Pre-Game Talk: Week 11: Ranta(nen) Claus is coming to town. (@chi, ott, ari)

[ASmileyFace]

Frail Cale will never win another Norris at this rate

 

[nightonthesun]

supports hypothesis that cale is a part time santa elf (see: rosy cheeks)

 

[missionAvs]

Yikes Frail Cale still out? We're done.

 

[Balthazar]

Georgiev' mask

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Georgiev' mask

That's fun!

 

[henchman21]

Georgiev' mask

The red nose is very on point with his play.

 

[The Kingslayer]

L, L, L, extra L for us watching

1 down 2 more to go

 

[henchman21]

So as things stand today:

Pros:

• The Avs have done a nice job gathering points against a soft schedule. There is a buffer for the stretch run.
• Despite the issues, Avs are within earshot of the top of the West.
• MacK and Nuke are playing very well. Yeah some moments haven't been great and Nuke took ~8 games to work off his summer, but both have been great.
• Makar even at less than 100% is still amazing.
• The Central looks incredibly weak.
• Colton-Wood-LOC as a line fit the system very well
• Olofsson as been all you can ask for out of a 4C
• Manson has been passable to positive to 15-20 games now. Still not worth his contract, but playing at a top 4 level.
• The callup guys have mostly been fine

Cons:

• The 2nd line is atrocious. Drouin has been better of late, but he's always been streaky too... this could simply be a hot streak
• Extending on the Ryjo is cooked. You might be able to get some use of him as a PP1 bumper guy, but he has been outright terrible. It would be very risky to think playoff RyJo still exists.
• Goaltending has been really bad. George has been a bottom 5-10 starter. Prosvetov has been very erratic. Some fantastic games followed by real stinkers. George... what's killing him is the soft goals. His high danger and harder saves have been fine. He has just been letting in a bad goal with regularity.
• Coaching... now before people jump on it, I get why Bednar is doing what he is... he's trying to win now. I think it is missing the longer-term view though. Overplaying top guys to struggle to get wins against bad teams may help today and get a few more points, but the long-term pain of that is just too great.
• Byram... he's been objectively bad this year and wasn't good last year too. We are now as a trend point where he is showing more of a replacement level middle pairing D rather than a high end guy. He has more talent than that, he needs to show it.
• Girard's issues... we don't know when he will be back, but as things stand now the team really misses his IQ and puck movement.
• IQ as a whole. The Avs are not an especially smart team... they rely on a lot of guys who have some absurd physical traits. But even the smart guys are making huge mistakes. Some of it is laziness and some of it is just flat out stupidity. It is clear as day when you take out two actually smart players in G and Makar just how bad this team is at making a decision exiting the zone. It is horrific to watch this team galaxy brain their way around the ice. None of the forwards lines are smart, they guy by on ability. The defensive pairings last night, also not smart. Toews can be better in this area and shown more, so he stands out like a sore thumb... but JMFJ, Manson, and especially Byram are brain cramping their way around the ice.

Now I don't think any of this is unsolvable, but the Avs really have their work cut out for them. Dumb hockey with bad goaltending is going to be a way to spring golf. If the schedule and central weren't so weak, the Avs might be in some legit trouble. As of right now they have buffer, but it is going to start getting tested.

 

[dahrougem2]

Avs are definitely in for a "fun" ride the rest of the season.

Only 9 of their 32 total games have been against teams currently in a playoff position. They're 5-4-0 in those games, with 3 of those 4 losses (@ Vegas, @ Los Angeles, @ Winnipeg) being absolute ass whoopings.

I maintain that this team just needs to get into the playoffs healthy and not destroying their top guys with too many minutes but Bednar says "f*** no" to that so I guess we'll keep seeing 29/13/96/7/8 playing 25+ minutes each night.

One has to think CMac sees this team ain't it given how Bednar deploys players and how they've performed to-date. Whether he even wants to fix this season is another question. The guy might genuinely be waiting for Gabriel Landeksog to return next season before he does anything due to cap questions.

 

[Balthazar]

So as things stand today:

Pros:

• The Avs have done a nice job gathering points against a soft schedule. There is a buffer for the stretch run.
• Despite the issues, Avs are within earshot of the top of the West.
• MacK and Nuke are playing very well. Yeah some moments haven't been great and Nuke took ~8 games to work off his summer, but both have been great.
• Makar even at less than 100% is still amazing.
• The Central looks incredibly weak.
• Colton-Wood-LOC as a line fit the system very well
• Olofsson as been all you can ask for out of a 4C
• Manson has been passable to positive to 15-20 games now. Still not worth his contract, but playing at a top 4 level.
• The callup guys have mostly been fine

Cons:

• The 2nd line is atrocious. Drouin has been better of late, but he's always been streaky too... this could simply be a hot streak
• Extending on the Ryjo is cooked. You might be able to get some use of him as a PP1 bumper guy, but he has been outright terrible. It would be very risky to think playoff RyJo still exists.
• Goaltending has been really bad. George has been a bottom 5-10 starter. Prosvetov has been very erratic. Some fantastic games followed by real stinkers. George... what's killing him is the soft goals. His high danger and harder saves have been fine. He has just been letting in a bad goal with regularity.
• Coaching... now before people jump on it, I get why Bednar is doing what he is... he's trying to win now. I think it is missing the longer-term view though. Overplaying top guys to struggle to get wins against bad teams may help today and get a few more points, but the long-term pain of that is just too great.
• Byram... he's been objectively bad this year and wasn't good last year too. We are now as a trend point where he is showing more of a replacement level middle pairing D rather than a high end guy. He has more talent than that, he needs to show it.
• Girard's issues... we don't know when he will be back, but as things stand now the team really misses his IQ and puck movement.
• IQ as a whole. The Avs are not an especially smart team... they rely on a lot of guys who have some absurd physical traits. But even the smart guys are making huge mistakes. Some of it is laziness and some of it is just flat out stupidity. It is clear as day when you take out two actually smart players in G and Makar just how bad this team is at making a decision exiting the zone. It is horrific to watch this team galaxy brain their way around the ice. None of the forwards lines are smart, they guy by on ability. The defensive pairings last night, also not smart. Toews can be better in this area and shown more, so he stands out like a sore thumb... but JMFJ, Manson, and especially Byram are brain cramping their way around the ice.

Now I don't think any of this is unsolvable, but the Avs really have their work cut out for them. Dumb hockey with bad goaltending is going to be a way to spring golf. If the schedule and central weren't so weak, the Avs might be in some legit trouble. As of right now they have buffer, but it is going to start getting tested.

I agree that we really miss Girard but we also won the cup without him and the D was fine.

RyJo is literally at the center of all issues, it's a domino effect:

The team is extremely top heavy due to having no 2nd line. This creates all kinds of problems, some players play too much, others are trying too much to compensate, this leads to a turnover galore and ultimately it hurts everyone including goaltending.

 

[henchman21]

I agree that we really miss Girard but we also won the cup without him and the D was fine.

RyJo is literally at the center of all issues, it's a domino effect:

The team is extremely top heavy due to having no 2nd line. This creates all kinds of problems, some players play too much, others are trying too much to compensate, this leads to a turnover galore and ultimately it hurts everyone including goaltending.

The Cup team was deeper up front to absorb Girard being out. Along with that, Byram didn't play nearly as much hero hockey.

It is a bit unfair to put it all on RyJo, but he is a big issue. The 2C and whole 2nd line need solved. Along with that, the Avs need their middle pairing to play like an actual middle paring. There just isn't enough depth outside the top guys right now. There are guys putting in admirable efforts, but that isn't enough to overcome things.

 

[dahrougem2]

We can't compare this team, or any team, to that cup team. Literally the most dominant cup team of the cap era and even cup teams from before the cap era weren't as dominant as the 16-4 Avs.

That was a once-in-a-generation team. It's not the standard. Yes, we can hope for added depth but that team would run through every last Stanley Cup champion of the last 20 years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I agree that we really miss Girard but we also won the cup without him and the D was fine.

RyJo is literally at the center of all issues, it's a domino effect:

The team is extremely top heavy due to having no 2nd line. This creates all kinds of problems, some players play too much, others are trying too much to compensate, this leads to a turnover galore and ultimately it hurts everyone including goaltending.

It’s definitely not all on RyJo… the team is just significantly worse all around than the team was during the cup run. Kadri, not replaced. Bura not replaced. Lehky is now in a role he’s not quite capable of. Drouin is in a role that’s still up for debate if he’s good enough for. RyJo sucks and is 100% part of the problem but there’s a ton of guys playing in roles they aren’t capable of and that trickles down and affects everyone. Add in some regression with some older guys and it’s a typical issue for teams that contend.

 

[sethro109]

It’s definitely not all on RyJo… the team is just significantly worse all around than the team was during the cup run. Kadri, not replaced. Bura not replaced. Lehky is now in a role he’s not quite capable of. Drouin is in a role that’s still up for debate if he’s good enough for. RyJo sucks and is 100% part of the problem but there’s a ton of guys playing in roles they aren’t capable of and that trickles down and affects everyone. Add in some regression with some older guys and it’s a typical issue for teams that contend.

Lehky is in the same role as our cup run. 2nd line wing. Bura was demoted to the 3rd line.

 

[missionAvs]

We can't compare this team, or any team, to that cup team. Literally the most dominant cup team of the cap era and even cup teams from before the cap era weren't as dominant as the 16-4 Avs.

That was a once-in-a-generation team. It's not the standard. Yes, we can hope for added depth but that team would run through every last Stanley Cup champion of the last 20 years.

I'm still pissed it wasn't 16-3. That series against the Blues should have ended in 5 off the back of that epic MacK goal.

 

[Pokecheque]

• IQ as a whole. The Avs are not an especially smart team... they rely on a lot of guys who have some absurd physical traits. But even the smart guys are making huge mistakes. Some of it is laziness and some of it is just flat out stupidity. It is clear as day when you take out two actually smart players in G and Makar just how bad this team is at making a decision exiting the zone. It is horrific to watch this team galaxy brain their way around the ice. None of the forwards lines are smart, they guy by on ability. The defensive pairings last night, also not smart. Toews can be better in this area and shown more, so he stands out like a sore thumb... but JMFJ, Manson, and especially Byram are brain cramping their way around the ice.

I think just as glaring has been the loss of Lehkonen (and obviously the continued absence of Landeskog) up front. Now it's basically Nuke and a whole host of forwards who are talented but just don't defend very well. The Avs had this problem before and that's why they went out and got Lehkonen and Nuke in the first place.

 

[S E P H]

So as things stand today:

Pros:

• The Avs have done a nice job gathering points against a soft schedule. There is a buffer for the stretch run.
• Despite the issues, Avs are within earshot of the top of the West.
• MacK and Nuke are playing very well. Yeah some moments haven't been great and Nuke took ~8 games to work off his summer, but both have been great.
• Makar even at less than 100% is still amazing.
• The Central looks incredibly weak.
• Colton-Wood-LOC as a line fit the system very well
• Olofsson as been all you can ask for out of a 4C
• Manson has been passable to positive to 15-20 games now. Still not worth his contract, but playing at a top 4 level.
• The callup guys have mostly been fine

Cons:

• The 2nd line is atrocious. Drouin has been better of late, but he's always been streaky too... this could simply be a hot streak
• Extending on the Ryjo is cooked. You might be able to get some use of him as a PP1 bumper guy, but he has been outright terrible. It would be very risky to think playoff RyJo still exists.
• Goaltending has been really bad. George has been a bottom 5-10 starter. Prosvetov has been very erratic. Some fantastic games followed by real stinkers. George... what's killing him is the soft goals. His high danger and harder saves have been fine. He has just been letting in a bad goal with regularity.
• Coaching... now before people jump on it, I get why Bednar is doing what he is... he's trying to win now. I think it is missing the longer-term view though. Overplaying top guys to struggle to get wins against bad teams may help today and get a few more points, but the long-term pain of that is just too great.
• Byram... he's been objectively bad this year and wasn't good last year too. We are now as a trend point where he is showing more of a replacement level middle pairing D rather than a high end guy. He has more talent than that, he needs to show it.
• Girard's issues... we don't know when he will be back, but as things stand now the team really misses his IQ and puck movement.
• IQ as a whole. The Avs are not an especially smart team... they rely on a lot of guys who have some absurd physical traits. But even the smart guys are making huge mistakes. Some of it is laziness and some of it is just flat out stupidity. It is clear as day when you take out two actually smart players in G and Makar just how bad this team is at making a decision exiting the zone. It is horrific to watch this team galaxy brain their way around the ice. None of the forwards lines are smart, they guy by on ability. The defensive pairings last night, also not smart. Toews can be better in this area and shown more, so he stands out like a sore thumb... but JMFJ, Manson, and especially Byram are brain cramping their way around the ice.

Now I don't think any of this is unsolvable, but the Avs really have their work cut out for them. Dumb hockey with bad goaltending is going to be a way to spring golf. If the schedule and central weren't so weak, the Avs might be in some legit trouble. As of right now they have buffer, but it is going to start getting tested.

Great post, especially with Bednar. He takes a fair share of the blame as well.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Lehky is in the same role as our cup run. 2nd line wing. Bura was demoted to the 3rd line.

Sort of… He was 3rd wheeling in the top 6 during the cup run. He’s still on the 2nd line but with the deficiencies in the top 6 and roster as a whole he doesn’t quite have the ability to produce offense as well as most 2nd line wingers. So while he‘s on the same line his deficiencies show more now than they did when he was 3rd wheeling.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

The Cup team was deeper up front to absorb Girard being out. Along with that, Byram didn't play nearly as much hero hockey.

It is a bit unfair to put it all on RyJo, but he is a big issue. The 2C and whole 2nd line need solved. Along with that, the Avs need their middle pairing to play like an actual middle paring. There just isn't enough depth outside the top guys right now. There are guys putting in admirable efforts, but that isn't enough to overcome things.

That team was also highly motivated to win a cup. This year, and last year's, team doesn't seem to be as motivated, esp. after some of them got paid. They didn't seem to care until about a month before the playoffs started last year, and then they were too beat up to beat Seattle. This year is worse.

 

[the_fan]

Get Lindholm and the 2nd line problem should be solved when Lehky comes back

Lehky-Lindholm-Drouin/Nuke

Although a better winger than Drouin what they would need come playoff time but maybe that’s where Landy comes in

 

[Balthazar]

Sort of… He was 3rd wheeling in the top 6 during the cup run. He’s still on the 2nd line but with the deficiencies in the top 6 and roster as a whole he doesn’t quite have the ability to produce offense as well as most 2nd line wingers. So while he‘s on the same line his deficiencies show more now than they did when he was 3rd wheeling.

What deficiencies? Before the injury Lehky was the same player he ever was with the Avs: a plug and play winger for the top 6. He had 8 points in 12 games, roughly the same PPG he had last year and the year before.

Lehky is the most consistent player on this roster and it's not close.

Ideally he'd be the 5th best forward on the team, not the 4th.

 

[The Abusement Park]

What deficiencies? Before the injury Lehky was the same player he ever was with the Avs: a plug and play winger for the top 6. He had 8 points in 12 games, roughly the same PPG he had last year and the year before.

He’s not going to pick up the offensive slack and drive a line. We saw how much that Ryjo-Nuke-Lehk line struggled to create offense when they were together. Might be different now that Nukes back to normal, but when Lehk can 3rd wheel when he’s with Mack he’s great and will produce. And will continue to because he’s the perfect compliment to talented players. But when there’s no line driver Lehkonen won’t be a consistent catalyst.

 

[Balthazar]

He’s not going to pick up the offensive slack and drive a line. We saw how much that Ryjo-Nuke-Lehk line struggled to create offense when they were together. Might be different now that Nukes back to normal, but when Lehk can 3rd wheel when he’s with Mack he’s great and will produce. And will continue to because he’s the perfect compliment to talented players. But when there’s no line driver Lehkonen won’t be a consistent catalyst.

Yea but no winger can make up for RyJo's play, not even Rants.

Where I agree with you is there's a top 6er missing, when Lehky is your 4th best forward it's too high.

That can be fixed easily with a decent 2C. Ideally it would look like Mack, Rants, 2C, Nuke, Lehky, Drouin. In that order.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yea but no winger can make up for RyJo's play, not even Rants.

Where I agree with you is there's a top 6er missing, when Lehky is your 4th best forward it's too high.

That can be fixed easily with a decent 2C. Ideally it would look like Mack, Rants, 2C, Nuke, Lehky, Drouin. In that order.

Yeah I'm not saying Lehky is a problem and needs to be removed or anything. Just that he's not ideally someone you want to do the offensive lifting in the top 6 and that's a team construction issue, not a Lehky issue. Give him some to do the offensive driving and he will make their life easy with his forechecking and defensive ability.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Georgiev' mask

Like @henchman21 said, the giant red nose is apt for this clown.

fker is starting to remind me of Groob, only difference is I like him more as a human.