Pre-Game Talk: Week to Trade Every Player (@TOR, @PIT, @WAS)

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henchman21

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I'm not completely familiar with that stat but if it's just a percentage, than the higher shot totals are going to lower the percentage.

I think just a straight number of high quality chances against would be more accurate. I'd be curious to see how they rank there.

If you are to believe war-on-ice's numbers the Avs sit 21st on the season as a percentage (avs HDSC vs total HDSC). If you move that date to the Oct 21st (where I think things started clicking again) the Avs sit 10th in the league since then.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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What the hell is so ridiculous about wanting your goalie to make a big save? Of course the PK was awful, but if your goalie can't make a big save to bail them out, then you have no chance at all.

I never said he was bad. Far from it. But if you ask Berra himself, I'm sure he'd say he didn't make a big save when the team needed him. I'm sure he'd point to that shorthanded goal as one he needs to stop, and that might have changed the game, just like the Montreal game would have been different if Berra hadn't played as well as he did in the 1st.

He made some pretty big saves. Not sure the situation though. Obviously if they were made on the PK it didn't really change anything since they ended up scoring anyways. But he did have some really good saves.
 

FALAPARK17

Colorado Avalanche
Jul 10, 2015
171
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Winnipeg
Its hyperbole like this that makes having a conversation impossible. Every loss is terrible, no effort, everyone was outplayed, outcoached, nobody gave a damn, on and on. Doesn't matter that this was a game they both outshot the opposition and won possession. They did nothing right and everyone should be fired, traded. Might as well disband the franchise too. Nobody goes to the games except for fans of the other team, why even bother having a team in Colorado?

I'll admit, it'd be a stupid idea for Roy to blame himself for any loss considering he's supposed to be the leader of the group, and that these games happen, and that they don't have a good enough depth to play differently. But what I want to see from this group is to talk to each other more. If they did that, they wouldn't have been walked all over as they have.
And I'm one of the few here that doesn't care about the possession game or generating shots. What I care about is cutting down on high scoring chances and generating high scoring chances.
Also, I wouldn't move anyone here, except for Barrie + picks for OEL but that isn't gonna happen. And everything else like Dutchy for Kevin Fiala + S. Jones would be too risky to do.
And also when I meant group, I was referring to the coaching staff and the players. You can tell Roy was pissed at the players otherwise he wouldn't have put his guns all in one line.
 
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forsbergavs32

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Jan 21, 2011
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I don't think the team as a whole played a bad game, it was just a few huge mistakes and dumb penalties that cost them.

Regarding the Berra thing...I did listen to the interview this morning and I still stand by what I said, there was no need to even bring up that it wasn't Berra's best game, the only goal he maybe should have had back was the shortie but the majority of the issues were with the PK and it's positioning. Berra also did come up with some big saves to keep the score down too. I know Roy mentioned the special teams being bad, but he still tends to focus on the goalie needing to make a huge save instead of looking at ways to fix the system so the defense isn't getting out of position so often. 3 of the 4 goals a d-man was leaving someone wide open at the back door for a quick tap in
 

Foppa2118

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If you are to believe war-on-ice's numbers the Avs sit 21st on the season as a percentage (avs HDSC vs total HDSC). If you move that date to the Oct 21st (where I think things started clicking again) the Avs sit 10th in the league since then.

So it's measured as a percentage against the league total of HDSC? That sounds more accurate than what I thought, as a percentage of the Avs shots that were high danger.

As you say though, we'd have to assume the data was close to accurate.

Certainly does show an improvement in play, which is helpful for those that weren't able to see it.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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Trade rumours are dying down. I'm so proud of you guys for trolling hard! See you in a few weeks!

Job well done NEB, you fought the good fight in the trade forum.

I mentioned it last night, but obviously Comeau is going to be a very high maintenance player for Roy. If you play THAT inconsistent with your effort you should be healthy scratched. He is a veteran player. If we had another forward I would healthy scratch him against the Pens without hesitation. He needs to compete to be useful.

Comeau is incredibly frustrating, he's been that way his whole career. He doesn't know how to control himself during a game in terms of taking a penalty with a stupid play, he's just going to make that stupid play all the time. We have to live with this, it's been Comeau's flaw for his entire career. He disappears for large stretches, and he takes idiotic penalties. I'd absolutely scratch him if Mitchell was healthy enough to go vs Pittsburgh, but Roy won't. I don't think he'd do that to a newly signed UFA vet when he has other options (Everberg, Martinsen, Street, Wagner) to scratch.

I do however think Comeau will have a good game vs Pittsburgh because it's his old club. Just seems like the kind of guy who will play well vs old teams.

It is always interesting to me how the haters come out of the woodwork after a loss that ends a winning streak. There have been plenty of games to complain about Roy and his system, but last night wasn't one of them. The Avs didn't play a bad game at all 5v5... the special teams just sucked and Berra didn't make the big saves. This team is trending up and playing much better (and more relaxed) hockey compared to early in the season.

People can say what they want and will about Roy's systems, but by every measure this team is looking better as the season goes on. No team can win every game and continue on long winning streaks. It is about playing consistently good hockey. There will be the occasional dumper of a game, it is more about how they respond from there. How this team plays against Pitt is going to say more than this loss to Toronto. After a mini winning streak and this team finally playing better, they were due for mental lapse... and they had it.

Yep, to coin a term used here far too often in Edmonton, the team looks "visually better." Now, the results were coming with that, too, up until this last game but no doubt about it in my mind the month of November has been much, much better hockey than the month of October was. If they can continue the trend of playing better hockey month by month, I'll be very happy. Even if we don't make the playoffs in the asinine Central Division, an improvement in play would be so encouraging knowing that, if they can play better hockey with our great prospects not yet here (Rantanen, Zadorov, Bigras, Bleackley, Compher, etc), I can't wait to see what they'd do when those players do in fact arrive.
 

Cousin Eddie

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Nov 3, 2006
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I don't think the team as a whole played a bad game, it was just a few huge mistakes and dumb penalties that cost them.

Regarding the Berra thing...I did listen to the interview this morning and I still stand by what I said, there was no need to even bring up that it wasn't Berra's best game, the only goal he maybe should have had back was the shortie but the majority of the issues were with the PK and it's positioning. Berra also did come up with some big saves to keep the score down too. I know Roy mentioned the special teams being bad, but he still tends to focus on the goalie needing to make a huge save instead of looking at ways to fix the system so the defense isn't getting out of position so often. 3 of the 4 goals a d-man was leaving someone wide open at the back door for a quick tap in

It isn't like Roy singled Berra out of the crowd and said he needs to be better. The hosts asked him if it was an off night for Berra or if it was the team as a whole and Roy said it was a mix of both. He then went on to explain both sides. I thought he handled it well. Saying Roy shouldn't bring it up isn't fair since it wasn't him who brought it up. If Roy isn't going to answer the questions asked to him he shouldn't even be on the radio.
 

henchman21

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So it's measured as a percentage against the league total of HDSC? That sounds more accurate than what I thought, as a percentage of the Avs shots that were high danger.

As you say though, we'd have to assume the data was close to accurate.

Certainly does show an improvement in play, which is helpful for those that weren't able to see it.

It is taking total high danger scoring chances in the game as a total and comparing that with how many the Avs have.

So if there are 10 high danger 5v5 chances total in a game and the Avs got 6 of them.... 60% for the Avs.

Each site seems to vary a bit on what danger chances are counted, but it gives a reasonable estimation... which aligns with the eye test. Some stinkers have happened in the Oct 21st til now time frame, but the play has been mostly good.

Interesting that Avs sit 26th in corsi over the same period 5v5, 19th in Fenwick.

Yep, to coin a term used here far too often in Edmonton, the team looks "visually better." Now, the results were coming with that, too, up until this last game but no doubt about it in my mind the month of November has been much, much better hockey than the month of October was. If they can continue the trend of playing better hockey month by month, I'll be very happy. Even if we don't make the playoffs in the asinine Central Division, an improvement in play would be so encouraging knowing that, if they can play better hockey with our great prospects not yet here (Rantanen, Zadorov, Bigras, Bleackley, Compher, etc), I can't wait to see what they'd do when those players do in fact arrive.

Yep. The team is playing a lot better and I think a lot of that is the team not pressing so much for a 'great' start. This team is mentally very weak and they need some good play and confidence to get going. Once they started to play better, the results started to follow.
 

Avs_19

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Jun 28, 2007
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So Grigorenko is off the top line just like that, eh? It's Landeskog who is taking that spot so I get it. However, it sounds like Comeau's inconsistent and mostly useless ass is staying on the second line, which is very unfortunate. Hopefully Grigorenko still gets PP time and doesn't have his minutes cut to the point where he's playing 7 mins/gm again.
 

AvalancheFan19

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May 3, 2009
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So Grigorenko is off the top line just like that, eh? It's Landeskog who is taking that spot so I get it. However, it sounds like Comeau's inconsistent and mostly useless ass is staying on the second line, which is very unfortunate. Hopefully Grigorenko still gets PP time and doesn't have his minutes cut to the point where he's playing 7 mins/gm again.

Grigorenko-Mackinnon-Iginla/Duchene
Landeskog-Sodaberg-Duchene/Iginla

Is what I would run with for a top 6.
 

dahrougem2

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Dec 9, 2011
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If Grigorenko is taken off the top line so that he can play 3C for the time being, I understand it. Roy needs a centre in the worst way so long as Mitchell is hurt, and neither Street nor Wagner can cut it playing a lot on the 3rd line. So in that sense, it's ok.

However, once Mitchell is back and healthy, I would hope Grigorenko goes back to the 1st line LW spot, Landeskog drops down to the 2nd line LW spot, and Comeau drops down to the 3rd line where he truly belongs on this team.
 

The Kingslayer

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Aug 26, 2004
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So Grigorenko is off the top line just like that, eh? It's Landeskog who is taking that spot so I get it. However, it sounds like Comeau's inconsistent and mostly useless ass is staying on the second line, which is very unfortunate. Hopefully Grigorenko still gets PP time and doesn't have his minutes cut to the point where he's playing 7 mins/gm again.

I rather Roy put Landeskog with Soda and Iginla and move Comeau to the third line where he belongs. I thought Grigs did alot of good unnoticed things last night where Comeau took 2 dumb penalties and did nothing to help the PK when he was on there. No idea what Comeau does to earn top 6 minutes :shakehead
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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Job well done NEB, you fought the good fight in the trade forum.



Comeau is incredibly frustrating, he's been that way his whole career. He doesn't know how to control himself during a game in terms of taking a penalty with a stupid play, he's just going to make that stupid play all the time. We have to live with this, it's been Comeau's flaw for his entire career. He disappears for large stretches, and he takes idiotic penalties. I'd absolutely scratch him if Mitchell was healthy enough to go vs Pittsburgh, but Roy won't. I don't think he'd do that to a newly signed UFA vet when he has other options (Everberg, Martinsen, Street, Wagner) to scratch.

I do however think Comeau will have a good game vs Pittsburgh because it's his old club. Just seems like the kind of guy who will play well vs old teams.



Yep, to coin a term used here far too often in Edmonton, the team looks "visually better." Now, the results were coming with that, too, up until this last game but no doubt about it in my mind the month of November has been much, much better hockey than the month of October was. If they can continue the trend of playing better hockey month by month, I'll be very happy. Even if we don't make the playoffs in the asinine Central Division, an improvement in play would be so encouraging knowing that, if they can play better hockey with our great prospects not yet here (Rantanen, Zadorov, Bigras, Bleackley, Compher, etc), I can't wait to see what they'd do when those players do in fact arrive.

Obviously it's still early, but Comeau needs to step it up. Not only is he making those mistakes and his effort level is inconsistent, but he is on pace for just 23 points. That 2.4mil could be better spent if this is what we should expect from him. And we will probably need to let a bottom 6 winger go for next year.
 

Avs_19

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Jun 28, 2007
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In terms of importance for this team #3C > #2LW

Well, we did just have three centers on the top line so how important is it? :laugh:

Grigorenko is a better option than Wagner and Street but he's not as good when he's not with other talented players. So we'll have an upgrade on that third line but I think it'll still mostly be an ineffective line.
 

henchman21

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Well, we did just have three centers on the top line so how important is it? :laugh:

Grigorenko is a better option than Wagner and Street but he's not as good when he's not with other talented players. So we'll have an upgrade on that third line but I think it'll still mostly be an ineffective line.

Well... during the brief winning streak, two of the wins came with Mitchell at center and the other was against the Flyers (big part of that win was it was against them) were Grigs started off at Center. The Toronto loss came without one of the two playing at center.

If Mitchell plays, I want Comeau pushed down, but if Mitchell can't play, I'd agree with Grigs at the #3C spot.
 

Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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Landeskog - Mackinnon - Grigorenko
Comeau - Duchene - Iginla
Mitchell - Soderberg - Skille
McLeod - Wagner - Martinsen

Ouch...poor Soderberg, he certainly doesn't deserve that. In the same token, Comeau certainly doesn't deserve a 2nd line spot either.
 

henchman21

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Duchene and MacK are working too well together and Soderberg has been pretty good on the 2nd line... I don't think those should be messed with.
 

ArWKo

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Jul 2, 2009
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CO
Greg-MacK-Duchene
Landy-Soderberg-Iggy
Comeau-Mitchell-Skille
McCleod-Wagner-Martinsen

Would like to see this lineup.
 

ASmileyFace

Landeskog Replacement
Feb 13, 2014
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If Mitchell has lingering issues this year our bottom 6 is going to look bad. We really need him to be healthy.
 
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