W.Nylander vs Larkin in overall value

[WingsMJN2965]

He's -9 going up against the +20 guy, who led the league in neutral zones takeaways, and higher PPG% than Crosby and McDavid.

...but I know you're pure hate.

Remember that time that Nick Lidstrom was +50 in a single season?

... Wait, Lidstrom never did that, that was Jeff Schultz, who was out of the NHL at the age of 27.

Way to bring up team stats, bud.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

What else should i go on? You said statistically similar and their careers so far isnt close. Nylanders ppg is much higher.

Playing with Matthews, I would hope so.

Nobody's questioning that Larkin had a sophomore slump. If he did that at the age of 27 you may have a beef. He did it at the age of 20. That's not uncommon in player development. With that logic, a similar argument could be made that Draisaitl is more valuable than MacKinnon because up until last year Mackinnon really floundered...

 

[DDRhockey]

Playing with Matthews, I would hope so.

Lol nylander has played on different lines even 4th line and has been consistantly better statistically than larkin so far.

Besides the fabled Matthews hasnt broken 70 points yet and larkin has played with zetterberg.

 

[Fear]

Playing with Matthews, I would hope so.

Nobody's questioning that Larkin had a sophomore slump. If he did that at the age of 27 you may have a beef. He did it at the age of 20. That's not uncommon in player development. With that logic, a similar argument could be made that Draisaitl is more valuable than MacKinnon because up until last year Mackinnon really floundered...

If Draisatl and Mackinnon put up the same points last year, yes you could use that argument.

More like saying McDavid is more valuable than Mackinnon. If you wanted to pick someone to put up 100 points next year, you would pick McDavid cause he's done it 2 years in a row.

If you wanted someone to put up 60+ next year, you'd pick Nylander for the same reason.

 

[newfy]

Lol nylander has played on different lines even 4th line and has been consistantly better statistically than larkin so far.

Besides the fabled Matthews hasnt broken 70 points yet and larkin has played with zetterberg.

Neither have been consistently anything yet because theyre still 21. Larkins rookie year he put up 23 goals, while Nylander wasnt in the league. Larkin transitioned to center and had some really bad luck in his second year, while Nylander had a really solid season. Anyone who watched Larkin last year could see he was comfortable in the middle of the ice now and outproduced Nylander. When youre talking about 19 and 20 year old seasons its a little differen than comaring a guy when theyre 28 or 29.

For a guy whose been consistently better than Larkin so far, Larkin has the highest single season goal total and single season point total in different seasons between the 2 of them. For guys who are 21, its hard to say eiher has been consistently better but especially when one has the highest goal and point totals of the 2, and has made the transition to the more difficult position to play

 

[Pyrophorus]

Remember that time that Nick Lidstrom was +50 in a single season?

... Wait, Lidstrom never did that, that was Jeff Schultz, who was out of the NHL at the age of 27.

Way to bring up team stats, bud.

Then tell me how Larkin is better defensively?
This is the 3rd time I've asked this question, will you as well not answer?
People keep saying he is 2 way-show your work.

 

[tony d]

This is Nylander for me.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Then tell me how Larkin is better defensively?
This is the 3rd time I've asked this question, will you as well not answer?
People keep saying he is 2 way-show your work.

How about you come up with something better than plus minus and you won't get so heavily criticized. And I never said Larkin was better defensively, so maybe you should track down the guy who did.

 

[newfy]

Then tell me how Larkin is better defensively?
This is the 3rd time I've asked this question, will you as well not answer?
People keep saying he is 2 way-show your work.

Trusted and does well on the PK, Nylander is not. Even just playing the center position hes going to have a greater impact defensively, its the nature of the position. Plays some of the tougher competition on Detroit and does better than the rest of the team. I also think the eye test will tell you the most about a players defensive ability, obviously cant be quantified but I'll trust it over a stat like neutral zone takeaways at the end of the day. I trust Larkin to go into a corner, battle for a puck and win that puck battle over Nylander as well.

I think Nylander is pretty solid defensively in a lot of ways for a winger, but I think Larkin is solid as well. The difference is really that your center takes on more responsibility defensively and the fact that Larkin is a very good NHL pker that gives him an edge defensively.

Watching Nylander I think good defensive winger but doesnt do everything perfect (hes not Jere Lehtinen), and these things he doesnt do would be amplified more if he was at center than how he is now on the wing. Larkin plays center and has proven he can handle the defensive responsibilities of the role

 

[Sky04]

Leafs fans still claiming Nylander's a center? Funny.

Larkin easily.

 

[DDRhockey]

Leafs fans still claiming Nylander's a center? Funny.

Larkin easily.

I bet nylander wont ever have a 35p season over 80 games.

 

[Sky04]

I bet nylander wont ever have a 35p season over 80 games.

Nikita Kucherov had an 18 point season, what's that supposed to mean? Nylander will outscore him to? Joe Thornton didn't break Nylander's rookie season until his 4th year, Art Ross coming too?

 

[DDRhockey]

Nikita Kucherov had an 18 point season, what's that supposed to mean? Nylander will outscore him to? Joe Thornton didn't break Nylander's rookie season until his 4th year, Art Ross coming too?

Problem is that larkin has a 40p season also. He is suspect to have some bad seasons.

It is nylander until proven othervise

 

[Sky04]

Problem is that larkin has a 40p season also. He is suspect to have some bad seasons.

It is nylander until proven othervise

Umm yeah, it was already proven last year.

63 points, leading your team in scoring > 61 points sitting 4th in team scoring along with a list of things Larkin is better at.

 

[DDRhockey]

Umm yeah, it was already proven last year.

63 points, leading your team in scoring > 61 points sitting 4th in team scoring along with a list of things Larkin is better at.

As I said. Consistancy >> one season

 

[Territory]

Nylander is a C who is playing wing. On teams without Toronto's C depth he's playing C.

 

[obey86]

Cool, He still wasn't going to be center over Bozak when Bozak has been a top 6 C for years and great on FO. If you have center depth and an abundance of centers one of them will have to shift to the wing.

While it's certainly possible, maybe even probable, that Larkin would never have played center on the Leafs....that doesn't change the fact that Larkin has proven he is a full time NHL center and Nylander hasn't yet.

 

[newfy]

Nylander is a C who is playing wing. On teams without Toronto's C depth he's playing C.

If he was some young, cant miss center prospect he could've played over 50 point Bozak no? Hes going on 4 years now without playing center, never has played it in the NHL,but we're going to keep saying hes one?

Nylander has some weaknesses in his game that make me wonder how good of a center he would be. He has much more of a winger skill set

 

[Territory]

If he was some young, cant miss center prospect he could've played over 50 point Bozak no? Hes going on 4 years now without playing center, never has played it in the NHL,but we're going to keep saying hes one?

Nylander has some weaknesses in his game that make me wonder how good of a center he would be. He has much more of a winger skill set

Why have him play on the 3rd line when they could have him on the 1st line. And he plays C from time to time in the NHL. He almost always takes RH faceoffs too. Matthews takes LH ones.

Just because it makes more sense to play him on the wing doesn't mean he's not capable of playing C. And not every C is a two way beast... There are offensive centres in the league. Nylander is better defensively than Bozak is.

 

[newfy]

Why have him play on the 3rd line when they could have him on the 1st line. And he plays C from time to time in the NHL. He almost always takes RH faceoffs too. Matthews takes LH ones.

Just because it makes more sense to play him on the wing doesn't mean he's not capable of playing C. And not every C is a two way beast... There are offensive centres in the league. Nylander is better defensively than Bozak is.

Because centers are more valuable and if you think you can develop him as one its probably better long term. Taking faceoffs isnt playing center, its taking faceoffs so its kind of irrelevant.

And I agree not every center is a two way beast but if one is while the other isnt and they produce similar offense that ones more valuable. But its irrelevant because Nylander has spent hardly any time at center in the last ~3 years. Leaf fans love to talk about him playing center when a comparison is made and they use it to prop him up as more valuable than he is, but right now hes not an NHL center and has never played center in the NHL for more than a few games here or there at most. Hes played almost exclusively with Matthews in his career, and when hes not with Matthews hes with Kadri. If a GM said I need to trade for a center, Nylander would not even be considered because he hasnt played for years and doesnt really play a style that a 2 way center would need to be effective.

Some Leaf fans talk like Nylander is a player like Giroux. Giroux has had plenty of successful years in the NHL at center, but is playing wing right now for the Flyers. If someone said they needed a center, Giroux would be an option. Leaf fans talk like Nylander is an option at center even though hes played probalby 7 or so games at center in a row once in his now 3 season old career

 

[Smif]

So f theyre comparable at 5 on 5 offensively and Nylander is significantly better on the PP, why did Larkin outscore him last year? You would think if one has a significant edge somewhere offensively that they would be able to outproduce the other.

I really dont see how you can make that argument. Their rate stats are pretty comparable 5 on 5, but Nylander gets to play with the best 5 on 5 goal scorer in the league while Larkin is the go to guy on his line. The only real difference in their time on ice per game is the amount of time Larkin plays short handed, theyre less than a minute apart at even strength. And I would say that playing with the leagus best 5 on 5 scorer, and not having to waste non-offensive time/energy for 2 or more mins a game killing penalties more tha nmakes up for that difference.

Theyre very comparable offensively while one is a two way center, a GM is going to trade more for a two way center than a softer winger.

Look at TOI for F's sake...Larkin gets more than 3 mins per game more. That's the equivalent of Larkin playing 13 more games than Nylander.

Edit: Actually did the math and it's like Larkin playing 99 games to Willy's 82.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Some Leaf fans talk like Nylander is a player like Giroux. Giroux has had plenty of successful years in the NHL at center, but is playing wing right now for the Flyers. If someone said they needed a center, Giroux would be an option. Leaf fans talk like Nylander is an option at center even though hes played probalby 7 or so games at center in a row once in his now 3 season old career

Ottawa and even more so Montreal would take him and use him as a centre, and unlike Drouin and now Domi, not be miscast.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Look at TOI for F's sake...Larkin gets more than 3 mins per game more. That's the equivalent of Larkin playing 13 more games than Nylander.

Edit: Actually did the math and it's like Larkin playing 99 games to Willy's 82.

And if you bother to look a little bit deeper, it’s because Larkin plays on the PK.

 

[TheMule93]

And if you bother to look a little bit deeper, it’s because Larkin plays on the PK.

Larkin plays 14:51 5v5 per game with 2:09 PP time

Nylander plays 13:50 5v5 per game with 2:01min of PP time

So Larkin plays an extra minute per game at even strength, on average. PP time is basically a wash. Even excluding PK time, Larkin got a good bit more ice time.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If he was some young, cant miss center prospect he could've played over 50 point Bozak no? Hes going on 4 years now without playing center, never has played it in the NHL,but we're going to keep saying hes one?

Nylander has some weaknesses in his game that make me wonder how good of a center he would be. He has much more of a winger skill set

Did we apply this same logic to Seguin and many others before him who did not start at C? How come guys like Marleau, JVR etc. can't beat out Hyman for 1st line wing?