Confirmed with Link: Vrana traded to STL

[N0cturne]

The last few pages of this thread are not a good look. To suddenly run rampant with speculation regarding someone's character after a split occurs as opposed to all the well wishes in the initial PAP entry thread.

That's what happens when he scores 5 goals in his first 7 games with STL. People's opinions change real fast.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

It wasn’t going to work here. The bridge was burned.

Should it have been burned? Perhaps not. But it was. And Vrana knows he’s on a short leash in STL. Change of scenery for him that was badly needed.

I still do think it’s smoke and mirrors and he’ll be chugging along partying and STL will have an issue with him next year, but maybe the stuff with the Wings this year was his “rock bottom” that pushes him to realize he’s gotta take getting and stay better very seriously

He just got unclaimed when waived and had to be 50% retained to be traded. He has every incentive to behave next season cuz he won't get a lucrative contract the following year otherwise. Once he gets his contract, who knows, but he has every incentive before then

 

[RabidBadger]

Right. "Pens fans" according to you say stuff. Compelling.

Meanwhile he literally has the longest streak of games played for any player in the history of the NHL. The definition of lazy for sure.

It's almost like Phil Kessel is what Vrana could be if he has fraction of the heart and grit of Kessel.

People seem to forget Kessel had top end speed as a skater. Aside from being a Gopher, I don't have too many knocks on him as a player.

 

[saska sault]

This is like a forum of people complaining about their cheating ex girlfriend because she got a new hair cut.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

This is like a forum of people complaining about their cheating ex girlfriend because she got a new hair cut.

Really? Because Vrana is the one who went out and whines to sports media about Steve Yzerman

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Really? Because Vrana is the one who went out and whines to sports media about Steve Yzerman

When did he do that?

 

[norrisnick]

When did he do that?

Didn't you know? Last phase of PAP is to schedule an aggressive media campaign to have totally not awkward interviews about yourself with the added bonus of passing blame to everyone around you.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

I think it's far weirder that the majority are trying so hard to make it NOT a thing.

I don't know what your weird parallel is trying to do but if the situation somehow resulted in burning a major asset of a rebuilding team, then you can get your ass a bunch of hockey forum nerds would burn electrons overanalyzing it. And that would be an appropriate use of the fan forum's electrons.

I think it's pretty disingenuous to call Vrana a major asset. Looking back at the Mantha trade its pretty clear that it wasn't some hypnosis-induced uber fleece by Yzerman, but an exchange of troubled players with Washington adding extra value to rid themselves of Vrana's presence. We already got fair value for Mantha with the 1st and 2nd, Vrana was a free lottery ticket that didn't hit. Not the end of the world.

 

[norrisnick]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to call Vrana a major asset. Looking back at the Mantha trade its pretty clear that it wasn't some hypnosis-induced uber fleece by Yzerman, but an exchange of troubled players with Washington adding extra value to rid themselves of Vrana's presence. We already got fair value for Mantha with the 1st and 2nd, Vrana was a free lottery ticket that didn't hit. Not the end of the world.

I'd say it's pretty disingenuous to "look back" at the trade and rewrite it as Vrana being the tack on and not a big young winger being traded for a smaller less established young winger with the picks balancing out the value.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

I'd say it's pretty disingenuous to "look back" at the trade and rewrite it as Vrana being the tack on and not a big young winger being traded for a smaller less established young winger with the picks balancing out the value.

That's what rational people do - use newly available information to recontextualize our understanding of past events. When the trade happened it was reasonable with the information available to believe that Yzerman had pulled off a slick trade and came up on a valuable asset. 2 years later with everything that's transpired, it's clear that that wasn't the case. Do you honestly believe that Yzerman and MacLellan were completely unaware of Vrana's personal issues and hadnt taken them into consideration when discussing the trade?

 

[norrisnick]

That's what rational people do - use newly available information to recontextualize our understanding of past events. When the trade happened it was reasonable with the information available to believe that Yzerman had pulled off a slick trade and came up on a valuable asset. 2 years later with everything that's transpired, it's clear that that wasn't the case. Do you honestly believe that Yzerman and MacLellan were completely unaware of Vrana's personal issues and hadnt taken them into consideration when discussing the trade?

Ok, now consider the information regarding Mantha. Promising yet problematic winger for promising yet problematic winger that is smaller and less established. Two young projects traded for each other with a cap dump and picks sprinkled in to balance. To rewind and claim that Vrana was a tack-on at the time, using the circuitous last few seasons is revisionism at it's finest.

 

[Holden Caufield]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to call Vrana a major asset. Looking back at the Mantha trade its pretty clear that it wasn't some hypnosis-induced uber fleece by Yzerman, but an exchange of troubled players with Washington adding extra value to rid themselves of Vrana's presence. We already got fair value for Mantha with the 1st and 2nd, Vrana was a free lottery ticket that didn't hit. Not the end of the world.

Yzerman threw piles of guaranteed money at Vrana shortly after the trade. That proves he valued him significantly (at that time).

GM’s don’t spend 10.5 milly on ‘lotto tickets’

Perlini types are lotto ticket…

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yzerman threw piles of guaranteed money at Vrana shortly after the trade. That proves he valued him significantly (at that time).

GM’s don’t spend 10.5 milly on ‘lotto tickets’

Perlini types are lotto ticket…

Ok. who the f*** actually cares?

Vrana was valued highly when they traded for him. Stuff happened here and his value evaporated such that nobody took him for free and the Wings had to essentially pay freight to get St. Louis to take the risk on.

Like belly ache about losing an asset all you want, but Vrana at the time of the Mantha trade and Vrana at the time of the 50% retained for the 7th trade were not remotely the same.

St Louis took a low risk chance. Good on them. They’re supporting Vrana. Good on them. They’re also likely going to stop supporting him when/if he backslides.

 

[norrisnick]

Ok. who the f*** actually cares?

Vrana was valued highly when they traded for him. Stuff happened here and his value evaporated such that nobody took him for free and the Wings had to essentially pay freight to get St. Louis to take the risk on.

Like belly ache about losing an asset all you want, but Vrana at the time of the Mantha trade and Vrana at the time of the 50% retained for the 7th trade were not remotely the same.

St Louis took a low risk chance. Good on them. They’re supporting Vrana. Good on them. They’re also likely going to stop supporting him when/if he backslides.

Probably the posters talking about it.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Probably the posters talking about it.

I was talking about "whether he was a lottery ticket or not".

What Vrana was at the time of the Mantha trade is not remotely indicative of what he was by the time the Wings dealt him. And if you're angry that the Wings traded away a high value asset, it's a bad faith argument. Feel free to discuss it as you are, but if you're using what he was dealt for as a reason that Yzerman should have gotten more from St. Louis, the two things aren't related.

That's the issue. 2020 Vrana is MUCH different from 2022 Vrana, regardless of what one week in St. Louis might hint to you.

Everyone is obviously free to discuss all they want, but you can't ignore the context that is Vrana's 2021 and 2022 years with Detroit to argue that he should have drawn more of a return.

 

[jkutswings]

Ok. who the f*** actually cares?

Congrats! You totally nailed Phase 6 of HFB discussion:

1) New Topic
2) Ongoing
3) Established Yet Relevant
4) Losing Importance
5) No Longer Relevant
6) Who The F Cares
7) Beating Dead Horse
8) Necroing Said Horse
9) Beating Undead Horse
10) Topic Banned From Forums

Some things just never get dropped. (At the moment I'd put Vrana in #4, but there will still be an audience for the topic even once it's at #10.)

 

[norrisnick]

I was talking about "whether he was a lottery ticket or not".

What Vrana was at the time of the Mantha trade is not remotely indicative of what he was by the time the Wings dealt him. And if you're angry that the Wings traded away a high value asset, it's a bad faith argument. Feel free to discuss it as you are, but if you're using what he was dealt for as a reason that Yzerman should have gotten more from St. Louis, the two things aren't related.

That's the issue. 2020 Vrana is MUCH different from 2022 Vrana, regardless of what one week in St. Louis might hint to you.

Everyone is obviously free to discuss all they want, but you can't ignore the context that is Vrana's 2021 and 2022 years with Detroit to argue that he should have drawn more of a return.

And it doesn't really matter what I was talking about as the point remains. The people talking about it care enough to be talking about it.

Value at time A vs time B is largely irrelevant.

It's just shifting the distraction away from someone expected to talk to the media every day to someone who talks to the media three times a year.

The issue is letting it become a distraction in the first place. The only reason Vrana became an issue is because Lalonde wouldn't play him upon his return. He can obviously play as Berube has discovered. Strangely Chief didn't put a ton of stock on a handful of AHL games after 2-3 months of inactivity, yet Lalonde has pointed at them numerous times post trade. "Look! Even GR scratched him! It's not just me!"

Paying another team to take a serviceable player because your coach couldn't (wouldn't?) work with him is not a great showing. But since he's not LFG that's fine...

 

[jaster]

But since he's not LFG that's fine...

Don't drag me into this shit. I want no part of the Vrana conspiracy theory arguments!

 

[norrisnick]

Don't drag me into this shit. I want no part of the Vrana conspiracy theory arguments!

And what pray tell makes you think I'm talking about you?

 

[jaster]

*grumble, grumble* freaking dog whistle *grumble, grumble*

 

[ArGarBarGar]

And it doesn't really matter what I was talking about as the point remains. The people talking about it care enough to be talking about it.

Value at time A vs time B is largely irrelevant.

It's just shifting the distraction away from someone expected to talk to the media every day to someone who talks to the media three times a year.

The issue is letting it become a distraction in the first place. The only reason Vrana became an issue is because Lalonde wouldn't play him upon his return. He can obviously play as Berube has discovered. Strangely Chief didn't put a ton of stock on a handful of AHL games after 2-3 months of inactivity, yet Lalonde has pointed at them numerous times post trade. "Look! Even GR scratched him! It's not just me!"

Paying another team to take a serviceable player because your coach couldn't (wouldn't?) work with him is not a great showing. But since he's not LFG that's fine...

This isn't contradictory to the premise that Vrana had issues with the team outside of what happens on the ice.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Ok, now consider the information regarding Mantha. Promising yet problematic winger for promising yet problematic winger that is smaller and less established. Two young projects traded for each other with a cap dump and picks sprinkled in to balance. To rewind and claim that Vrana was a tack-on at the time, using the circuitous last few seasons is revisionism at it's finest.

So you're saying that the difference between Mantha and Vrana's value is a first and a second? That doesn't seem to indicate that Vrana is considered to be a MAJOR asset by anyone outside of these forums. What does that make Mantha? A 6'5" Patrick Kane in his prime?

Again, it's not unreasonable that fans at the time considered him to be a big get, however new information has come to light since then that indicates that was never the case.

 

[SoupGuru]

Should we have kept Vrossa instead of Franza?

Sorry, it's all blurring together... does anyone else smell burnt toast?

 

[norrisnick]

So you're saying that the difference between Mantha and Vrana's value is a first and a second? That doesn't seem to indicate that Vrana is considered to be a MAJOR asset by anyone outside of these forums. What does that make Mantha? A 6'5" Patrick Kane in his prime?

Again, it's not unreasonable that fans at the time considered him to be a big get, however new information has come to light since then that indicates that was never the case.

Those weren't the only players involved. Nearly dead contract Panik moved as well. Eating nearly $3M for multiple years isn't cheap.

 

[Oddbob]

Vrana just admitted that he kicked Yzerman's puppy and laughed in Detroit. Yzerman revealed that actually that was Lalonde's puppy, and that neither could trust Vrana not to think it was funny to kick a puppy. He was scratched the 4 games after coming back up because he was learning to love said puppy. The puppy was having none of it, so Lalonde said it was either the puppy or Vrana. The puppy said he wasn't going to comment further on this issue, and wouldn't go as far as wishing Vrana well in St. Louis.