was hockey talent better in the 1970s-1990s or 2000-2020?

[Sentinel]

Team Millennial would sweep the series 4-0.

Oh, I get it: you don't know the names of the people I provided. You literally have no idea who Hull, Esposito, Trottier, and Bourque were, do you?

 

[Knave]

Oh, I get it: you don't know the names of the people I provided. You literally have no idea who Hull, Esposito, Trottier, and Bourque were, do you?

I'm saying all the players you listed played in an era where the league quadrupled in size. The pool of hockey players didn't quadruple in size. Talent, ability, skill and good coaching didn't quadruple in size.

It's easy to stand out when you expand the pool you are being compared to which is what your entire first team benefited from.

 

[Sentinel]

I'm saying all the players you listed played in an era where the league quadrupled in size. The pool of hockey players didn't quadruple in size. Talent, ability, skill and good coaching didn't quadruple in size.

It's easy to stand out when you expand the pool you are being compared to which is what your entire first team benefited from.

And I am saying you're wrong. 90s relics like Jagr, Sakic, and Selanne DOMINATED post-lockout league. And all the people I listed we just as good or better (99, 66, 4, 33).

 

[eviohh26]

Super stars i donno. Average player id like to think is alot better nowadays

 

[Knave]

And I am saying you're wrong. 90s relics like Jagr, Sakic, and Selanne DOMINATED post-lockout league. And all the people I listed we just as good or better (99, 66, 4, 33).

They dominated one year and then fell off a massive cliff as coaches and everyone was adjusting to a new league.

 

[Stephen]

With this kind of thinking you would think that players who played in the 90s wouldn't have been able to keep up in the 2000s. But players like Jagr, Lemieux and others even as older players did very well in the 2000s against these 'superior athletes'
Jagr even up until 2016.

Many of the average to below average players couldn't keep up. That's why every time there was a work stoppage so many players got replaced by a fresh crop of athletes, especially after 2004-05.

 

[Stephen]

With this kind of thinking you would think that players who played in the 90s wouldn't have been able to keep up in the 2000s. But players like Jagr, Lemieux and others even as older players did very well in the 2000s against these 'superior athletes'
Jagr even up until 2016.

Many of the average to below average players couldn't keep up. That's why every time there was a work stoppage so many players got replaced by a fresh crop of athletes, especially after 2004-05. The very special talents are always... very special.

 

[PG Canuck]

Present day and it’s not even remotely close. We were doing GDT’s of old games on HFNucks and it’s unbelievable how much of a lack of skill there was. Players like Ronning/Bure stood out in those games and they would’ve thrives under these circumstances.

The passing back even in the early 90’s is hilariously choppy.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Present day and it’s not even remotely close. We were doing GDT’s of old games on HFNucks and it’s unbelievable how much of a lack of skill there was. Players like Ronning/Bure stood out in those games and they would’ve thrives under these circumstances.

The passing back even in the early 90’s is hilariously choppy.

Maybe. Don't forget that a long shift in the 80s was 2 minutes; a long shift today is 45 seconds. There was far less parity; this makes certain games look more lopsided. Also, while I would agree that while today's depth players have more technical skill their creativity/decision-making skills are at a lesser level. Today's game puts a premium on industrious, hard-skill players who can play a system to a tee and not make mistakes.

 

[Sentinel]

They dominated one year and then fell off a massive cliff as coaches and everyone was adjusting to a new league.

Thank you for confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.

Teemu Selanne

2005-06 (36 y.o.): 40 G, 90 Pts
2006-07 (37 y.o.): 48 G, 94 Pts
2010-11 (41 y.o.): 31 G, 80 Pts
2011-12 (42 y.o.): 26 G, 66 Pts

In 2014 he was voted Best Player in the Olympic Games tournament.

Jaromir Jagr

2005-06 (34 y.o.): 54 G, 123 Pts
2006-07 (35 y.o.): 96 Pts
2007-08 (36 y.o.): 71 Pts
2013-14 (42 y.o.): 67 Pts
2015-16 (44 y.o.): 66 Pts

Some "massive cliff"

 

[Sentinel]

Present day and it’s not even remotely close. We were doing GDT’s of old games on HFNucks and it’s unbelievable how much of a lack of skill there was. Players like Ronning/Bure stood out in those games and they would’ve thrives under these circumstances.

The passing back even in the early 90’s is hilariously choppy.

Just in case you missed it:

70s-80s

Lemieux-Gretzky-Hull
Esposito-Trottier-Bossy
Mikhailov-Messier-Kharlamov
Yzerman-Clarke-Makarov
Lafleur

Orr-Potvin
Robinson-Coffey
Fetisov-Bourque

Tretiak
Dryden (or young Roy)

vs.

2000-10s

Ovechkin-Crosby-Kane
Panarin-Malkin-Kucherov
Draisaitl-McDavid-Toews
Iginla-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
MacKinnon (or Thornton, or Forsberg, depending how far back you want to go)

Lidstrom-Keith
Doughty-Karlsson
Chara-Weber

Price
Lundquist

Who wins??

 

[Knave]

Thank you for confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.

Teemu Selanne

2005-06 (36 y.o.): 40 G, 90 Pts
2006-07 (37 y.o.): 48 G, 94 Pts
2010-11 (41 y.o.): 31 G, 80 Pts
2011-12 (42 y.o.): 26 G, 66 Pts

In 2014 he was voted Best Player in the Olympic Games tournament.

Jaromir Jagr

2005-06 (34 y.o.): 54 G, 123 Pts
2006-07 (35 y.o.): 96 Pts
2007-08 (36 y.o.): 71 Pts
2013-14 (42 y.o.): 67 Pts
2015-16 (44 y.o.): 66 Pts

Some "massive cliff"

I would say dropping nearly 30 points a year is a pretty significant drop

 

[Sentinel]

I would say dropping nearly 30 points a year is a pretty significant drop

25, not 30.
And I would say 66 points as a 42 and a 44 y.o. is pretty remarkable.

 

[Bondurant]

Incomparable. Hockey isn't like basketball or soccer where generations can simply be compared.

The sport has evolved tremendously between decades for the past 50 years. Between rule changes and equipment upgrades and training/coaching methodologies it's simply impossible. Hockey is also one of the most luck based sports so that throws another wrench into things.

If we're talking from a purely objective standpoint modern hockey players are much better than their historical counterparts, due in no small part to technological advancements that they're privy to

You can't compare soccer the same way either. Training and tactics have evolved. Look into the impact Brazil or Rinus Michels had on the game if you believe soccer hasn't changed.

 

[10Ducky10]

The best hockey players of any of those eras would've been stars in any era...
Does someone want to prove to me that Jean Beliveau couldn't play in any era?
McDavid? The Rocket? Gretzky? Lemieux? Sid? Ovi? Lafleur? Jagr? Howe? Orr? Kane? Kucherov? Tretiak? Dryden? Roy? Brodeur? Kharlamov? Bossy? Malkin? Price? Datsyuk? Doughty?

Which era would any one of these players not have been a star. Every era produces great players. You can't compare different eras like that.
I've been lucky enough to have been able to watch every one of the players I've named but The Rocket.

 

[psycat]

Jagr at his best was at least as good (offensively) as anyone playing today. Including prime Crosby.

Lemieux was even better than Jagr, and it's not even debatable.

Prime Lemieux reaches around ~60 goals, ~90 assists and ~150 points in 2019-20.

Honestly with the way scoring is up I think those numbers are a bit low, granted it would kinda depend on pp opportunities+ice time but if he got to play "McDavid minutes" I could easily see 170+ during this season. Adding to that I would say Jagr was more offensively gifted than any player currently in the league.

OT: 1970:s-1990s not close. That said it's probably the strongest era of all time with the two best offensive forwards of all time(AINEC) and todays stars would stack up decent enough vs teams of most other eras. 1970-1990s is the anomaly not the norm.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

4th liners would be stars in the 70s and 80s.

 

[Jacksonbobson]

I feel like it depends on what rules are being used.

The physical play of the old days would be too much to handle for this current generation.

The speed of today may cause some problems for the old generation if they can't throw them around without getting a penalty.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think there might be more talent these days in the NHL than back then, but it’s more spread out.

The cup winning teams these days are not as good as they were back then. You used to see some teams with an absurd amount of talent, that doesn’t happen as much anymore.

 

[Bluesguru]

I've come to believe that talent of star players doesn't change all that much between eras. But the limit to where we can take it is certainly constantly being pushed.

That's right, all the eras and the top stars interconnect with the next wave/era of new talent. It's like that in all sports.

A better question is, what era of hockey do you enjoy watching more. A case can be made for any era.

 

[wetcoast]

Present day and it’s not even remotely close. We were doing GDT’s of old games on HFNucks and it’s unbelievable how much of a lack of skill there was. Players like Ronning/Bure stood out in those games and they would’ve thrives under these circumstances.

The passing back even in the early 90’s is hilariously choppy.

It was even worse in the 70's when one year Ron Sedlbauer scored 40 goals and Dennis Kearns scored 60 points in single seasons.

No disrespect to Dennis Kearns as he was an honest player but Ron Sedlbauer wouldn't even last in a scrimmage 20 years later the lack of talent in the 70's with the WHA and rapid expansion and basically no players from the states or Europe had the NHL talent extremely diluted and the play was downright sloppy.

 

[RandV]

And I am saying you're wrong. 90s relics like Jagr, Sakic, and Selanne DOMINATED post-lockout league. And all the people I listed we just as good or better (99, 66, 4, 33).

Just looking at this thread and this post makes a good example of what I'm wondering... since this is covering a 50 year span why are the 90's grouped with the 70's and 80's?

Transitions don't just conveniently align themselves to points at every 10 years, but in general the 70's/80's were still the years of old equipment, wood stick, helmets optional, and 'skinny' standup goalies. The transition period into the modern game with better equipment and bulky butterfly goalies belongs to the 90's.

So of course Jagr/Sakic/Selanne dominated post-lockout league (I'm assuming 2004-05?). They were dominant before and the only change to the game after was a crack down on clutch and grab obstruction. Kind of makes the whole discussion pointless when the original question is flawed like that.

 

[Minar]

EVERYONE WATCH. This game is from 1994 rangers and devils game 7. This is an extremely fast paced, very physical game. Much more physical than today. It has great goaltending, great defense and there is absolutely no room out there to do much. Watch this game. If you think Crosby, Ovi or McDavid or anybody from today's nhl is going to have an easy time if they went back to this game you didnt watch. This is the nhl that 80s stars such Messier (very impressive playoffs) and Gretzky (art Ross) did very well even as older players. I'm sure those players and other stars from that time would have no trouble at all in today's league, in fact the less obstruction and no 2 line pass would benefit them.

 

[Habsfunk]

If you remove Gretzky and Lemieux from the equation, top forward talent is probably equal. The biggest difference is it's harder for today's stars to separate themselves from the pack because depth players are much better. I would say there were more great defensemen and goalies back then, but I'm not really sure why that is.

 

[coolboarder]

I would say that the top talent from 1970's to 1990 were higher when you factor in smaller number of teams, more talent to go around than the 2000 to 2020 due to spread around amongst 32 teams. If you consider the clutch and grabbing that was prevalent and they were able to score goals. If you consider the bottom 6 D that is playing for a basement dweller teams will not even make it to the NHL with 21 teams league and 4th liner on a bottom dweller team will not even make it so therefore the top tier talented players will exploit that in a match-up game. Remember the original 6 and the first expansion team from 1967 to 1970, the Original Six teams that keeps their roster were able to dominate expansion teams which tells me a lot, they were the top-tier players playing for their respective teams and new players who is playing for expansion teams were not able to beat them. If the NHL were to cut back teams to 6 teams, who will make the teams? All of 6 teams will showcase a full of superstars in every line, every D pairing and top tier goaltender. By then, we will be able to compare the original six era. Comparing era is like comparing the apples to oranges. If goaltender is forced to play without a mask, do you think that they will keep their butterfly style today? I doubt it. You will be receiving many stitches in your career if you try to play butterfly style without a mask.