Post-Game Talk: We could’ve had Debrincat

[McBeastMode]

We better wake the f*** up quick, because if we decide that we’re going to go back to the well of stupid, incompetent lazy hockey against Montreal we will lose against them too.

This f***ing team. Every other team we are fighting with for playoff position would have easily won this game. Not us though, we just have to bring out a lazy D level game when it matters.

This time last year McDavid had 105 points in 56 games

 

[ujju2]

So are Foegele and Hyman..
You take the point and move on

Um what???

 

[GOilers88]

I actually think the effort must first (and always) come from within. It's the one thing all players at any level can control. Too often the Oiler teams for like forever are reactive, not assertive in their play. Kane's press quote last night about playing with more 'drive' and 'grit' is a telling first impression.

By example Foegele is a suitable 3W player but can and should do more to give this team energy when slotted into this position. When higher in the lineup, it's the bare minimum requirement to add value to the better skill around him. Yamamoto gets slagged a lot here for what he's not. But I'll never criticize the work rate, effort and willingness the smallest guy on the ice has to go into the battle areas on the ice. Missing top six productivity but I think Yamamoto can be a really solid 3W energy player. Now imagine if guys like Foegele and Kassian who have the raw physical toolkits could be infused with Yamamoto's heart and compete.

Coming out of Chiarelli handcuffs this team has tried to tinker with a variety of cheap, quick fix ways to build up the bottom six quality - reclamation projects Turris and Perlini; Euro dart board veteran free agents Haas and the fast Swedish guy; covid free agent fringers like Shore and Sceviours. Onboarding AHL prospect wishful thinking like Benson. The hope is something will stick but overwhelmingly what we see are badly fit player types or skillsets to give this team some physical pushback in the lower end of a high finesse forward group. Deploying the wrong player type imo.

Again I don't disagree. One of the knocks on Tippett that I hated was that he failed to have them ready to go at puckdrop, because why do these million dollar athletes need a coach to have them pumped and ready to work each game?

But for so many years now its been a problem plaguing this organization over multiple rosters, coaches, and management teams.

It gets to a point where I can no longer accept that its just a player problem. Especially when some of these players like Foegele, who came directly from a hard nosed, accountable franchise, lose it here. It runs deeper than the players on the ice. I think that because those at the top have accepted half efforts for so long, you can't reasonably blame the guys on the front lines for not giving it their all 100 percent of the time, or get mad at them when they slip.

When management is held to a different standard, it usually leads to the front line workers not being as invested. Attitude directly reflects leadership.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Again I don't disagree. One of the knocks on Tippett that I hated was that he failed to have them ready to go at puckdrop, because why do these million dollar athletes need a coach to have them pumped and ready to work each game?

But for so many years now its been a problem plaguing this organization over multiple rosters, coaches, and management teams.

It gets to a point where I can no longer accept that its just a player problem. Especially when some of these players like Foegele, who came directly from a hard nosed, accountable franchise, lose it here. It runs deeper than the players on the ice. I think that because those at the top have accepted half efforts for so long, you can't reasonably blame the guys on the front lines for not giving it their all 100 percent of the time, or get mad at them when they slip.

When management is held to a different standard, it usually leads to the front line workers not being as invested. Attitude directly reflects leadership.

This would imply that management is held to any standard.

 

[Faelko]

Um what???

He hates Hyman.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Again I don't disagree. One of the knocks on Tippett that I hated was that he failed to have them ready to go at puckdrop, because why do these million dollar athletes need a coach to have them pumped and ready to work each game?

But for so many years now its been a problem plaguing this organization over multiple rosters, coaches, and management teams.

It gets to a point where I can no longer accept that its just a player problem. Especially when some of these players like Foegele, who came directly from a hard nosed, accountable franchise, lose it here. It runs deeper than the players on the ice. I think that because those at the top have accepted half efforts for so long, you can't reasonably blame the guys on the front lines for not giving it their all 100 percent of the time, or get mad at them when they slip.

When management is held to a different standard, it usually leads to the front line workers not being as invested. Attitude directly reflects leadership.

Appreciate your pov. I don't believe work rate and commitment is a coaching issue.

I'm not sure if Foegele 'lost it' here. Seems to me he comes as advertised as a streaky, inconsistent player who shows well in snapshots but never locks in the raw tools to move the needle beyond a 3W support guy. Watching him every game as an Oilers fan I just see him as he is. Not the gang buster crasher puck hunter to begin the year and not dead weight non NHLer but a player who can slot in at 3W good enough for 12-18 goals but with a lot of drift in his game that keeps him stalled at that bottom six level.

Conversely, I noted a homegrown guy Yamamoto who will go through walls to pursue pucks who is betrayed only by his size and strength against NHL opponents. Put Yamamoto's heart into Foegele or Kassian and you have a compelling power forward type who doesn't cheat on effort. It's easy to get mesmerized by raw physical skill but if the internal pilot light flickers out then the promise is usually unfulfilled.

The old adage is a big player has to prove he can't play. A small player has to prove he can. This has been a long held bias in drafting players and why guys like Fleury, Galagher, St. Louis and the like slipped through in the draft. The internal drive to succeed is an intangible that's often misdiagnosed in favour of raw physical package.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

Get out that blender Woody!

Foegel-Mcdavid-Drai
Kane-Mcleod-Hyman
Benson-Ryan-Yamamoto
Malone-Turris

 

[GOilers88]

This would imply that management is held to any standard.

Will definitely agree with you there

 

[GOilers88]

Appreciate your pov. I don't believe work rate and commitment is a coaching issue.

I'm not sure if Foegele 'lost it' here. Seems to me he comes as advertised as a streaky, inconsistent player who shows well in snapshots but never locks in the raw tools to move the needle beyond a 3W support guy. Watching him every game as an Oilers fan I just see him as he is. Not the gang buster crasher puck hunter to begin the year and not dead weight non NHLer but a player who can slot in at 3W good enough for 12-18 goals but with a lot of drift in his game that keeps him stalled at that bottom six level.

Conversely, I noted a homegrown guy Yamamoto who will go through walls to pursue pucks who is betrayed only by his size and strength against NHL opponents. Put Yamamoto's heart into Foegele or Kassian and you have a compelling power forward type who doesn't cheat on effort. It's easy to get mesmerized by raw physical skill but if the internal pilot light flickers out then the promise is usually unfulfilled.

The old adage is a big player has to prove he can't play. A small player has to prove he can. This has been a long held bias in drafting players and why guys like Fleury, Galagher, St. Louis and the like slipped through in the draft. The internal drive to succeed is an intangible that's often misdiagnosed in favour of raw physical package.

Agree on the work rate and commitment.

Also a fair assessment of both Foegele and Yamo. I do think Foegele is a decent third liner that we can use, but like you say his inconsistency will frustrate and keep him as just that, a third liner. We've definitely exacerbated the situation by playing him up the lineup.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's pronounced fejelly ....soooooooo jelly.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Agree on the work rate and commitment.

Also a fair assessment of both Foegele and Yamo. I do think Foegele is a decent third liner that we can use, but like you say his inconsistency will frustrate and keep him as just that, a third liner. We've definitely exacerbated the situation by playing him up the lineup.

He can in small snapshots. But it comes and goes too easily with the player. Even with Kane, this team needs a NHL veteran volume shooting finisher within its top six (able to bump Yamamoto to 3W energy player). Trouble is this team was strip mined by the time Chiarelli finally got the keys taken away and is trying to retool quickly into a legitimate playoff team. Holland's spent to try to add the quality, high end support pieces but has largely missed on cheap gambles on bottom six types. No longer the pre-cap Red Wings where you can spend your way out of organizational mistakes and the covid flat cap has compounded the elbow room to reshape the missing roster pieces.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[McAsuno]

 

[Sweetpotato]

100%. I hate Spector but I hope this happens. Need to make an effort to get people in there with yellow and blue.

 

[Tyrolean]

Again I don't disagree. One of the knocks on Tippett that I hated was that he failed to have them ready to go at puckdrop, because why do these million dollar athletes need a coach to have them pumped and ready to work each game?

But for so many years now its been a problem plaguing this organization over multiple rosters, coaches, and management teams.

It gets to a point where I can no longer accept that its just a player problem. Especially when some of these players like Foegele, who came directly from a hard nosed, accountable franchise, lose it here. It runs deeper than the players on the ice. I think that because those at the top have accepted half efforts for so long, you can't reasonably blame the guys on the front lines for not giving it their all 100 percent of the time, or get mad at them when they slip.

When management is held to a different standard, it usually leads to the front line workers not being as invested. Attitude directly reflects leadership.

Bad pro scouting, guaranteed contracts, overpayment and NTC/NMC.

 

[frag2]

Appreciate your pov. I don't believe work rate and commitment is a coaching issue.

I'm not sure if Foegele 'lost it' here. Seems to me he comes as advertised as a streaky, inconsistent player who shows well in snapshots but never locks in the raw tools to move the needle beyond a 3W support guy. Watching him every game as an Oilers fan I just see him as he is. Not the gang buster crasher puck hunter to begin the year and not dead weight non NHLer but a player who can slot in at 3W good enough for 12-18 goals but with a lot of drift in his game that keeps him stalled at that bottom six level.

Conversely, I noted a homegrown guy Yamamoto who will go through walls to pursue pucks who is betrayed only by his size and strength against NHL opponents. Put Yamamoto's heart into Foegele or Kassian and you have a compelling power forward type who doesn't cheat on effort. It's easy to get mesmerized by raw physical skill but if the internal pilot light flickers out then the promise is usually unfulfilled.

The old adage is a big player has to prove he can't play. A small player has to prove he can. This has been a long held bias in drafting players and why guys like Fleury, Galagher, St. Louis and the like slipped through in the draft. The internal drive to succeed is an intangible that's often misdiagnosed in favour of raw physical package.

Wouldn't that just be Hyman? lol I suppose this team could use a few more of him [though less tunnel vision would be nice]

 

[ujju2]

100%. I have Spector but I hope this happens. Need to make an effort to get people in there with yellow and blue.

I hate Spector AND love Ovi and but hope this happens.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Wouldn't that just be Hyman? lol I suppose this team could use a few more of him [though less tunnel vision would be nice]

The difference is if your system is producing Hyman-types versus having to compete to attract this type of producer via competitive free agency ask. It's millions of dollars saved including peak years performance versus paying for aging out career years with top bucks and Edmonton term (usually 1 or more years than market).

Personally I'd be more than happy with more than one Hyman-type on this team. If this organization could magically manifest one through some drafting competence I'd be over the moon. Hoping Holloway can be 'that guy.'

 

[Stoneman89]

Despite giving up a ghastly goal, Koskinen the only reason we got a point, so I''ll take it. Tough one for Drai to take in OT, but it wasn't lazy by any stretch, just aggressively trying to get the puck. First game I get to watch in full for a while, and they come up with a stinker.

 

[Oilhawks]

Posters complaining about a 3rd liner not being able to be a top 6 player is peak HFOil.

Foegele is a legitimate 3rd liner, let’s run him out of town because he can’t play in the top 6.

Also, let’s whine about the top 9 when they’re not missing an entire top 9 line of players due to injury, maybe?

 

[Stoneman89]

Went .500 vs the Hawks this year. Not great but they hardly “own” the Oilers like everyone seems to think. People still having PTSD over that play-in series I see…lol

About past time to prove otherwise, isn't it?

 

[nally]

Wonder how much longer until Holloway is called up…

When it doesn't effect his contract status moving forward

 

[nabob]

When it doesn't effect his contract status moving forward

I’m not too up to date on the CBA with regards to rookies, but doesn’t him being in the AHL use a year of his contract? Or does him playing less NHL games this year extend the time until he’s a UFA??

 

[nabob]

Posters complaining about a 3rd liner not being able to be a top 6 player is peak HFOil.

Foegele is a legitimate 3rd liner, let’s run him out of town because he can’t play in the top 6.

Also, let’s whine about the top 9 when they’re not missing an entire top 9 line of players due to injury, maybe?

Like

 

[nally]

I’m not too up to date on the CBA with regards to rookies, but doesn’t him being in the AHL use a year of his contract? Or does him playing less NHL games this year extend the time until he’s a UFA??

I meant more as it pertains to landing him a year closer to UFA. Can only play 9 games in NHL this year. 10 games would take a year off the back end of his contract. NOT worth it if you ask me. Keep him down there until the end of the year then bring him up