"We’re looking for a great improvement on what we did last year."

The Devilish Buffoon

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Dec 24, 2018
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This year's trade deadline is going to be the tie-breaker, IMO.

I see what you mean but Muckler chipped away at a cup contending team year after year while trading picks and prospects for completely marginal players. He made a Burrows for Dahlen type deal every year. He was a terrible drafter to the point that it hurt us for 10+ years after he was fired and he destroyed our rep with FAs

Dorion made a bad team worse , Muckler took a perennial contender and slammed the window shut

Hopefully Dorion gets some guys signed and trades the others for good returns so that a tie-breaker isnt needed
 

God Says No

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Mar 16, 2012
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I see what you mean but Muckler chipped away at a cup contending team year after year while trading picks and prospects for completely marginal players. He made a Burrows for Dahlen type deal every year. He was a terrible drafter to the point that it hurt us for 10+ years after he was fired and he destroyed our rep with FAs

Dorion made a bad team worse , Muckler took a perennial contender and slammed the window shut

Hopefully Dorion gets some guys signed and trades the others for good returns so that a tie-breaker isnt needed

Was the team bad? I don't think so. It wasn't a ECF team, but was on the bubble for playoffs. Dorion took that and made it one of the worst in the league while lying through his teeth that it will be better. That's what irks me the most.
 
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The Devilish Buffoon

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Was the team bad? I don't think so. It wasn't a ECF team, but was on the bubble for playoffs. Dorion took that and made it one of the worst in the league while lying through his teeth that it will be better. That's what irks me the most.

The team was pretty bad

The only player he lost going into last yr was Methot and Methot has barely played the last 2 years

Phaneuf fell off badly, Burrows went from being an okay bottom 6er to hot garbage, lots of guys had bad years (especially Karl based on what we could generally expect from him), goaltending was terrible. We got rid of 2 top players this season but even if we hadn't I doubt we would be even close to the playoffs. Maybe we have a few more points

Short of spending to the cap I don't think there was anything that would have gotten us to the playoffs this yr or last other than magic like guys not aging or Karlsson not being impacted by injury
 

harrisb

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Oct 6, 2009
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The team was pretty bad

The only player he lost going into last yr was Methot and Methot has barely played the last 2 years

Phaneuf fell off badly, Burrows went from being an okay bottom 6er to hot garbage, lots of guys had bad years (especially Karl based on what we could generally expect from him), goaltending was terrible. We got rid of 2 top players this season but even if we hadn't I doubt we would be even close to the playoffs. Maybe we have a few more points

Short of spending to the cap I don't think there was anything that would have gotten us to the playoffs this yr or last other than magic like guys not aging or Karlsson not being impacted by injury
We never replaced Mac either. So we lost 2 top 4 dmen, a top 6 forward and didn’t replace any of them. That’s not good mgmt
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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We never replaced Mac either. So we lost 2 top 4 dmen, a top 6 forward and didn’t replace any of them. That’s not good mgmt

lol no one is saying we've had good management

Just Muckler was worse

Mac barely played with us the 2 years before anyways... as I said, it would have been very hard to be a bubble team without spending more $

Even if we take back the Zib trade, the Hoffman trade, the Karl trade, we're still not a bubble team

Dorions biggest mistake by far was not realizing it and trading our 1st. I love Duchene but we'd be in such a better position if we just dealt Turris for the Nashville package
 

Karl Prime

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Feb 13, 2017
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lol no one is saying we've had good management

Just Muckler was worse

Mac barely played with us the 2 years before anyways... as I said, it would have been very hard to be a bubble team without spending more $

Even if we take back the Zib trade, the Hoffman trade, the Karl trade, we're still not a bubble team

Dorions biggest mistake by far was not realizing it and trading our 1st. I love Duchene but we'd be in such a better position if we just dealt Turris for the Nashville package

I'd say the team would be a lot better off if they still had Karlsson, Hoffman, and Zibanejad. They're a bubble team with those three.
 
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The Devilish Buffoon

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I'd say the team would be a lot better off if they still had Karlsson, Hoffman, and Zibanejad. They're a bubble team with those three.

You think Zib would have made us a bubble team last year? I dont. We'd be better both yrs but wouldnt make the playoffs

Too many crappy players and the goaltendings been average at best over the last 2 years
 

Sensinitis

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Aug 5, 2012
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Trading Smith will win Dorion some points with me. I also feel like Muckler was worse but like Bonkie said this deadline will decide that for sure.
 

Sens

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Jan 7, 2016
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I see what you mean but Muckler chipped away at a cup contending team year after year while trading picks and prospects for completely marginal players. He made a Burrows for Dahlen type deal every year. He was a terrible drafter to the point that it hurt us for 10+ years after he was fired and he destroyed our rep with FAs

Dorion made a bad team worse , Muckler took a perennial contender and slammed the window shut

Hopefully Dorion gets some guys signed and trades the others for good returns so that a tie-breaker isnt needed

I’d argue that Muckler was a finisher... sane type of GM that is Jim Rutherford or Brian Burke

And if not for the lockout and the olympics the following year... Muckler would have had us two cups (Hasek would have been healthy (06) and a year younger (05) )
 
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Artanis

Registered User
Dec 1, 2011
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Ottawa
I'm personally frustrated as a fan because this season is essentially useless. Yeah, we get to see what we have in some younger prospects, but other than that.. What's the point?
It's nice to see how well Stone/Duchene/Chabot/Thachuk/White are playing, but I have NO faith in the GM to even be able to resign these players (or make a half decent trade at that point).
He constantly lies to the fans about the direction of the team, and what to expect.. So i'm kind of at a loss for words. :'(
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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I'm waiting on the usual suspects to arrive in here to defend ownership/management, but then you see the stats and realize there's nothing left to defend. This is a terrible team, with terrible coaching, terrible management and a terrible owner.

This is typically the time of year where I focus entirely on hockey (right on cue, thanks to my terrible football teams) and I just don't care about the Senators. Apathy has kicked in hard this year, much more than I ever thought possible. Thanks Eugene and thanks Pierre, you've killed my first love.
 

Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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I’d argue that Muckler was a finisher... sane type of GM that is Jim Rutherford or Brian Burke

And if not for the lockout and the olympics the following year... Muckler would have had us two cups (Hasek would have been healthy (06) and a year younger (05) )
Muckler was not a builder.

As per Wiki:

Melnyk retained Muckler and the entire Senators staff. Muckler fired head coach Martin after a disappointing loss in the 2004 playoffs and he hired Bryan Murray, the general manager of the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim as head coach. Muckler held the post until June 2007, when, fresh off of an appearance in the 2007 Stanley Cup Final, owner Eugene Melnyk chose Murray to become general manager, and Muckler refused to accept another post in the organization. During each season of Muckler's management, the club was a playoff team and Muckler made trades of Senators prospects for NHL veterans in attempts to win the championship.
 
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hawthy

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Mar 31, 2010
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Ottawa
Having not necessarily lived through all of the notoriously bad ownership/management/dysfunctional eras through the decades across the major North American sports leagues - but having read about many of them - ours, while not necessarily THE worst, would make the Sportscentre Top-10 (if they did one). I was mocked by someone on here when I commented that the Senators were one moderately negative story away from being mentioned in that vain, then the next day happened when the news of the Karlsson-Hoffman fiasco broke....then the rest of the year happened....lol.....and I haven't seen that poster since.
 

Stylizer1

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Muckler was not a builder.

As per Wiki:

Melnyk retained Muckler and the entire Senators staff. Muckler fired head coach Martin after a disappointing loss in the 2004 playoffs and he hired Bryan Murray, the general manager of the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim as head coach. Muckler held the post until June 2007, when, fresh off of an appearance in the 2007 Stanley Cup Final, owner Eugene Melnyk chose Murray to become general manager, and Muckler refused to accept another post in the organization. During each season of Muckler's management, the club was a playoff team and Muckler made trades of Senators prospects for NHL veterans in attempts to win the championship.

Murray to Melnyk: "I built the team we just lost the Stanley Cup too. Make me the GM and I can do the same thing here."
 

Joeyjoejoe

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
6,138
8,650
Yeah our management sucks, but it's our players playing, and most of them are useless. Might be a product of "the system". But at this point "the system" obviously doesn't work. Fire Boucher, and get some players with some heart on this team. I'm so over watching tyke like timidness in these supposed NHL players. There was a point last game, maybe the game before where the opposing player had the puck and 3 of our players overskated the player as he stood still with the puck for like 5 seconds. Too reluctant and soft to get in the dirty areas and play with some grit, we're probably the least intimidating team in the league.

It's almost as if players and coaches are brought in by management.
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
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I'm waiting on the usual suspects to arrive in here to defend ownership/management, but then you see the stats and realize there's nothing left to defend. This is a terrible team, with terrible coaching, terrible management and a terrible owner.

This is typically the time of year where I focus entirely on hockey (right on cue, thanks to my terrible football teams) and I just don't care about the Senators. Apathy has kicked in hard this year, much more than I ever thought possible. Thanks Eugene and thanks Pierre, you've killed my first love.

Eagles fan here. The management of the Eagles vs. the Sens is night and day. It’s nice to at least have one favorite team that always tries to field a good team and their goal is to win championships whether they accomplish that goal or not.
 

Karl Prime

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
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You think Zib would have made us a bubble team last year? I dont. We'd be better both yrs but wouldnt make the playoffs

Too many crappy players and the goaltendings been average at best over the last 2 years

Last year no. But this season with an in-form tilt-the-ice Karlsson? Yeah I think the team would be a bubble team this year.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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Dec 24, 2018
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I’d argue that Muckler was a finisher... sane type of GM that is Jim Rutherford or Brian Burke

And if not for the lockout and the olympics the following year... Muckler would have had us two cups (Hasek would have been healthy (06) and a year younger (05) )

Muckler was supposed to be a finisher, thats my whole point.

Instead he lost Chara + Havlat in the same offseason while adding Corvo, Preissing and Gerber. Traded high picks and top prospects for Arnason, Saprykin and Bondra.

He was bad at everything, not a single redeeming quality. He completed the Yashin trade (oops, no he didnt!) but beyond that he accomplished nothing
 
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stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
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Muckler was supposed to be a finisher, thats my whole point.

Instead he lost Chara + Havlat in the same offseason while adding Corvo, Preissing and Gerber. Traded high picks and top prospects for Arnason, Saprykin and Bondra.

He was bad at everything, not a single redeeming quality. He completed the Yashin trade but beyond that he accomplished nothing

That was actually Marshall Johnston, so there's nothing really redeeming about Mucker's tenure here (other than signing Hasek I guess, but that blew up).
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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East Coast
Muckler was supposed to be a finisher, thats my whole point.

Instead he lost Chara + Havlat in the same offseason while adding Corvo, Preissing and Gerber. Traded high picks and top prospects for Arnason, Saprykin and Bondra.

He was bad at everything, not a single redeeming quality. He completed the Yashin trade but beyond that he accomplished nothing
We lost Chara and Havlat not due to the team put on the ice due to Muckler, but because we were so good we had too many players to fit under the cap.

Redden over Chara was a big mistake, but Chara wasn't signing here after the Hossa trade.

Havlat was a cap causality, and it sucked big time.

The problem with Muckler was he wouldn't give up his draft picks or prospects to put us over the top. I remember everyone was dying for Olli Jokinen for 2 or 3 trade deadlines.

Muckler never traded his 1st round picks in 5 years, and traded his 2nd's 3 times as GM and as a result we never got the big additions like Jokinen. He wouldn't trade his young guys like Vermette, Eaves, etc..

Dorion on the other hand in 2.5 years, has traded his 1st round pick 2 times, and has traded his 2nd 2 times. He got his big name in Duchene, but that doesn't seem to be a lasting relationship. Zibanejad was a young high potential guy traded along with a 2nd for a cost controlled player, who was later traded for a prospect and a pick.

Dorion isn't afraid to make moves, but has bad results in them.

Muckler was afraid to make moves, and was never able to add a guy to put the team over the hump.

They would both be much better in each other's position, as Dorion has operated this team as though it was the best in the league with regards to giving up assets, while Muckler treated it as though it was a rebuilding team with regards to assets.
 
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The Devilish Buffoon

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That was actually Marshall Johnston, so there's nothing really redeeming about Mucker's tenure here (other than signing Hasek I guess, but that blew up).

thats what I thought and you are right. NHLtradetracker.com lied to me

Good Muckler moves -
Gleason for Smolinski
Kaigorodov for Comrie
Signing Hasek
Corvo kinda

The bad moves list is just depressing lol
 

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