was hockey talent better in the 1970s-1990s or 2000-2020?

[The Panther]

As a lifelong Canuck fan I have to say that I respectfully hate you for reminding us of this.

Are you the former producer of CBC's HNIC that would constantly show Stan Smyl not scoring on Mike Vernon when he stacked his pads?

Hey, I was cheering for the Canucks in this series! (I'm just re-watching a bit of this game now... Damn, it's exciting! Too bad it ended on a kicked-in goal....)

 

[sr edler]

New players are always better than old one. Gordie Howe would be Jay McClement today, a 4th line PK specialist. Or perhaps a face-off specialist with physicality he wouldn't even be allowed to use because suspensions. Maurice Richard would be Brandon Pirri with a 22-2-24 stat line in his best year. Bobby Orr would flame out faster than Dion Phaneuf. Jean Béliveau would have a Tanner Glass career, if lucky.

 

[SotasicA]

Mike Gartner and Russ Courtnall are faster than anybody in the league today.

Al Iafrate could shoot faster than anybody today.

With improved equipment.

 

[sdf]

New players are always better than old one. Gordie Howe would be Jay McClement today, a 4th line PK specialist. Or perhaps a face-off specialist with physicality he wouldn't even be allowed to use because suspensions. Maurice Richard would be Brandon Pirri with a 22-2-24 stat line in his best year. Bobby Orr would flame out faster than Dion Phaneuf. Jean Béliveau would have a Tanner Glass career, if lucky.

Isn't the problem of Orr was his injurees? So if he could stay healthy today why he would flame out fast?

 

[sr edler]

So if he could stay healthy today why he would flame out fast?

Because he's old. He played hockey around when Marie Antoinette was the hottest chick in town.

 

[apollo18]

i feel like a lot of these so called stars back in the 70s 80s arent really stars if you compare them to competition.
sure they were good players but i dont think they are as good as everyone says, the players they were playing against were basically house league garbage who only knew how to hit and fight


the reason mcdavid doesnt stand out as much as gretzky is solely because the supporting cast's these days are so good, they actually know how to play hockey.

if you put mcdavid back in the day he would guaranteed stand out more then gretzky.

*i know some butt hurt fans are gonna cry *

gRetZkY iS ThE bEsT evEr

 

[North Cole]

Football players ran around 5-6 km a game up until maybe 1975. The majority today run at least 10,5 km a game and the very top do 13 km a game. The amount of sprints have gone up immensely. The training and its methods have been revolutionized. The ball was a disaster back when Di Stefano, Puskás and Pelé dominated world football. The pitches were horrendous. The game was violent compared to today and shortened players careers. Not everyone could turn professional and had part-time jobs. Maradona didn't have the protection of Messi and Ronaldo.

You simply can't compare football in the 1950's, 1960's or 1970's to what it is today.

OT, KP are hella underrated btw, don't think they released even an average tune, everything was gold.

 

[Minar]

i feel like a lot of these so called stars back in the 70s 80s arent really stars if you compare them to competition.
sure they were good players but i dont think they are as good as everyone says, the players they were playing against were basically house league garbage who only knew how to hit and fight


the reason mcdavid doesnt stand out as much as gretzky is solely because the supporting cast's these days are so good, they actually know how to play hockey.

if you put mcdavid back in the day he would guaranteed stand out more then gretzky.

*i know some butt hurt fans are gonna cry *

gRetZkY iS ThE bEsT evEr

There is so much wrong with this post. First of all the players in the 80s and 90s weren't garbage. There were plenty of good player and great players. Perhaps the 3rd and 4th lines were lines designed to be more physical and therefore weren't as skilled as those lines today.

But let's say what your saying is true and that the players in the league were garbage. Even if that were true all the players would have been playing against the same garbage players as Gretzky. And they were not getting 150 - 200 pts a season. They were not winning 10 art rosses in a row. They were not winning 9 harts in a row. They were not getting 120 assists a season. Only Gretzky did this and for a few fragmented period Lemieux was up there with him. All the players played against those SAME players yet only Gretzky (and at times Lemieux) was doing these things. They were outliers. And if they played today they would be outliers. Head and shoulders above the rest in terms of goals and points year after year. Not just one or two years, but year after year. Not outscoring the next guy by 5 or 20 pts like mcdavid. Not getting outscored by their own teammates like McDavid and Crosby. Not winng the art Ross on e or twice like crosby. Gretzky dominated by wide margins for 10 yrs playing against the same quality of players as everyone else. If he played today with today's advantaged he would still dominate. If mcdavid went back to the 80s he would be a top tier player like Yzerman or messier but not like a Gretzky because he just does not stand out to that degree.

If what your saying is true. That Gretzky wasn't as good as it seems back than because the competition wasn't as good. That would make sense if they're were a variety of players having anomaly like seasons. Say one year in 1985 Stastny got 200 pts. And than the next year maybe Savard had 200. Nope. It was only Gretzky that was doing this. In 1985 he had 215 pts and the the next guy Mario had 141. All the other top players had around the same amount of pts. 100 pts to 140. Than there is a huge gap, then Gretzky. And it wasn't just like that for 1 year. It happened year after year. We haven't seen offensive talent like that the years before or since.

 

[Passchendaele]

i feel like a lot of these so called stars back in the 70s 80s arent really stars if you compare them to competition.
sure they were good players but i dont think they are as good as everyone says, the players they were playing against were basically house league garbage who only knew how to hit and fight


the reason mcdavid doesnt stand out as much as gretzky is solely because the supporting cast's these days are so good, they actually know how to play hockey.

if you put mcdavid back in the day he would guaranteed stand out more then gretzky.

*i know some butt hurt fans are gonna cry *

gRetZkY iS ThE bEsT evEr

McDavid right now, is not even standing out as the best player on his own team.

With Gretzky or Lemieux, that'd be unthinkable.

 

[Ugene Magic]

McDavid right now, is not even standing out as the best player on his own team.

With Gretzky or Lemieux, that'd be unthinkable.

Make every player play with a straight stick. I think things drop off a good bit, except those few who can and have.

I agree about a lot of stuff in here, and it is harder to determine certain aspects, but natural skill without all the future progress in equipment, having guys legally be able to maul you certain players could play in any era. The select few.

Plus, people talk about the different fitness levels from now 'til back in the past, certain players were fitness freaks even back then. Some drew from their natural gifted talents and didn't workout.

But overall, the skill to play with a straight stick probably eliminates half the field in todays game considering the speed at which they play now. Half the league would probably look like the Bad News Bears.

 

[Sentinel]

i feel like a lot of these so called stars back in the 70s 80s arent really stars if you compare them to competition.
sure they were good players but i dont think they are as good as everyone says, the players they were playing against were basically house league garbage who only knew how to hit and fight


the reason mcdavid doesnt stand out as much as gretzky is solely because the supporting cast's these days are so good, they actually know how to play hockey.

if you put mcdavid back in the day he would guaranteed stand out more then gretzky.

*i know some butt hurt fans are gonna cry *

gRetZkY iS ThE bEsT evEr

I feel like the Earth is flat. I just know it. It makes sense to me. I mean: how can we live on sphere?

 

[Legionnaire]

I feel like the Earth is flat. I just know it. It makes sense to me. I mean: how can we live on sphere?

Good God, man! You're going to hurt their feelings with posts like those! Then how are you going to sleep knowing you have that blood on your hands!?!?

 

[tarheelhockey]

New players are always better than old one. Gordie Howe would be Jay McClement today, a 4th line PK specialist. Or perhaps a face-off specialist with physicality he wouldn't even be allowed to use because suspensions. Maurice Richard would be Brandon Pirri with a 22-2-24 stat line in his best year. Bobby Orr would flame out faster than Dion Phaneuf. Jean Béliveau would have a Tanner Glass career, if lucky.

This is true, and is the main reason that Hughes is better than Crosby.

 

[4thline]

Stars were more starrish, and accounting for equipment would standout even now.

But magically given modern equipment and time to get used to it 80's teams would get absolutely mauled by current teams until they completely relearned the game. Increases in straight away speed/ strength may be over stated/ non-existent, but the tempo, tactics, attention to detail, and "small space" skating all the way to the bottom of the lineup have huge gaps.

 

[Sentinel]

Good God, man! You're going to hurt their feelings with posts like those! Then how are you going to sleep knowing you have that blood on your hands!?!?

Like a baby. Even better: like Bellatrix Kiddo after educating Bill on the virtues of the Five Touch Exploding Heart technique.

 

[Sentinel]

Stars were more starrish, and accounting for equipment would standout even now.

But magically given modern equipment and time to get used to it 80's teams would get absolutely mauled by current teams until they completely relearned the game. Increases in straight away speed/ strength may be over stated/ non-existent, but the tempo, tactics, attention to detail, and "small space" skating all the way to the bottom of the lineup have huge gaps.

Do you seriously believe Messier, Clarke, and Potvin would be mauled by ANYBODY? THEY would be doing the mauling. McDavid and Draisaitl would be crying for their moms.

 

[Jacksonbobson]

Are you kidding?

If Chara could chop down opponents like Moose Dupont did for the Flyers in Bobby Clarke's days Gretzky would be in big trouble.

I think the hypothetical the original guys used wants us to simply look at counting stats and forget reality.

Sure Gretzky and Mario would be a problem but the 2000's team could handle most of the lineup quite easily as well.

It's such a "what's if" that it almost has zero meaning.

Chara wouldn't last very long in the league if he attempted to target stars like Gretzky. Also Gretzky played Chara and actually did quite well against him and that was when he was an old man.

I don't know how you figure that the 2000's team would handle guys like Orr,Coffey Esposito,Trottier, Bossy, Jagr quite easily..

 

[4thline]

Do you seriously believe Messier, Clarke, and Potvin would be mauled by ANYBODY? THEY would be doing the mauling. McDavid and Draisaitl would be crying for their moms.

Mauled might not have been the right word, implies physicality for some. I'm talking in a purely hockey sense. The games would not be close.

You can romanticize past players rugged warrior nature, but they wouldn't be ready for the complete removal of time/space and and the pace modern teams play at.

 

[Midnight Judges]

McDavid right now, is not even standing out as the best player on his own team.

With Gretzky or Lemieux, that'd be unthinkable.

No it isn't. What if they were on the same team? What if Bobby Orr was still healthy at age 30 and was on Gretzky's team when he was a rookie?

McDavid and Draisaitl are the two best players in the world right now.

 

[Passchendaele]

No it isn't. What if they were on the same team? What if Bobby Orr was still healthy at age 30 and was on Gretzky's team when he was a rookie?

McDavid and Draisaitl are the two best players in the world right now.

I hope you are not making the assertion that McDavid and Draisaitl are on the level of Gretzky/Lemieux.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I hope you are not making the assertion that McDavid and Draisaitl are on the level of Gretzky/Lemieux.

I think it's more than coincidental that the biggest outlier players of all time (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux) all played in a watered down era with a fraction of the talent pool that exists today.

 

[Passchendaele]

I think it's more than coincidental that the biggest outlier players of all time (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux) all played in a watered down era with a fraction of the talent pool that exists today.

Is that a joke?

Lemieux made the NHL his ***** at age 35, after being out of pro hockey for three years.

And that was with all the best Euro players in the world (Jagr, Selanne, Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Sundin, etc) around.

Oh, yeah, these guys were also all around when he won the Art Ross despite missing 24 games.

 

[Minar]

I think it's more than coincidental that the biggest outlier players of all time (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux) all played in a watered down era with a fraction of the talent pool that exists today.

All the other players played against the same so called watered down league. None of them were putting up 200 pts. In fact there was a huge gap btw Gretzky, Lemieux than the rest. Like a 50 pt gap or more! This is not the result if a watered down league but a result of these 2 players being miles away in talent and ability from everyone else.

 

[Steve]

IMO

Players are better today than they were during the 70-90's from top to bottom. Equipment, diet, training and physical stature has improved the athlete overall

70-90's had a few players that were so far ahead of their peer set that it makes this time frame nostalgic for fans. Gretzky, Lemiuex, and Orr made this time frame of hockey.

 

[shtorm2005]

I think 2-way forwards would suit much better in modern era than other offensive beasts. Of course, players like Lemieux and Gretzky will score a bunch, but GA would be much higher with these players. IMO Russian Five Detroit team would dominate today by a mile.