Pre-Game Talk: Week of postponement and the blues.... and the B-Lose×2... maybe?

[Northern Avs Fan]

Graves was never great with the puck. His best attributes are defensive. His long stick, his size, his skating ability, his shot blocking willingness. He blocks the goalie because he’s big and his body deflects or affects a ton of shots. I like Graves for his defense. He is a defender after all. Bednar plays him around 20 minutes a game so coach sees the same things I notice and the haters are too busy hissy fitting over puck moving, which isn’t the core need of a defender.

The Avs have two elite puck movers on the back end. Two more very good ones in Byram and Toews. We’re a fan base that has a skewed idea of what a defender can do. We’re covered twice over with puck moving Dmen. We’re way short on big bodies that can actually skate (Graves).

try watching a non Avs game. Watch the next Kings vs Yotes game and you’ll see most defenders are more like Cole, EJ and Graves than Makar and Girard.

EJ must have made 250 hospital passes to Sam last year. But he’s good in his own end. Graves is similar. But a hell of a lot more durable than China doll EJ.

EJ really left the Avs in a tough spot with his inability to stay healthy. He’s very likely washed up and done at this point. What a massive waste of cap space for an elite team. Avs are lucky Graves has been able to fill that void because as much as I love Makar and Girard, they don’t do the physical part of a defenders job. And you can’t skate your way out of every defensive responsibility. Sometimes you gotta just cross check the bastard in front of the net until his kidneys hurt too much to stand there. Graves doing that a lot more this year.

I’m just not as enamoured with Graves defensive game as you are.

In terms of physicality, he is one of the weaker 6’5 defenceman in the league and the way he thinks the game on the defensive side leaves a lot to be desired these days.

I get what you’re saying about having different skill-sets on the defence-core, but Graves is just not that reliable.

Most defenders are more like Cole, EJ, and Graves because talents like Makar and Girard are extremely rare.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Making more money doesn't mean that a person is suddenly immune from feeling emotions. If your employer lied straight to your face you'd be pretty upset about it too I'd imagine.

It’s a little hard to feel sorry for the guy while there are a lot of other people in the world dealing with much more difficult situations during the pandemic.

People who have suffered real loss. It was an incentive/hyperbolic comment given what’s happening on a global scale.

Of course he can feel how he wants and hopefully they lighten the restrictions for road games. I just think he could’ve chosen better words.

 

[McJedi]

I’m just not as enamoured with Graves defensive game as you are.

In terms of physicality, he is one of the weaker 6’5 defenceman in the league and the way he thinks the game on the defensive side leaves a lot to be desired these days.

I get what you’re saying about having different skill-sets on the defence-core, but Graves is just not that reliable.

Most defenders are more like Cole, EJ, and Graves because talents like Makar and Girard are extremely rare.

Exactly right about our elite defenders. But Graves, check his metrics. They are quite good in terms of PK work. XGF vs XGA. Corsi is solid at 57% for a guy getting 53% D zone draws. His plus minus is back up to 12 after being fairly negative early in the season when he wasn’t as defensively engaged and he was trying to get to 10 goals again like he got last year. Dude is a plus 56 in 137 NHL games. That’s not bad. That’s not a stat for a guy that is garbage. Based on his xGF, bad things don’t happen when he’s on the ice nearly as much as good things happen for his team. That isn’t pure luck and coincidence.

We have a few fans at this site that don’t know much about hockey but they yell loudly to prove their ignorance and imbalance. They hate Graves and drive an invalid and uneducated narrative. Jost got this too and JTC is probably the new flavor of the month.

I’m not buying that BS they spout. I believe in math and i believe in ice time. Graves is good value for his role at $3.16mm. Much better than a lesser player like Cole or a washed up one like EJ.

He’s fighting more. Playing with more edge and a little dirty at times. We need that. He wasn’t doing it a year ago but seems more confident each month in the role the Avs need him for that Cole couldn’t fill because he sucks and EJ won’t because he’s made of glass.

we’re lucky to have Graves. He’ll be a Seattle player next year amd we’ll need to replace him. Or else, you’ll see a regression in the Pk as well as in our xGF. Hopefully we can get rid of EJ and use free agency to get a big body defender to consume 21 hard minutes a night. There are better ones out there than Graves. Just not on our roster or in our pipeline. It’s a huge going forward need for the franchise once Seattle takes Graves. Way bigger need than 3C or backup G.

 

[McJedi]

I’m just not as enamoured with Graves defensive game as you are.

In terms of physicality, he is one of the weaker 6’5 defenceman in the league and the way he thinks the game on the defensive side leaves a lot to be desired these days.

I get what you’re saying about having different skill-sets on the defence-core, but Graves is just not that reliable.

Most defenders are more like Cole, EJ, and Graves because talents like Makar and Girard are extremely rare.

And this Nemeth guy. Yikes. Dude has zero takeaways this season. Zero. That’s nearly impossible to not create at least one in half a season of hockey. That’s a pathetic stat.

He’s not much of a shot blocker either for a team that faces a lot of shots. He’s a better hitter than Graves but his possession stats suck. Both he and Graves are much better point shares defensively than offensively where both guys are pretty bad. Graves has better point shares defensively and far better xGA.

we’ll see how Nemeth does. But so far, he’s played bad hockey for a bad team. This idea he’s an upgrade on Graves is supported by no stats or logic. Just angst and hot air.

let’s also not forget Nemeth was a healthy scratch for the Avs several times in his last playoff run for us. Even back then he couldn’t crack the playoff lineup. And he’s regressed since as a Red Wing.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Exactly right about our elite defenders. But Graves, check his metrics. They are quite good in terms of PK work. XGF vs XGA. Corsi is solid at 57% for a guy getting 53% D zone draws. His plus minus is back up to 12 after being fairly negative early in the season when he wasn’t as defensively engaged and he was trying to get to 10 goals again like he got last year. Dude is a plus 56 in 137 NHL games. That’s not bad. That’s not a stat for a guy that is garbage. Based on his xGF, bad things don’t happen when he’s on the ice nearly as much as good things happen for his team. That isn’t pure luck and coincidence.

We have a few fans at this site that don’t know much about hockey but they yell loudly to prove their ignorance and imbalance. They hate Graves and drive an invalid and uneducated narrative. Jost got this too and JTC is probably the new flavor of the month.

I’m not buying that BS they spout. I believe in math and i believe in ice time. Graves is good value for his role at $3.16mm. Much better than a lesser player like Cole or a washed up one like EJ.

He’s fighting more. Playing with more edge and a little dirty at times. We need that. He wasn’t doing it a year ago but seems more confident each month in the role the Avs need him for that Cole couldn’t fill because he sucks and EJ won’t because he’s made of glass.

we’re lucky to have Graves. He’ll be a Seattle player next year amd we’ll need to replace him. Or else, you’ll see a regression in the Pk as well as in our xGF. Hopefully we can get rid of EJ and use free agency to get a big body defender to consume 21 hard minutes a night. There are better ones out there than Graves. Just not on our roster or in our pipeline. It’s a huge going forward need for the franchise once Seattle takes Graves. Way bigger need than 3C or backup G.

He’s a serviceable bottom pair defenceman. You can place as much value on that as you want.

His advanced stats are buoyed by the team he plays for because he’s not a play-driver.

His minutes shot up after the injuries on the Avs defence. Ideally I’m sure Bednar would like to play him less than he is right now.

 

[henchman21]

Yes, you're right about that. The Tuskegee experiments come to mind...

I know you're trying to go to the extreme to make a point, and the Tuskegee experiments were an absolute tragedy of human experimentation. That had nothing to do with a vaccine though.

I'm more speaking on polio and measles. Where it was experimental and ended up compulsory rather quickly.

 

[McJedi]

He’s a serviceable bottom pair defenceman. You can place as much value on that as you want.

His advanced stats are buoyed by the team he plays for because he’s not a play-driver.

His minutes shot up after the injuries on the Avs defence. Ideally I’m sure Bednar would like to play him less than he is right now.

I somewhat agree. He should be playing 17-18 minutes a night but was thrust into a larger role because higher paid players like Cole were worse, EJ being constantly hurt and also not very good and Zadorov being a marginal NHL player. Avs haven’t successfully added the defensive D man. They missed on Cole and Z. Graves is having to morph into the player those guys never became.

not an easy thing to do on the fly in a pandemic which stunts practice time. Graves will be in the NHL 8 years from now when guys like Cole, EJ and Z will be long gone.

probably because Graves can change his game whereas those players can’t or won’t.

Makar would carry anyone. EJ, Nemeth, Timmins, Graves, Toews. Anyone. He’s an elite player.

Graves is high end bottom pair IMO. A very good #5. Avs don’t have someone to replace him. Byram should steal some of his minutes. Nemeth. Dude should be a healthy scratch but he’ll have to do as the #6. Slide MacDonald back to number 7.

 

[Ararana]

What are the odds the mods lets us create a vaccine thread so I don't have to scroll though all this crap in our hockey threads?

 

[Richard88]

I know you're trying to go to the extreme to make a point, and the Tuskegee experiments were an absolute tragedy of human experimentation. That had nothing to do with a vaccine though.

I'm more speaking on polio and measles. Where it was experimental and ended up compulsory rather quickly.

Thanks for your reply. I Pm'd you a response to your post so as to derail this thread.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Coyotes 3-7-0 their last 10
Blues 3-6-1
Sharks 2-7-1
Kings 4-6-0

This "race" for 4th is ****ing hilarious

And here is the reason why we should all want to finish 1st in our division.
People that want us to finish 2nd because they prefer the Avs play Minny instead of the Blues should really think twice about this and look at these record again.
Win the division and secure home ice.

 

[Soedy]

And here is the reason why we should all want to finish 1st in our division.
People that want us to finish 2nd because they prefer the Avs play Minny instead of the Blues should really think twice about this and look at these record again.
Win the division and secure home ice.

Way more encouraging for me is that I could see the Wild beat Vegas in a series.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Yes, you're right about that. The Tuskegee experiments come to mind...

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Richard88]

The 2000/01 team would probably have a few more points if a few ties are converted into OTW's with shootouts, but that's still super impressive.

 

[Metallo]

Kadri with 3 assists in 14 games and contributing nothing else is simply unnaceptable.

Get your shit together man.

 

[MarkT]

And here is the reason why we should all want to finish 1st in our division.
People that want us to finish 2nd because they prefer the Avs play Minny instead of the Blues should really think twice about this and look at these record again.
Win the division and secure home ice.

If it keeps going like that I agree with you. But the odds are, one of those four teams is going to go on a hot streak to claim the #4 spot, and historically that's a bad matchup for a top seed. If I have a choice between playing a red hot [Coyotes/Blues/Kings/Sharks] and playing the Wild with their "center depth", I'll take the Wild all day.

I mean, we'd beat all five of those teams, but teams coming into the playoffs hot are unpredictable.

Kadri with 3 assists in 14 games and contributing nothing else is simply unnaceptable.

Get your shit together man.

Honestly, he was the worst player on the team in that last game in my opinion.

 

[AvsCOL]

Kadri with 3 assists in 14 games and contributing nothing else is simply unnaceptable.

Get your shit together man.

Kadri having a rough year tbh. Most inconsistent player on the Avs.

 

[Metallo]

I thought we were getting a pest with sandpaper, Kadri is the biggest floater on the team.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We have a few fans at this site that don’t know much about hockey but they yell loudly to prove their ignorance and imbalance. They hate Graves and drive an invalid and uneducated narrative. Jost got this too and JTC is probably the new flavor of the month.

Well, you're certainly right about that part.

 

[McJedi]

Well, you're certainly right about that part.

I’m know. I’m on the game threads as the gambling degenerates have their breakdowns.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

nice, we should get some guys back by may 10th

Annoyed because the friday game against LA that I was going to go to is now rescheduled to a f***ing Wednesday, which I cannot do.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[McMetal]

Annoyed because the friday game against LA that I was going to go to is now rescheduled to a f***ing Wednesday, which I cannot do.

You looking to get those tickets sold? I might be able to go.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Exactly right about our elite defenders. But Graves, check his metrics. They are quite good in terms of PK work. XGF vs XGA. Corsi is solid at 57% for a guy getting 53% D zone draws. His plus minus is back up to 12 after being fairly negative early in the season when he wasn’t as defensively engaged and he was trying to get to 10 goals again like he got last year. Dude is a plus 56 in 137 NHL games. That’s not bad. That’s not a stat for a guy that is garbage. Based on his xGF, bad things don’t happen when he’s on the ice nearly as much as good things happen for his team. That isn’t pure luck and coincidence.

We have a few fans at this site that don’t know much about hockey but they yell loudly to prove their ignorance and imbalance. They hate Graves and drive an invalid and uneducated narrative. Jost got this too and JTC is probably the new flavor of the month.

I’m not buying that BS they spout. I believe in math and i believe in ice time. Graves is good value for his role at $3.16mm. Much better than a lesser player like Cole or a washed up one like EJ.

He’s fighting more. Playing with more edge and a little dirty at times. We need that. He wasn’t doing it a year ago but seems more confident each month in the role the Avs need him for that Cole couldn’t fill because he sucks and EJ won’t because he’s made of glass.

we’re lucky to have Graves. He’ll be a Seattle player next year amd we’ll need to replace him. Or else, you’ll see a regression in the Pk as well as in our xGF. Hopefully we can get rid of EJ and use free agency to get a big body defender to consume 21 hard minutes a night. There are better ones out there than Graves. Just not on our roster or in our pipeline. It’s a huge going forward need for the franchise once Seattle takes Graves. Way bigger need than 3C or backup G.

Oleksiak if Dallas can't resign him.

 

[McJedi]

Oleksiak if Dallas can't resign him.

Dallas just decided not to trade him likely because they know they’re going to resign him. But he is what you and I have in mind.

I’d definitely lose a Saad to nab an Oleksiak.