Tribute Vitali Kravtsov <3

[bhamill]

Well just because you have a clause that says you CAN run out on the team it doesn’t mean you SHOULD run out on the team… and it certainly doesn’t mean people can’t be pissed at you or yell at you. Did Krav also have an anti berating by management clause? Well then I guess Drury was within his rights too. I wouldn’t have done EITHER of these shitty things, but they were both within their rights, no? Can’t have your cake and eat it too. They both made mistakes you would hope they learned from…
BTW, Drury wasn’t the GM when Krav signed.

 

[eco's bones]

If he is dealt (and I expect he will be at least by the beginning of next year's camp) it will be interesting to see what he brings back. By all rights there should be a large marketplace for him. He is a very young and skilled player. He will be a very cheap contract again and with money in shorter and shorter supply with each year of the flattened cap younger players yet to make their mark can be good additions.....as well there are a number of bottom feeding teams who could use any talent they can get. I seriously doubt he'll bring back a 1st. The question is what kind of offers (if any) is Drury sitting on? I'm pretty sure he was sitting on a 2nd last summer. Another question is are other teams afraid the player might bolt back to Russia on them?

 

[kovazub94]

That is possible. Also possible that VK puts things together. I really think he should ask for 10 games in the AHL. He could go get in great shape working out on the ice 3-4 hours a day and show he can score in games? If I was his agent I would really push him to do this.

It’s Kravtsov we’re talking about. He’s so afraid of going there you might think it’s Wuhan.

 

[kovazub94]

I agree, even after all the drama I still believe he can be a fine NHL player. And, we need him. If there is an injury to any of our wingers (we've been incredibly fortunate being relatively injury free), he is the first player in line. I would not trade him at the TDL. If we must do so, it should be at the draft or over the summer.

I disagree with the bolded as far as the current season goes. If there’s an injury in top-9 (god forbid) it would be Goodrow first that would move there and probably Brodzinski recalled as 4th line replacement.

 

[JHS]

The entire Kravtsov situation will really be studied in GM schools around the world of a textbook way to miss manage assets.

1. Take a total flyer with a top 10 pick
2. Piss the kid off so much that he elects to run to Russia instead of staying in the organization
3. Bring him back in by promising he's got a chance but play him in a situation in which he has not chance of success bottom 6 role)
4. then let him rot in scratch land for so many games in a row that its impossible for any team to get a sense of what he is
5. Force a trade at terrible value

5 step guide to ruining an asset brought to you by the New York Rangers.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

In fairness to Krav re: the AHL, he earned a spot on the team last year and it was a joke they didn't keep him with the club to begin with. He pouted, which definitely wasn't the right way to handle things, but to all the people pushing the AHL as if it's some kind of development panacea for Russian players , there's really not a ton of history that says Russian players develop there. They actually have a better record of developing in the KHL.

The AHL very rarely seems to benefit players that are expected to be top scorers as the rope a dope style of play engaged in by most players down there just isn't conducive to developing top flight talent. It's why players like Ryan Carpenter can thrive down there and look lost at NHL speed.

The AHL is, however, an excellent place for defenseman, two-way forwards, checking forwards, grinders, and power forwards to develop.
That said, I don't see a reason Krav's camp couldn't have tried to work something out with the team that year where he goes down with a stipulation that he be called back up after a certain amount of time if it was supposedly for his physique and to get game stronger, as opposed to "this is where you are based on your own merit" as Greg McKegg goes on to stink up NHL ice.

Just my 2c.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It’s Kravtsov we’re talking about. He’s so afraid of going there you might think it’s Wuhan.

That is funny. I have to wonder about the people around him. Whether its his agents or family they should be suggesting exactly what I said. 10 games is not forever.

 

[kovazub94]

That is funny. I have to wonder about the people around him. Whether its his agents or family they should be suggesting exactly what I said. 10 games is not forever.

Just to be clear - there's a conditioning assignment that he has to agree to that covers 2 weeks - it's not number of games specific. Other options require waivers and the Rangers are not there yet thinking someone would try to scoop him for free.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Just to be clear - there's a conditioning assignment that he has to agree to that covers 2 weeks - it's not number of games specific. Other options require waivers and the Rangers are not there yet thinking someone would try to scoop him for free.

Okay thanks for the correction. We have 2 weeks. The time to do it is now. Actually should have been down a while ago. Go down with the understanding you are going to skate 3-5 hours a day and come back in super shape.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Okay thanks for the correction. We have 2 weeks. The time to do it is now. Actually should have been down a while ago. Go down with the understanding you are going to skate 3-5 hours a day and come back in super shape.

He has to agree. If he doesn’t, and he likely won’t, then he doesn’t go. End of story.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He has to agree. If he doesn’t, and he likely won’t, then he doesn’t go. End of story.

That is a shame for him and for us.

 

[IDvsEGO]

That is a shame for him and for us.

It’s still his choice. Blais accepted a stint and then got moved, but the ahl is very different hockey than the nhl, it’s actually more physical at times, so guys who could excel in the nhl sometimes get wrecked in the ahl. He gets injured in the ahl he’s screwed.

 

[bl02]

It’s still his choice. Blais accepted a stint and then got moved, but the ahl is very different hockey than the nhl, it’s actually more physical at times, so guys who could excel in the nhl sometimes get wrecked in the ahl. He gets injured in the ahl he’s screwed.

not saying you're wrong about the AHL being physical but if he can't handle two weeks in the AHL then he certainly can't contribute down the stretch and in the playoffs where NHL hockey becomes one of the most physical sports on the planet.

 

[Lion Hound]

The Andersson and Kravtsov stories both went sideways when players were asked to report to the AHL.

I personally think both stories would have had much better endings for the players if they only reported instead of going sideways. Andersson 3 seasons after the trade is still teetering in the AHL. He's playing well there, but if he only would have went back down he would have been recalled and likely centering a line for the Rangers right now. For Krav, if he would have went back there he would have got all sorts of icetime plus likely time on PP1. Instead, the talk is he has no Value around the league. I think it does more harm than good for a player who in thier developmental stages refuses to go there. The evidence is below. 4 players that were asked to go that did and are an integral part of the clubs success.

Im not an advocate for trading Kravtsov. Especially at zero value as some of the beat is reporting. I don't know where this goes sideways, but i think the right agents, and the right mentors factor heavy here. I can't place the blame on the Organization as the people that did report when asked to and were professional about it seem to be in a much better sport in their career.

Lindgren came to the Rangers in 2018 via trade. He just turned 20.
He was sent to HFD. In his first season he played 10 Games. In his 2nd season he played 65 Games and got called up for 5 NHL games with the Rangers. In season 3 he played only 9 in the AHL and then 60 Games with the big club. One season later he cemented himself in the top pairing.

Chytil reported 2X. First time In 2017/18 He played 46 Games produced at .67PPG. 2nd time in 2019/2020. He produced PPG over 9 game stretch.

Schneider was drafted in 2020. He was sent to the AHL after his season ended with the Wheat Kings. 2 Games, Next season he played 24 games in the AHL and 43 with the Rangers. He cemented himself into the roster by the age of 21.

Kreider came to the Rangers and reported for 2 seasons to the AHL. He's been a tremendous story for the Orgnization. 12 Seasons later, he is wearing an A, and is 7th all time on the NYR goal scoring list.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The Andersson and Kravtsov stories both went sideways when players were asked to report to the AHL.

I personally think both stories would have had much better endings for the players if they only reported instead of going sideways. Andersson 3 seasons after the trade is still teetering in the AHL. He's playing well there, but if he only would have went back down he would have been recalled and likely centering a line for the Rangers right now. For Krav, if he would have went back there he would have got all sorts of icetime plus likely time on PP1. Instead, the talk is he has no Value around the league. I think it does more harm than good for a player who in thier developmental stages refuses to go there. The evidence is below. 3 players that were asked to go that did and are an integral part of the clubs success.

Im not an advocate for trading Kravtsov. Especially at zero value as some of the beat is reporting. I don't know where this goes sideways, but i think the right agents, and the right mentors factor heavy here. I can't place the blame on the Organization as the people that did report when asked to and were professional about it seem to be in a much better sport in their career.

Lindgren came to the Rangers in 2018 via trade. He just turned 20.
He was sent to HFD. In his first season he played 10 Games. In his 2nd season he played 65 Games and got called up for 5 NHL games with the Rangers. In season 3 he played only 9 in the AHL and then 60 Games with the big club. One season later he cemented himself in the top pairing.

Chytil reported 2X. First time In 2017/18 He played 46 Games produced at .67PPG. 2nd time in 2019/2020. He produced PPG over 9 game stretch.

Schneider was drafted in 2020. He was sent to the AHL after his season ended with the Wheat Kings. 2 Games, Next season he played 24 games in the AHL and 43 with the Rangers. He cemented himself into the roster by the age of 21.

Kreider came to the Rangers and reported for 2 seasons to the AHL. He's been a tremendous story for the Orgnization. 12 Seasons later, he is wearing an A, and is 7th all time on the NYR goal scoring list.

I think you’re also comparing a 7th overall (too high) and a 9th overall, to mid 20’s and a 16th overall pick.

There’s a big difference in initial expectations when you’re drafted that high.
Would Kakko have gone to the ahl when he struggled in his rookie year? Probably not.

For a U.S. born kid, Hartford is likely not a big deal as you speak the language and can easily get around.
For someone who doesn’t speak the language I have to imagine it’s a struggle.

Also remember neither LA nor VK grew up struggling, so Hartford would probably not be a great city to live in, nor riding the bus etc.

 

[JHS]

The Andersson and Kravtsov stories both went sideways when players were asked to report to the AHL.

I personally think both stories would have had much better endings for the players if they only reported instead of going sideways. Andersson 3 seasons after the trade is still teetering in the AHL. He's playing well there, but if he only would have went back down he would have been recalled and likely centering a line for the Rangers right now. For Krav, if he would have went back there he would have got all sorts of icetime plus likely time on PP1. Instead, the talk is he has no Value around the league. I think it does more harm than good for a player who in thier developmental stages refuses to go there. The evidence is below. 3 players that were asked to go that did and are an integral part of the clubs success.

Im not an advocate for trading Kravtsov. Especially at zero value as some of the beat is reporting. I don't know where this goes sideways, but i think the right agents, and the right mentors factor heavy here. I can't place the blame on the Organization as the people that did report when asked to and were professional about it seem to be in a much better sport in their career.

Lindgren came to the Rangers in 2018 via trade. He just turned 20.
He was sent to HFD. In his first season he played 10 Games. In his 2nd season he played 65 Games and got called up for 5 NHL games with the Rangers. In season 3 he played only 9 in the AHL and then 60 Games with the big club. One season later he cemented himself in the top pairing.

Chytil reported 2X. First time In 2017/18 He played 46 Games produced at .67PPG. 2nd time in 2019/2020. He produced PPG over 9 game stretch.

Schneider was drafted in 2020. He was sent to the AHL after his season ended with the Wheat Kings. 2 Games, Next season he played 24 games in the AHL and 43 with the Rangers. He cemented himself into the roster by the age of 21.

Kreider came to the Rangers and reported for 2 seasons to the AHL. He's been a tremendous story for the Orgnization. 12 Seasons later, he is wearing an A, and is 7th all time on the NYR goal scoring list.

He has 0 value because he’s not a good hockey player more so than because he’s not been a good organization guy. Plenty of terrible organization guys( think Evander Kane) get picked up by other organizations if they have an ounce of NHL talent. This guy does not. He will end up back in Russia in less than a year and no one in North America will remember his name in less than 4 years.

I think you’re also comparing a 7th overall (too high) and a 9th overall, to mid 20’s and a 16th overall pick.

There’s a big difference in initial expectations when you’re drafted that high.
Would Kakko have gone to the ahl when he struggled in his rookie year? Probably not.

For a U.S. born kid, Hartford is likely not a big deal as you speak the language and can easily get around.
For someone who doesn’t speak the language I have to imagine it’s a struggle.

Also remember neither LA nor VK grew up struggling, so Hartford would probably not be a great city to live in, nor riding the bus etc.

Hartford is fine- you talk about it like it’s a Russian Prison. If you are a professional hockey player and think you are only willing to play in the NHL then your ego is massive. Like beyond anything that could realistically be helped.

 

[will1066]

He has 0 value because he’s not a good hockey player more so than because he’s not been a good organization guy. Plenty of terrible organization guys( think Evander Kane) get picked up by other organizations if they have an ounce of NHL talent. This guy does not. He will end up back in Russia in less than a year and no one in North America will remember his name in less than 4 years.


Hartford is fine- you talk about it like it’s a Russian Prison. If you are a professional hockey player and think you are only willing to play in the NHL then your ego is massive. Like beyond anything that could realistically be helped.

Such a sick burn lol

 

[Lion Hound]

He has 0 value because he’s not a good hockey player more so than because he’s not been a good organization guy. Plenty of terrible organization guys( think Evander Kane) get picked up by other organizations if they have an ounce of NHL talent. This guy does not. He will end up back in Russia in less than a year and no one in North America will remember his name in less than 4 years.


Hartford is fine- you talk about it like it’s a Russian Prison. If you are a professional hockey player and think you are only willing to play in the NHL then your ego is massive. Like beyond anything that could realistically be helped.

Don't really agree with the first part. He's a good hockey player among his peers and would have never been drafted in the first round if he wasn't. I think its what transpired post draft that hurt him.

 

[Lion Hound]

I think you’re also comparing a 7th overall (too high) and a 9th overall, to mid 20’s and a 16th overall pick.

There’s a big difference in initial expectations when you’re drafted that high.
Would Kakko have gone to the ahl when he struggled in his rookie year? Probably not.

For a U.S. born kid, Hartford is likely not a big deal as you speak the language and can easily get around.
For someone who doesn’t speak the language I have to imagine it’s a struggle.

Also remember neither LA nor VK grew up struggling, so Hartford would probably not be a great city to live in, nor riding the bus etc.

Does it really matter how high of a pick you were? Rangers reached a bit for him anyway with the 9th. ESPN ranked him 23rd. Sporting news #17. I think Redline and Blackbook had him around 10.

Not sure what you meant by the last part. Grew up struggling? If your playing professional hockey in the AHL as a 20 year old is that struggling?

I think it's more about charachter and professionalism. Are you willing to do what it takes to get there? If getting there is a longer curve by learning NA game at the AHL level then these guys should have been more open to it.

 

[kovazub94]

I think you’re also comparing a 7th overall (too high) and a 9th overall, to mid 20’s and a 16th overall pick.

There’s a big difference in initial expectations when you’re drafted that high.
Would Kakko have gone to the ahl when he struggled in his rookie year? Probably not.

For a U.S. born kid, Hartford is likely not a big deal as you speak the language and can easily get around.
For someone who doesn’t speak the language I have to imagine it’s a struggle.

Also remember neither LA nor VK grew up struggling, so Hartford would probably not be a great city to live in, nor riding the bus etc.

The only ones that get more preferential treatment are 1/2OA. That's it. Being drafted 7th or 9th sounds nice and it helps a little with ECL structure, e.g. performance bonuses, but otherwise as staying in CHL or going to AHL is concerned - there should be no difference compared to teen or 20's picks.

Both situations were caused by not reporting to Hartford against the contractual responsibilities.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

The Andersson and Kravtsov stories both went sideways when players were asked to report to the AHL.

I personally think both stories would have had much better endings for the players if they only reported instead of going sideways. Andersson 3 seasons after the trade is still teetering in the AHL. He's playing well there, but if he only would have went back down he would have been recalled and likely centering a line for the Rangers right now. For Krav, if he would have went back there he would have got all sorts of icetime plus likely time on PP1. Instead, the talk is he has no Value around the league. I think it does more harm than good for a player who in thier developmental stages refuses to go there. The evidence is below. 3 players that were asked to go that did and are an integral part of the clubs success.

Im not an advocate for trading Kravtsov. Especially at zero value as some of the beat is reporting. I don't know where this goes sideways, but i think the right agents, and the right mentors factor heavy here. I can't place the blame on the Organization as the people that did report when asked to and were professional about it seem to be in a much better sport in their career.

Lindgren came to the Rangers in 2018 via trade. He just turned 20.
He was sent to HFD. In his first season he played 10 Games. In his 2nd season he played 65 Games and got called up for 5 NHL games with the Rangers. In season 3 he played only 9 in the AHL and then 60 Games with the big club. One season later he cemented himself in the top pairing.

Chytil reported 2X. First time In 2017/18 He played 46 Games produced at .67PPG. 2nd time in 2019/2020. He produced PPG over 9 game stretch.

Schneider was drafted in 2020. He was sent to the AHL after his season ended with the Wheat Kings. 2 Games, Next season he played 24 games in the AHL and 43 with the Rangers. He cemented himself into the roster by the age of 21.

Kreider came to the Rangers and reported for 2 seasons to the AHL. He's been a tremendous story for the Orgnization. 12 Seasons later, he is wearing an A, and is 7th all time on the NYR goal scoring list.

I agree with your point if Krav went for a limited time and specifically only to work on physical play.

Part of the reason skill players rarely benefit from development in the AHL is the style of gameplay is so different. I think it's one thing to send Krav down to work on his physical play and being stronger, entirely another to work on his offense and overall game.

Part of what makes scoring forwards unique is their reads both with and without the puck, and the ability to recognize and create plays. If Krav was drafted as a power forward, grinder, two way player fine. But that's just not his style, and he's not going to have anyone in the AHL who is compatible with his style. In essence, he's going to be asked to play like a grinder in the AHL, which is the exact argument for GG not dressing him on the 4th line in the NHL. He's not going to be playing with skilled players. They're not going to go to scoring areas, they're not going to find him in scoring areas. They're going to go to the boards, and they're going to expect him to do the same. I watched him play in 2019-20 with the Pack, and it was clear the way he thought the game was vastly different than everyone else on the team - because most of the players were fringe NHLers and there was nary a top scoring prospect on the roster. End result? Krav put up a very mediocre points total. Just like Chytil did in his larger AHL sample (his 2nd AHL season is a clear case of small sample size, so even though the numbers are good I wouldn't read too much into that).

Top scoring forwards don't have a good track record of AHL development unless their playstyle is power forward, or big physical playmaking center.

So if it's strictly for Krav to work out/get stronger/work on physical play and with an expiration date, I can see it, but I don't see the AHL overall as conducive to his offensive development / offensive instincts.

 

[Daves a mess]

So if Kravtsov gets traded, reports to new team, and sucks ballz after 10 games, is it still " cool" if he, when asked, refuses to go to the AHL and/ or bolts back to the KHL?

I know. New team is clueless to his skillzzz and their coach should be FIRED for not seeing this victimized generational talent with a neck boner?

 

[NickyFotiu]

It’s still his choice. Blais accepted a stint and then got moved, but the ahl is very different hockey than the nhl, it’s actually more physical at times, so guys who could excel in the nhl sometimes get wrecked in the ahl. He gets injured in the ahl he’s screwed.

It should be about him getting in to his best shape and sharp. Will never succeed in the NHL if scared to play in the AHL. Plenty of small guys like Zooks played in the AHL.

 

[Mandar]

So if Kravtsov gets traded, reports to new team, and sucks ballz after 10 games, is it still " cool" if he, when asked, refuses to go to the AHL and/ or bolts back to the KHL?

I know. New team is clueless to his skillzzz and their coach should be FIRED for not seeing this victimized generational talent with a neck boner?

But, But, But.....his defensive metrics are OFF THE CHARTS!!! High 90's percentile....

 

[kovazub94]

So if Kravtsov gets traded, reports to new team, and sucks ballz after 10 games, is it still " cool" if he, when asked, refuses to go to the AHL and/ or bolts back to the KHL?

I know. New team is clueless to his skillzzz and their coach should be FIRED for not seeing this victimized generational talent with a neck boner?

Your post reminded me of the newest episode of South Park. They had an establishment that was there to create a “brand” for each individual. In each brand description there was a “victim” as part of its description.