We are serious contenders!

[meefer]

Well, it’s been awhile since my last post, mostly because I was gutted by our loss to Boston. That, and a bit of vitriol that was dominating the discussions around here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but the two together caused me to step back and shut-up...for which I’m sure many here are thankful.
A few observations:
*Darn it, we were close. Down Kadri, with Hyman, Dermott and Gards all seriously injured...the NHL is a cruel mistress.
*Babcock: I’m very irritated with our coach, but not to the point where I would fire him. The upcoming season is his litmus test. He either adapts or he’s gone. I don’t care so much if they lose early in the season as injuries/recoveries will test the team’s abilities in the early going, but Babs needs to show more flexibility than he has to date. His personality may rub the wrong way, but he is an experienced, very capable coach. Now is the time to show he’s more than he has been in the past. If he can’t, bye bye. Our ST coaches should be replaced. I would not bring up Sheldon Keefe as putting a rookie NHL coach into this market doesn’t digest well. A heck of a coach, though.
*Dubas: takes more flack around here than he deserves. That said, this offseason will forge his reputation. He has a lot to do. Marner, the Cap, D concerns etc., these would test experienced GMs, I wish him well, he’s going to be busy. If he bats .750, I’ll consider it a success.
*Combustibles: Marleau, Kadri, Nylander, Zaitsev, Gards, Hainsey. Thank you Patrick, but your day is done. Zaitsev for a 2nd + ??? (Nothing substantial) and use the 2nd to help move Patrick. Hainsey @ 1M max and a promise from Babs that he won’t be Morgan’s partner. Gards, sign him at Zaitsev number (if you can 4x4.5) and he becomes Morgan’s partner or a very valuable trade chip. Willy N, oh vey, for me the kid has too much talent to give up on...for me. Kadri, shanks for the memories, there’s got to be a team willing to take a chance that he tames that temper, a competent D, rh preferably, please.
*I agreed with the selection of our back-up goalie at the beginning of the season. I was wrong. Something needs to be done, Kyle.
*Kapanen to be traded, Edmonton?

And still, a fair bit to do. Happily, I don’t think the odds are insurmountable. We’ve some options with the Marlies, the chance for trades, internal growth and improved coaching. Of course, not all of theses and other issues will be solved. However, if Dubas can shave the payroll a bit (Marleau and Zaitsev) there’s wiggle room for improvement. These playoffs are showing the reality of parity in today’s game. We were darned close this year to taking down Boston with 20% of our roster in tatters. We’ve a solid core, skilled as any, and now with a few years under their belt. Some decent pruning and a modicum of good luck and I still favour our chances of being a contender next year.

 

[Once]

Our time will come.

People flipping out, still, and our core is less than 25 years old. Shit, St Louis and San Jose have been after it for a damn near decade and have shit to show for it.

Trust the process.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Our time will come.

People flipping out, still, and our core is less than 25 years old. ****, St Louis and San Jose have been after it for a damn near decade and have **** to show for it.

Trust the process.

The concern is thus:
When our 2 "utterly elite" young players made $2 mil between them, management still couldn't surround them with the depth to escape the first round. Now a full $TWENTY MILLION (at least) is being taken away from that depth.

I don't really see how anyone could have a positive outlook on that...

 

[Fakejake51]

The concern is thus:
When our 2 "utterly elite" young players made $2 mil between them, management still couldn't surround them with the depth to escape the first round. Now a full $TWENTY MILLION (at least) is being taken away from that depth.

I don't really see how anyone could have a positive outlook on that...

100% Agreed. I’m thinking you gotta shed one of Marner or Nylander. I pray for an offer sheet on Marner. Take the 4 firsts and run.

 

[Nithoniniel]

100% Agreed. I’m thinking you gotta shed one of Marner or Nylander. I pray for an offer sheet on Marner. Take the 4 firsts and run.

Unless we can use that cap space on a great player, I don't give this even a second. We could get 10 firsts and not get a player like Marner. One superstar and three smart depth signings is always better than four good NHLers, and we're not promised that either.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

100% Agreed. I’m thinking you gotta shed one of Marner or Nylander. I pray for an offer sheet on Marner. Take the 4 firsts and run.

Yeah, I'm starting to think this wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I would much rather have Marner at fair market value for an rfa winger... but if another team wants to pay him as a ufa winger, while giving us 4 first round picks, I'm simply ok with that at this point.

 

[sessiroth]

Yeah, I'm starting to think this wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I would much rather have Marner at fair market value for an rfa winger... but if another team wants to pay him as a ufa winger, while giving us 4 first round picks, I'm simply ok with that at this point.

Especially since you can add panarin for free. He has shown interest in the leafs. I'd rather have panarin + 4 1st then marner if there priced the same

 

[Its not your fault]

The concern is thus:
When our 2 "utterly elite" young players made $2 mil between them, management still couldn't surround them with the depth to escape the first round. Now a full $TWENTY MILLION (at least) is being taken away from that depth.

I don't really see how anyone could have a positive outlook on that...

So trade all future assets for a couple skilled older players that we will have to just let walk anyway.

 

[Fakejake51]

Yeah. Panari at 11 or 12 million. These comments are the dumbest on HFboards and are shared by a few people.

Or disliked by the narrow minded who miss the fact we’ve been eliminated in round 1 twice because of a feeble playoff lineup.

 

[rumman]

Our time will come.

People flipping out, still, and our core is less than 25 years old. ****, St Louis and San Jose have been after it for a damn near decade and have **** to show for it.

Trust the process.

love the optimism, of course I'm one of the lucky few who actually saw the leafs win a cup, been waiting a long time for it to happen again.

That gets old after 50+ years.

 

[rumman]

The concern is thus:
When our 2 "utterly elite" young players made $2 mil between them, management still couldn't surround them with the depth to escape the first round. Now a full $TWENTY MILLION (at least) is being taken away from that depth.

I don't really see how anyone could have a positive outlook on that...

trust the process.

 

[member 262271]

If say this year it was imperative we win a round, then you’d think 2nd or WC would be the goal. Leafs underperformed in terms of finishing third again, lots of reasons why. Special teams, stubborn coaching, etc etc - so while I have been very disappointed, their back is against the wall with this format. In an odd way it makes the regular season matter, which I previously had though it absolutely didn’t.

Personally I’ll be stepping back from watching every game in the regular season anyways, and the playoffs have been unwatchable for me for a long time. That’s not to say there weren’t highs this year against Boston, but hockey gets me less and less invested every year.

All that aside, with no playoff format change incoming (I assume), it looks like the Leafs will have to play much better than this year throughout the regular season, imagine the stress!

EDIT: Regarding the WC spot, you don’t play to lose (Right Babs...? ) - so that’s not even really an option. It’s fun to think though if they were just a little bit worse, however then that increases the chances of being caught.

 

[Notsince67]

Or disliked by the narrow minded who miss the fact we’ve been eliminated in round 1 twice because of a feeble playoff lineup.

Yeah. Panarin will fix the problem as an inferior player

 

[Fakejake51]

Yeah. Panarin will fix the problem as an inferior player

Totally missed the 4 firsts. Sorry man. Marner is an October champion. One dimensional. Take away any pass and he’s rendered useless.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Especially since you can add panarin for free. He has shown interest in the leafs. I'd rather have panarin + 4 1st then marner if there priced the same

People need to stop with the Panarin and the Four 1st angle.

The likelihood of all those cards falling into place is so freaking slim. Odds are, nobody will offer sheet Marner, and even if they did, it would have to be 10.5m+ to get the four 1sts. Then on top of that rare occurrence happening, Marner has to accept it..... then Parnarin has to agree to move to Toronto, and this better all go down very soon after free agency starts on July 1st because Parnarin is 100% gone on July 1st. Probably by 1pm.

If we sign Panarin, it's a much better chance, and smarter move to just straight up trade Marner.
At least with a trade you know 100% your getting back valuable proven assets. Four 20ish OVA picks is a huge gamble. Odds state that you will probably lose that gamble and never get anything close to Marner.

Not that I would want to trade Marner..... but if crap hit the fan, a trade is way better than an offer sheet.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yeah. Panari at 11 or 12 million. These comments are the dumbest on HFboards and are shared by a few people.

I don't want either at 11 or 12 million. If I had to choose though, I'd take Panarin if 4 firsts were coming along with him.

To be blunt, I don't want Marner at all for more than 9ish money. This team is dangerously close to reverting to Muskoka 5 entitlement territory.

I would have sat Nylander out for the season last year. With that window closed, I would take a hard line with Marner. I'm not sure people see it coming but I think this season will be wasted regards due to cap issues and coaching. If there was ever a year to let everyone on the team know they can get with the program or gtfo, it's now.

 

[Bomber0104]

Unless we can use that cap space on a great player, I don't give this even a second. We could get 10 firsts and not get a player like Marner. One superstar and three smart depth signings is always better than four good NHLers, and we're not promised that either.

No it isn't and literally every team currently in contention for the Cup can refute that ridiculous idea.

And let's be honest, if they went in the direction of those other teams with balance up and down the lineup (both in talent and cap spending), you'd argue that's the best direction.

But I guess since this is the path the Leafs are going down (paying absolute top dollar for their core and dumpster diving to fill in the rest of the lineup), obviously you're going to say that.

 

[Notsince67]

I don't want either at 11 or 12 million. If I had to choose though, I'd take Panarin if 4 firsts were coming along with him.

To be blunt, I don't want Marner at all for more than 9ish money. This team is dangerously close to reverting to Muskoka 5 entitlement territory.

I would have sat Nylander out for the season last year. With that window closed, I would take a hard line with Marner. I'm not sure people see it coming but I think this season will be wasted regards due to cap issues and coaching. If there was ever a year to let everyone on the team know they can get with the program or gtfo, it's now.

Marner at 10.5 is more valuable than Nylander at 7. It is basic math.

 

[Al14]

Our Leafs are serious contenders for nothing but a 1st round exit again next season. That's if they even make the playoffs in the first place.

With Babcock as captain of the ship, with Marleau as his helmsman, and Brown relieving him, our Leafs are bound to hit an iceberg, and sink faster than the Titanic. Might even happen BEFORE they even make the playoffs.

The mutiny, lead by Matthews and Nylander, has been squashed by Dubas! All hail the mighty Captain Babcock!

JMHO! I truly hope my opinion is completely wrong, however, I thought there was no way our Leafs would have suffered the same fate 2 years running! And, here we are!

 

[bentharbs]

Since when is 21-23 the ceiling for players? I would like to think players like Marner, Auston, Willie, Dermott, and Kap are capable of taking a big step. Just seems like many people around here are assuming that there is no room to improve. If those five get better (and re-signed within the cap, which I'm not saying is likely or not) and we don't "improve" the roster, we still improve IMO; even with our D issues. If Marner and AM take a huge step to the next level - which is still more than possible - then we improve, period.

 

[Dayjobdave]

No it isn't and literally every team currently in contention for the Cup can refute that ridiculous idea.
.

This is an interesting point.

I think what Vegas demonstrated in their first year is that you can do just as well with a competitive advantage at the bottom of your lineup as you can with an advantage at the top.

Ie. if your 3rd and 4th lines are almost second lines, this may be better than having stars.

Leaf management is going “stars” and banking on strong development.

Should be fun to watch.

 

[Fakejake51]

Since when is 21-23 the ceiling for players? I would like to think players like Marner, Auston, Willie, Dermott, and Kap are capable of taking a big step. Just seems like many people around here are assuming that there is no room to improve. If those five get better (and re-signed within the cap, which I'm not saying is likely or not) and we don't "improve" the roster, we still improve IMO; even with our D issues. If Marner and AM take a huge step to the next level - which is still more than possible - then we improve, period.

In what regard? The willingness to fight through playoff traffic?

 

[bentharbs]

In what regard? The willingness to fight through playoff traffic?

Many ways to improve. Namely, the ability to score more goals than the other team.

 

[Bomber0104]

This is an interesting point.

I think what Vegas demonstrated in their first year is that you can do just as well with a competitive advantage at the bottom of your lineup as you can with an advantage at the top.

Ie. if your 3rd and 4th lines are almost second lines, this may be better than having stars.

Leaf management is going “stars” and banking on strong development.

Should be fun to watch.

Paying $10+ million for 3 players is a fine strategy to take so long as there's a 2nd wave of drafted talent coming up immediately behind them on their own ELC's.

That's not what's happening right now.

We're dumpster diving for minimum wage spare parts from other organizations and the international free agent market.

 

[Notsince67]

People need to stop with the Panarin and the Four 1st angle.

The likelihood of all those cards falling into place is so freaking slim. Odds are, nobody will offer sheet Marner, and even if they did, it would have to be 10.5m+ to get the four 1sts. Then on top of that rare occurrence happening, Marner has to accept it..... then Parnarin has to agree to move to Toronto, and this better all go down very soon after free agency starts on July 1st because Parnarin is 100% gone on July 1st. Probably by 1pm.

If we sign Panarin, it's a much better chance, and smarter move to just straight up trade Marner.
At least with a trade you know 100% your getting back valuable proven assets. Four 20ish OVA picks is a huge gamble. Odds state that you will probably lose that gamble and never get anything close to Marner.

Not that I would want to trade Marner..... but if crap hit the fan, a trade is way better than an offer sheet.

This is absolutely true. The 4 first round picks is a casual fan angle that makes no sense.