The Athletic Vogl - Who Stays, Who Goes

[Aladyyn]

Zach Bogosian was a 43% xGF player away from Rasmus Dahlin this season. The only difference between him and Scandella is handedness and the fact that Scandella at least used to be good.

 

[Aladyyn]

Pominville does have the ability to survive, but we need guys with the ability to drive possession hockey away from Jack, to be the generators AND finishers of chances, and Pominville is the "makes the right decision and flips the puck in when he's closed in on in the NZ, where other players in that spot may not have been as smart but also wouldn't have been there in the first place because they have a much better ability to make/use space effectively because their legs haven't deteriorated yet" guy

I mean, when I watch Jason Pominville play hockey I want to rip my hair out but his results are like, pretty good? Even away from Eichel. Idk how he does it.

 

[Doohickie]

Maybe I’m in the minority here - I don’t hate one more year of Bogosian as a 5/6, physical RHD.

You're not alone.

 

[Doohickie]

Housley’s use of him was ridiculous and a smarter coach would get more out of him.

This is Housley's reign in a nutshell. His player usage up and down the lineup was atrocious.

This fact gives me great hope and optimism: Virtually any coach who replaces him should get better usage and results out of the existing players, and with a few roster tweaks the Sabres could be at least a playoff bubble team next year (as they appeared to be for almost half of this season).

 

[Aladyyn]

After skimming through the article I somehow feel worse about this team than I did before.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'll never understand: if Pominville was productive with Jack, why separate them? Don't mistake this as suggesting the 2018 Buffalo Sabres should have built around 96 year old Jason Pominville, at least play the cards you're dealt.

 

[Chainshot]

I'll never understand: if Pominville was productive with Jack, why separate them? Don't mistake this as suggesting the 2018 Buffalo Sabres should have built around 96 year old Jason Pominville, at least play the cards you're dealt.

JPom's production dried up playing with Jack -- he started slumping, just like he did early in the previous year -- and then we saw Phil cement Reinhart to that wing for much of the rest of the year.

 

[Doohickie]

Or pair Borgen with Dahlin if Borgen is ready.

Have you seen any video of Borgen from Rochester? He can totally replace Bogo's physicality.

 

[Jame]

I don’t know why you only quoted part of my post and ignored the part where I said my preference was to get rid of him. But he was used in a role he never played before, got buried in it and the coach kept trotting him out there to get clobbered.

Because I only wanted to know why you thought he could be salvaged... was this supposed to be an answer?

I know the circumstances of his suckage... why do you think he can be salvaged?

 

[Doohickie]

Why?

Because he might not be moveable. If another coach can get something out of him, great. If not, AHL him and give a young guy a chance. I'm not for or against him, just saying he's an asset controlled by the team and if he can contribute you might as well get what you can out of him. In Housley's case the answer was he didn't get much out him but I think Housley was good at not getting the most out of anyone except his top stars.

 

[Aladyyn]

I don’t know why you only quoted part of my post and ignored the part where I said my preference was to get rid of him. But he was used in a role he never played before, got buried in it and the coach kept trotting him out there to get clobbered.

He didn't magically become terrible on the Sabres. We got the player the Blues had last season.

 

[Doohickie]

Pominville does have the ability to survive, but we need guys with the ability to drive possession hockey away from Jack, to be the generators AND finishers of chances, and Pominville is the "makes the right decision and flips the puck in when he's closed in on in the NZ, where other players in that spot may not have been as smart but also wouldn't have been there in the first place because they have a much better ability to make/use space effectively because their legs haven't deteriorated yet" guy

I love Pommer but it's time for a front office job or position at the Academy of Hockey for him. Let him wave to the fans at alumni events.

 

[Endless Ike]

What’s wrong with one more year of Bogosian in a bottom pair role?

If we’re asking him to fill a Top 4 role again than yes, I agree with you.

He has one healthy year in his last five and will want to get paid more than he probably should. Other than that nothing.

 

[Doohickie]

Keeping Bogosian is fine in my camp... I also am fine moving him since Montour is now on our roster.

I don't see Montour and Bogo playing the same role at all. Montour doesn't bring a heavy game at all.

 

[OkimLom]

Problem with the Sabres is not that they have Okposo or a Bogo, it’s that they double downed and then tripled downed on those skill levels and roles.

 

[Jame]

Because he might not be moveable. If another coach can get something out of him, great. If not, AHL him and give a young guy a chance. I'm not for or against him, just saying he's an asset controlled by the team and if he can contribute you might as well get what you can out of him. In Housley's case the answer was he didn't get much out him but I think Housley was good at not getting the most out of anyone except his top stars.

Terrible player, not being used terribly, is still terrible

 

[Doohickie]

He didn't magically become terrible on the Sabres. We got the player the Blues had last season.

The stats say otherwise. In six years with St. Louis he was a .4 ppg player with a +12 +/- rating. Not bad, and much, much better than less than .2 ppg, -20 +/- with the Sabres. Housley killed his play.

He wasn't great his last year with the Blues but he scored at over twice the rate he did in Buffalo.

 

[Icicle]

What’s wrong with one more year of Bogosian in a bottom pair role?

If we’re asking him to fill a Top 4 role again than yes, I agree with you.

Because he’s Eichels best friend and he’s more than happy to just be in the locker room. No compete

 

[Chainshot]

The stats say otherwise. In six years with St. Louis he was a .4 ppg player with a +12 +/- rating. Not bad, and much, much better than less than .2 ppg, -20 +/- with the Sabres. Housley killed his play.

Digging into his shot metrics, he is exactly the same bad player they got from the Blues.

 

[Aladyyn]

The stats say otherwise. In six years with St. Louis he was a .4 ppg player with a +12 +/- rating. Not bad, and much, much better than less than .2 ppg, -20 +/- with the Sabres. Housley killed his play.

Yeah I'm sorry but I don't really care what kind of player he was 6 years ago. He's been atrocious since he came back from Russia. That's a fact.

 

[Aladyyn]

I don't see Montour and Bogo playing the same role at all. Montour doesn't bring a heavy game at all.

You're missing the forest for the trees. The only difference that matters is that Montour is good at hockey and Bogosian is not.

 

[Doohickie]

Because he’s Eichels best friend and he’s more than happy to just be in the locker room. No compete

Wut.

You must be watching someone else.

 

[Aladyyn]

I rest my case.

 

[Doohickie]

Yeah I'm sorry but I don't really care what kind of player he was 6 years ago. He's been atrocious since he came back from Russia. That's a fact.

No, the fact his he maintained his .4 ppg after he returned while he was with St. Louis, but his production dropped by half with the Sabres.

 

[Aladyyn]

No, the fact his he maintained his .4 ppg after he returned while he was with St. Louis, but his production dropped by half with the Sabres.

Stop using worthless stats.