to sweep it under the rug.
 

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,411
7,824
I made that change as well.

I miss Devin Shore.

I can't wait to listen to Stauffer tonight defend the clown show from last night

So far he said Kane was good because something something Geordie Howe hattrick

He’s definitely reaching lol
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,845
58,449
Canuck hunting
I don't know if I'd call Vegas the best team in the league last year. It's more of a case of "All the other actual good teams got knocked out and they faced a few patsies". Kinda like what happened with the Blues when they won the Cup. You get hot and/or lucky at the right time and that's all you need.

Hockey is the sport where outside forces (whether directly or indirectly) can decide a team's fate. A bad call or bounce here or there can completely undo an entire season.
Best of the remaining teams. But thats also testament to how tough and how glorious the SC playoffs are. The hardest test in sports. So hard that its difficult for teams to repeat due to the long haul of attrition it is getting one.

So hard that vast vast majority of players never get even close to one Stanley Cup.
 

TheOne

Registered User
Jun 15, 2023
206
307
I don't know if I'd call Vegas the best team in the league last year. It's more of a case of "All the other actual good teams got knocked out and they faced a few patsies". Kinda like what happened with the Blues when they won the Cup. You get hot and/or lucky at the right time and that's all you need.

Hockey is the sport where outside forces (whether directly or indirectly) can decide a team's fate. A bad call or bounce here or there can completely undo an entire season.
If VGK had a good season or two, sure, that logic holds up and you can write them off as an anomoly. VGK has been a PO force to be reckoned with for years outside of one since their inception. I think that commands attention and respect, not a dismissal as being "lucky". They absolutely have the x-factor in the post-season.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
13,910
13,518
Scratch Bouchard and play Broberg more. Or make Bouchard the 6th-7th Dman and put Broberg with Ekholm

For at least the immediate future I think Bouchard needs to be handled in the following way:

- O-zone faceoffs only
- Powerplay time
- Effectively the 6th/7th option 5v5
- No difficult matchups

He's now at the point where he's single handedly gassing games, no responsible coach can pretend this just isn't happening and keep doing it. I don't perceive any possible way that Broberg or Desharnais produce worse results than Bouchard 5v5 at the moment. There is literally no risk to scaling him back, putting him solely in positions to excel at what he's good at, and then building him up from there. Defensively he is at rock bottom, the worst he's played in his career.

But we all know that coach kumbaya will be too scared to manage him because that might be perceived as mean, or god forbid "old school," so I'm sure we'll get to just keep watching him implode to the point where he's either run out of town or confidence completely broken. Because that's just what we do in Edmonton.
 

Old Boys Club

Anita Max Wynn
Nov 3, 2013
6,205
5,481
This team is entirely a rush and pp team. At 5v5 they cannot generate offense in zone. The dmen, whether on instruction or just by their own ability, do not or cannot funnel pucks on net. The play is to 'cycle' down low for 30 seconds then fling a weak floater on net. Tired of watching this crap. Every other team can generate chances from in zone play, point men, and traffic, but the Oilers look hopeless in that regard.

This ties in to my second thought, which is that the Oilers cannot ever win 50/50 battles. If there were an official puck battles stat tracked, I'm sure the Oilers would be last in the league by a large margin. I tuned into the Minny broadcast last night for a bit, their unofficial tracking had the puck battles won percentage with the Wild at ~80% and the Oilers at ~20%. Players are just not skilled enough or do not put in enough effort to win the tossup decisions in the game. It's infuriating to watch the Oilers half ass clearing attempts or give up on puck battles when opponents never do the same.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,984
31,924
Calgary
Theres been many NFL Tim peels. The NHL is a virtuous virgin in comparison.
That's only because we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes.

Best of the remaining teams. But thats also testament to how tough and how glorious the SC playoffs are. The hardest test in sports. So hard that its difficult for teams to repeat due to the long haul of attrition it is getting one.

So hard that vast vast majority of players never get even close to one Stanley Cup.
They kinda are but like... Vegas faced an apathetic Jets team, an arrogant Oilers team, an overmatched Stars team and then the Panthers... They get credit for winning but that's not really an impressive lineup of opponents.

If VGK had a good season or two, sure, that logic holds up and you can write them off as an anomoly. VGK has been a PO force to be reckoned with for years outside of one since their inception. I think that commands attention and respect, not a dismissal as being "lucky". They absolutely have the x-factor in the post-season.
They didn't even make the playoffs the previous year. They've been a good team since inception but virtually nobody expected them to actually win the Cup.

One thing I will give Vegas credit for is their cutthroat approach. You suck, you're gone. No bloated contracts for career years. No prospect or pick is untouchable. They wanted to win and they did. But again, not exactly a gauntlet they had to go through.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,845
58,449
Canuck hunting
Well..I would recommend to you that before you comment on something it might be a good idea to actually know what it is that you are commenting on.

Their HDSC criteria is actually pretty good.
HDSC is hard to define in the complex sport of hockey. Regardless of criteria used. I don't need to look at a specific metric to know that hockey is hard to quantify in numbers. Maybe the Cult metric is the best of tools to quantify that which can't be quantified numerically.

That's only because we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes.


They kinda are but like... Vegas faced an apathetic Jets team, an arrogant Oilers team, an overmatched Stars team and then the Panthers... They get credit for winning but that's not really an impressive lineup of opponents.


They didn't even make the playoffs the previous year. They've been a good team since inception but virtually nobody expected them to actually win the Cup.

One thing I will give Vegas credit for is their cutthroat approach. You suck, you're gone. No bloated contracts for career years. No prospect or pick is untouchable. They wanted to win and they did. But again, not exactly a gauntlet they had to go through.
Their owner expected the cup within 6yrs on onset and the expectation was warranted. A lot of teams have hiccups prior to their wins but those teams have usually been a good team for awhile and the Knights always have been.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
26,982
46,970
I know it wasn't directed at me but I don't stay quiet about Oilers anything. I just use this space as a avenue for anger and issues I have with this team so I can see how it would just seem like I'm an Oilers hater

when they win, I'm just not on HF I celebrate, I do that away from a computer screen


medusa-toxic.gif
 
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