OT: Was Today the Darkest Day in Sharks History?

[Alwalys]

Demers took more risks because his puck skills and vision are better than Vlasic that he is afforded that privilege. Vlasic rarely made any up passes because he either can't or won't. Either way, it's limiting to his skill set that it is that way. Vlasic is every bit as good as either Braun or Demers at making the release passes that are short and fairly conservative. But that's not an offensive catalyst and it isn't really him that is making the play in that scenario regarding neutral zone advancement and zone entries. There's a reason why Braun and Demers had far more takeaways than Vlasic and puck skills is a big part of that.

This all boils down to situation. Vlasic faced top comp while Demers faced bottom-tier comp as a 3rd pairing D. Not only is the forecheck Vlasic faced better, the consequences of a turnover were much greater. Vlasic made the first pass well regularly, far more regularly than Demers.

Same with takeaways, that's the result of facing lesser comp while Vlasic regularly faced the best possession players in the league.

And let's be real here. Vlasic is elite defensively. That's where his elite status ends and you don't necessarily have to be the best at puck skills to get to that level. He had a good year with his puck play this year but he was not at any point the best PMD on this team.

As the saying goes, being good at defense involves not playing much of it. Winning pucks and getting them out and back up ice is the model of good defense in the modern NHL, the slow stay-at-home D is no longer valid.

He was in fact the best PMD overall this season which highlights both Dan Boyle's decline and the reason his loss caused offensive difficulties. Make no mistake, his consistent, efficient play was a big part of our elite 5-on-5 offense this year. It's easy to miss that when one has watched Boyle do his thing for years, but it's important to understand it as it is the answer to what happened to the team.

People who fixate on PMDs as flashy skaters and long stretch-passers are left scratching their heads about intangible concepts like heart and killer instinct, while those of us who realized our system didn't hinge on that kind of puck movement anymore (again in response to Boyle's decline) know exactly what happened.

The team was clearly starting to drop the style of play that brought success in games 1-3. That's what I mean by stagnating regardless of Niemi ******** the bed.

They didn't "drop" the style of play, 1) they didn't get the same puck luck, 2) they didn't have the matchups, and 3) the Kings changed their lines to address their ineffective alignment in games 1-2. Game 3 does not belong in the same basket as games 1-2, they actually were outpossessed in game 3 by the largest margin of the series and were lucky to win it. The more accurate result would probably have been losing game 3 and winning game 4.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This all boils down to situation. Vlasic faced top comp while Demers faced bottom-tier comp as a 3rd pairing D. Not only is the forecheck Vlasic faced better, the consequences of a turnover were much greater. Vlasic made the first pass well regularly, far more regularly than Demers.

Same with takeaways, that's the result of facing lesser comp while Vlasic regularly faced the best possession players in the league.



As the saying goes, being good at defense involves not playing much of it. Winning pucks and getting them out and back up ice is the model of good defense in the modern NHL, the slow stay-at-home D is no longer valid.

He was in fact the best PMD overall this season which highlights both Dan Boyle's decline and the reason his loss caused offensive difficulties. Make no mistake, his consistent, efficient play was a big part of our elite 5-on-5 offense this year. It's easy to miss that when one has watched Boyle do his thing for years, but it's important to understand it as it is the answer to what happened to the team.

People who fixate on PMDs as flashy skaters and long stretch-passers are left scratching their heads about intangible concepts like heart and killer instinct, while those of us who realized our system didn't hinge on that kind of puck movement anymore (again in response to Boyle's decline) know exactly what happened.

To answer your first part, if he's not doing it due to the competition, he's still not doing it and thus isn't what you say he is. That's really the point. A PMD does more than make the safe and simple pass in the d-zone especially when you want to try and credit him as a catalyst for offensive play.

Your second part provides no real evidence to support him being the best PMD on the team. Making simple efficient passes is one thing but being the best PMD involves a lot more than you're putting into it. You want to talk about his competition but look who he is playing with and you can see why his even strength numbers were as good as they were. It wasn't just him that made his numbers great. You want to talk about heart and killer instinct then you're left without much room for argument because those are just cliches and they don't lead to a real discussion about effectiveness. You either are or you're not in whatever aspect you want to talk about. To say the system didn't hinge on puck movement from the d-men beyond simple conservative passes in the d-zone is very disingenuous. It involved a lot more than that and the drop-off because they weren't getting that after a while is part of why they lost to LA...neutral zone got clogged up.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

this is kind of a glass half full / empty question depending on ones perspective with all due respect. For me i look at it as the start of the next sharks team, the rebuild is 2 or 3 years overdue to start as they did not want to effect ticket sales, who says NHL teams are not all about the money.

I will miss Drew, lets see what another can do before we all start jumping off a cliff. And lets see what our GM can do to rebuild and ice a competitive team.

 

[weastern bias]

He turned the corner because he was pissed off that he got traded and was afforded the opportunity to start and it clicked for him. That wasn't going to happen in San Jose.

Bolded is narrative

As for the opportunity bit, agreed, but this is a hypothetical, after all

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Bolded is narrative

As for the opportunity bit, agreed, but this is a hypothetical, after all

It's just another way to say he was motivated which he was.

 

[weastern bias]

Kipper was clearly motivated, and that's how he became the best goalie in the NHL at one point

All I mean is there's no reason he couldn't have been just as great here, on better teams, had he been afforded the opportunity

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kipper was clearly motivated, and that's how he became the best goalie in the NHL at one point

All I mean is there's no reason he couldn't have been just as great here, on better teams, had he been afforded the opportunity

Except there is a reason...he was 3rd on the depth chart due to his play the season before and the preseason leading up to the trade.

 

[rangerssharks414]

I wouldn't say it's even in the top five off the top of my head in terms of "darkest days", but it wasn't a day to remember, that's for sure.

 

[weastern bias]

Except there is a reason...he was 3rd on the depth chart due to his play the season before and the preseason leading up to the trade.

You're pointing out why he didn't have an opportunity, the entire caveat of my hypothetical

We're not even disagreeing anymore, it's just verbage

 

[landshark]

October 6th 2007

did i win?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're pointing out why he didn't have an opportunity, the entire caveat of my hypothetical

We're not even disagreeing anymore, it's just verbage

Yes we are still disagreeing because your hypothetical makes no sense given the context. How is someone that is not going to be given an opportunity here going to take us to the Cup? If we kept Kipper over Nabby, Toskala was our starter. And none of that even matters because none of it means we win the Cup if that turns out differently. There are an infinite amount of possibilities that would have to be factored in to the point where you just can't say that w/o it being nothing but bravado.