Virtanen for Colorada's 10th overall?

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Ainec

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Jun 20, 2009
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Gudbranson is an established NHL player that seems to have taken the next step in his development. As a 24 year old, he is just entering his prime as a defenseman, and the Canucks will likely get 8-9 years of great hockey from Gudbranson. And oh yeah - the Canucks REALLY needed a big and mean Top 4 calibre RHD.

Most 10th overall picks don't turn into anything significant.

Not sure what your argument against mine was.. but what I'm saying is that no GM in the league except maybe Benning would value Gudbranson as a top 10 pick in the 2016 draft.

The fact we gave up a better prospect in McCann and won't trade JV is the argument
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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This is funny coming from you. Unless I'm mistaken didn't you plug in a bunch of our prospects into hypothetical starting lineups down the road? I like to caution these type of people and posts. They're not realistic.

I can't recall doing that, but if I did, perhaps I was bored and was trying to gaze into the future. Who knows.

My argument for trading JV for the 10th has nothing to do with shiney new toy syndrome. It is a gamble but it is by far the better move given the current data, 10/10 times.

Your whole argument is based on the premise that the Canucks could trade Virtanen for the 10th overall. I don't think it's possible. You'd be lucky to get a Top 15 pick with Virtanen.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the Canucks should be patient with Virtanen. I believe his combination of speed and physicality will be a solid asset to us one day.
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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no GM in the league except maybe Benning would value Gudbranson as a top 10 pick in the 2016 draft.

Did Benning actually give up a Top 10 pick in the 2016 draft for Gudbranson? (we both know the answer to that question).

If not, then you are just mindlessly speculating.

And for the record, no, I don't think Benning would value Gudbranson as a Top 10 pick in the 2016 draft.
 

Ainec

Panetta was not racist
Jun 20, 2009
21,784
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Did Benning actually give up a Top 10 pick in the 2016 draft for Gudbranson? (we both know the answer to that question).

If not, then you are just mindlessly speculating.

And for the record, no, I don't think Benning would value Gudbranson as a Top 10 pick in the 2016 draft.

Your whole argument is based on the premise that the Canucks could trade Virtanen for the 10th overall. I don't think it's possible. You'd be lucky to get a Top 15 pick with Virtanen.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the Canucks should be patient with Virtanen. I believe his combination of speed and physicality will be a solid asset to us one day.

.... hello

This is all hypothetical anyways because Colorado wouldn't do this

We won't trade Virtanen for a 10th but will trade McCann (who was seen as the better prospect by the vast majority of HFVan in every h2h poll) + 2nd for Gudbranson
 

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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The fact we gave up a better prospect in McCann and won't trade JV is the argument

How do we know for a fact that Benning won't trade JV if the right deal came along?

But again - this whole idea that we'd be able to trade JV, 1-1, for the 10th overall is unrealistic anyways.
 

Verviticus

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
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Bad conclusions? That doesn't even make sense, but I'll indulge you. This team blows, that is clear enough. But because of that fact, many posters here seem to have less patience for, and expect more out of our prospects as a result.

you're just observing something that always existed, but to which you are - for any reason - more sensitive. to be fair to you, you did acknowledge this, so maybe it was unfair to say you are concluding something inaccurately, my apologies

Back to Virtanen, he's a rookie with good underlying numbers. Do people expect a power forward to be racking up 50+ points in their rookie season? It's well established that power forwards take longer to develop. Lucic had 27 in his rookie year w/ 77 games. Had Virtanen had a full season, he probably would have finished w/ 20, which is more than acceptable.[/QUOTE]

i both think virtanen was a pleasant surprise last season and i would jump at the bit to trade him for the 10th OA. virtanen's expectations are not particularly unfair - for a 6OA he has been somewhere between a little bit and a medium amount of disappointing. the 10th OA this year is probably going to be a player i really covet and i would gladly take that risk
 

Verviticus

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
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Not sure what your argument against mine was.. but what I'm saying is that no GM in the league except maybe Benning would value Gudbranson as a top 10 pick in the 2016 draft.

The fact we gave up a better prospect in McCann and won't trade JV is the argument

im fairly certain that florida would not have accepted virtanen over mccann
 

JA

Guest
He's 6'1" and weighs 208 pounds. Strength is not his problem, vision is
That's rather light for the type of player that he is.

Alex Ovechkin has played between 225 lbs and 240 lbs since 2007. He currently weighs 238 lbs.

Todd Bertuzzi weighed 245 lbs at the height of his career.

Eric Lindros weighed 235 lbs at his best.

Virtanen is the type of player who needs to use his physical tools to thrive. He weighed 210 lbs when he was drafted as a 17-year-old and succeeded against kids with his size; he used his speed and strength to drive around the opposition and shield himself from opposing checks. He uses his strength to out-muscle the opposition -- he needs to be stronger than most other players on the ice. 208 lbs is much too light; I expect him as a full-grown adult to play at least 10 pounds heavier than that. When he was drafted, I figured he would be 225 lbs in his prime.

Jaromir Jagr weighed 210 lbs during the early part of his career, but by 1995-96 he weighed 225 lbs; with the Rangers he was 240 lbs, and now he plays at 230 lbs. Trevor Linden jumped from 200 lbs in his rookie season to 220 lbs by the late 1990s.
 
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Phenomenon13

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
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That's rather light for the type of player that he is.

Alex Ovechkin has played between 225 lbs and 240 lbs since 2007. He currently weighs 238 lbs.

Todd Bertuzzi weighed 245 lbs at the height of his career.

Eric Lindros weighed 235 lbs at his best.

Virtanen is the type of player who needs to use his physical tools to thrive. He weighed 210 lbs when he was drafted as a 17-year-old. He uses his strength to out-muscle the opposition -- he needs to be stronger than most other players on the ice.

Those guys are all much taller than virtanen. It would be silly to suggest he is going weigh that much. NHL players are bigger and part of the reason his physical game isn't as dominant is cause he has average height and weight. For all the smack about how small ehlers is, he is literally one feet shorter than virtanen and I doubt he will be extremely far off in terms of weight once he has filled out.

Virtanen weight level is consistent with what you would expect for his height. Ex. Landeskog
 

JA

Guest
Those guys are all much taller than virtanen. It would be silly to suggest he is going weigh that much. NHL players are bigger and part of the reason his physical game isn't as dominant is cause he has average height and weight. For all the smack about how small ehlers is, he is literally one feet shorter than virtanen and I doubt he will be extremely far off in terms of weight once he has filled out.

Virtanen weight level is consistent with what you would expect for his height. Ex. Landeskog
Jagr and Ovechkin are only an inch taller, and they have both played between 225 lb and 240 lbs as adults.

Todd Bertuzzi is two inches taller than Virtanen. 35 lbs is a significant difference for a two-inch difference in height.

Virtanen's game requires strength. I think he'll disappoint if he doesn't become any stronger. I think 220 lbs to 225 lbs would be about right. I don't expect a kid who, at 17 years of age was 210 lbs, to remain 210 lbs for the remainder of his playing career; if the strength advantage that he had relative to his peers at the junior level doesn't translate to the NHL level, then we lose the crucial element that brought him to the NHL in the first place.
 
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Phenomenon13

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Oct 10, 2011
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Jagr and Ovechkin are only an inch taller, and they have both played between 225 lb and 240 lbs as adults.

Todd Bertuzzi is two inches taller than Virtanen. 35 lbs is a significant difference for a two-inch difference in height.

I think your numbers re wrong.
Virtanen is listed as 6'1
https://www.nhl.com/player/jake-virtanen-8477937

Jagr ovechkin and bertuzzi are all 6'3
https://www.nhl.com/player/todd-bertuzzi-8459444
https://www.nhl.com/player/jaromir-jagr-8448208
https://www.nhl.com/player/alex-ovechkin-8471214

Lindros is 6'4
https://www.nhl.com/player/eric-lindros-8458515

It seems to me that bertuzzi and jagr around 230 while lindros and ovechkin are around 240.
Virtanen is around 210. That 2-3 inches difference is equating closer to 20-30 pounds of weight difference. I'd say it sounds like a rather reasonable difference.
 

JA

Guest
I think your numbers re wrong.
Virtanen is listed as 6'1
https://www.nhl.com/player/jake-virtanen-8477937

Jagr ovechkin and bertuzzi are all 6'3
https://www.nhl.com/player/todd-bertuzzi-8459444
https://www.nhl.com/player/jaromir-jagr-8448208
https://www.nhl.com/player/alex-ovechkin-8471214

Lindros is 6'4
https://www.nhl.com/player/eric-lindros-8458515

It seems to me that bertuzzi and jagr around 230 while lindros and ovechkin are around 240.
Virtanen is around 210. That 2-3 inches difference is equating closer to 20-30 pounds of weight difference. I'd say it sounds like a rather reasonable difference.
Eliteprospects lists Ovechkin at 6'2'' (187 cm) and Jagr at 6'2'' (189 cm).

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=4230
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=8627

I'm curious as to the actual measurements.

Bertuzzi was definitely 245 lbs in his prime.
It's NHL playoff time when ...: [Ontario Edition]
Woolsey, Garth. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 16 Apr 2003: C03.

...

The language took a beating after Al MacInnis got hammered into the immovable object (the old-style seamless glass in Vancouver) by the irresistible force (Todd Bertuzzi of the Canucks. Bertuzzi's weight is usually estimated at 245 pounds but is said lately to have topped out at 260-plus ... whoomph!).

...
It's not as easy as it looks: If it were easy, it wouldn't have taken Todd Bertuzzi seven seasons to become one of the NHL's elite: [Final Edition]
Kuzma, Ben. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 09 Oct 2002: C6.

...

Bertuzzi can fend off a frustrated foe with a beefy forearm, power to the net with one hand on his stick and either dish off a fabulous feed or whip the puck home. That dominance was never more evident than during a league-leading 15-game point streak to start the second half of last season. Then, in March, the 6-foot-3, 245- pound nightmare on skates had 12 points during a crucial six-game road trip -- including a memorable hat-trick performance in Pavel Bure's debut with the Rangers.

...
Jaromir Jagr played at 240 lbs in his Ranger days, although indeed, this source seems to identify him as being 6'3''. In the late 1990s, he weighed 225 lbs.
New York's Jagr feels as unstoppable as ever; Sabres have hands full; 'You can't really shut him down completely': [National Edition]
Traikos, Michael. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 01 May 2007: S5.

TARRYTOWN, N.Y. - Jaromir Jagr loves playing at Madison Square Garden for the same reason he once dressed in drag at a charity event in Czech Republic: He craves the attention.

Even when he is not wearing woman's clothing, the 6-foot-3, 240- pound player is hard to ignore.

...
This is a guy who, at one point, weighed 208 lbs.
Jaromir = Mario Jr.; Jagr's number etched in Czech history: [Final Edition]
JOE LAPOINTE New York Times. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 16 May 1992: H2.

...

Lemieux is taller than most hockey players at six-feet-four. Jagr is six-feet-two. Lemieux is heavy for a hockey player at 210 pounds. Jagr is 208. A sign in the Civic Arena on Wednesday night pointed out another eerie similarity. It scrambled the letters of Jagr's first name to say "JAROMIR = MARIO JR."

...
Mario Lemieux, also mentioned in that article, ended up weighing about 240 lbs in the latter part of his career.
Excerpts on Mario Lemieux's comeback game:: [Final Edition]
Sudbury Star [Sudbury, Ont] 31 Dec 2000: A6.

...

Some wonder what will happen to the newly publicity-conscious Mario once the tiring tedium of hockey routine settles over him again. They wonder how long his weights-and-bikes workout regimen, which has him at a well-muscled six-foot-four, 238 pounds, six pounds heavier than when he retired, will last when he starts getting banged up.

...
Lindros played at 235 lbs; he found that he was too heavy at 250 lbs.
Is Eric Lindros finished as an elite player?:: [Final Edition]
Matheson, Jim. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 17 Sep 2003: D2.

...

Lindros, who has suffered seven concussions during his career, at least managed to stay in one piece last season. His head was in the game for 81 nights, but his hands and legs let him down. He was 250 pounds; too much weight and too much baggage after his run of injuries.

"I thought he was too heavy. He's 236 pounds now, seven percent body fat. He was one of the top guys in every conditioning category we had at camp," said Rangers GM Glen Sather, who badly needs Lindros to return to some semblance of his old wrecking-ball self if the Rangers hope to be playoff contenders.

...
[For Oshawa sports fans, the Eric Lindros trial proved to ...]: [ZONE Edition]
Theresa Boyle and Paul Irish Toronto Star. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 11 Feb 1993: SD1.

...

So what compelled these fans to give up four days of their lives to watch the proceedings? Perhaps it was deep insights offered into the personal life of their hero.

They learned he stands precisely 6-foot-4 and weighs exactly 235 pounds.

...
This is how the entire Legion of Doom measured in 1997:
Sabres turn attention to stopping Flyers' Legion of Doom
Gleason, Bucky. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 03 May 1997: A.21.

...

Lindros (6-foot-4, 240 pounds), John LeClair (6-3, 230) and Mikael Renberg (6-2, 220) combined for 235 points during the regular season even though Lindros missed 30 games. They had 19 points in the Pittsburgh series.

The Sabres won the season series 2-1-1 and effectively shut down the Flyers by matching up the Lindros line with speedy forwards Michael Peca, Jason Dawe and Dixon Ward. Ward (6-foot, 200) is the biggest among the three.

"We're not going to intimidate them with our size, but maybe we can intimidate them with our speed," Dawe said. "We're not going to turn away from the hit if it's there, but we don't expect to be knocking Eric Lindros or John LeClair too far."

...
Bold and beautiful: Canucks winger is 'stinking strong,' with offensive talent to boot: [Final Edition]
Matheson, Jim. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 28 Dec 2002: C12 / Front.

...

How good is he? For starters, he's taken over from John LeClair as the best big package in the NHL. Power forward is the most overworked term in the league. Anybody who can score and muscle is supposed to be in that category -- which means Bill Guerin and Keith Tkachuk, Brendan Shanahan, LeClair and Iginla (before he got all his injuries this year).

But Bertuzzi is the ultimate power guy. He's 245 pounds; nobody else has ever been as big and as light on his feet. LeClair is 226 pounds; Tkachuk 225, Shanahan 218, Guerin 210, Iginla 205. You can throw Jaromir Jagr in there, too, but he's 60-per-cent finesse and 40-per-cent power at 234 pounds.

...
Alex Ovechkin plays at 239 lbs.
Could Ovie break unbreakable mark?; Prolific scorer
Kuzma, Ben. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 14 Jan 2016: A.70.

...

Ovechkin has elite skill and thinks the game at another level, so it's easy to imagine him putting up 40-goal seasons, even with a league average of 2.7 goals per game per team. At 6-foot-3 and 239 pounds, the 2004 first-round draft pick willingly exudes a hard driving, bulllike mentality, and that will take a toll over the years. He may have to adjust, and that could hurt the goal total.

...
In 1993, Keith Tkachuk weighed 210 lbs; in 2003, he weighed 225 lbs.
Shouldering responsibility; Jets have young captain, but Keith Tkachuk is handling it well: [Final Edition]
Kerr, Grant. The Ottawa Citizen [Ottawa, Ont] 18 Dec 1993: H3.

...

Now they're one of the most feared attack units in the NHL. The rugged Tkachuk provides a physical presence -- he's 6-2, 210 pounds -- that gives linemates room to manoeuvre.

...
Who's the hardest hitter?:: [Final Edition]
Bell, Terry. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 24 Feb 2003: A46.


...

Feisty forward Keith Tkachuk of the Blues, 6-foot-2 and 225 pounds, can often be found going after somebody for a hit or a fight.

...
Of course, after blowing up to 260 lbs and then being suspended, Tkachuk settled on a weight of 235 lbs for the remainder of his career.

Cam Neely, who is 6'1'', weighed about 218 lbs in 1993-94.
Neely can't believe roll he's on: [SA2 Edition]
Frank Orr TORONTO STAR. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 05 Mar 1994: E3.

....

Neely, who became a Bruin in an '86 trade with Vancouver Canucks, became the NHL's prototype power forward when he scored 55 and 51 goals in '89-90 and '90-91, plus 28 goals in 40 playoff games.

In style, he's much like the great Gordie Howe - big (6- foot-1, 218 pounds), an effortless skater, very strong and tough, and owner of a little man's soft hands. Like Howe, there's a strong economy in Neely's play. No stride is wasted in a game of straight lines, going directly to the puck or where it's likely to be.

...
Virtanen's game depends on strength, so I can't see him thriving at 208 lbs. I think 220 lbs, maybe 225 lbs should be his prime weight. All of these other players gained significant weight by the time they were in their mid-20s.
 
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Phenomenon13

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
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496
Eliteprospects lists Ovechkin at 6'2'' (187 cm) and Jagr at 6'2'' (189 cm).

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=4230
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=8627

I'm curious as to the actual measurements.

That is very interesting. The weight fluctuates more than I though for hockey players. I think virtanen can reach around 220 but I don't think that he should be any heavier than that. That would give around ten to twenty pounds on the average NHLer.


I'm not sure if I can take those measurements of height over the official measurements listed on NHL website. Height obviously doesn't change once you are an adult. Either way virtanen physical stature doesn't match up well against the power forwards of today. Lucic, Perry, getzlaf, Backes, etc...
Most of these guys have like 20-30 pounds with 3-4 inches on the average player. It's why they can be so physically imposing

Edit: going back to your point about virtanen filling out. I don't think he has very much go fill out or physical maturing left. He can reasonably add ten to fifteen pounds in one summer.
 
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SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
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If we can cut our losses with Virtanen we absolutely should.

That being said, Benning is known to double down on his mistakes. Expect Jake to be forced into the lineup again this upcoming season.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,735
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That's rather light for the type of player that he is.

...

I figured he would be 225 lbs in his prime.

Virtanen will get heavier with age, but I think the Canucks want him at 210-215 right now (which is around Iginla's post-lockout playing weight). Apparently, Virtanen ended up at around 230lbs at the end of his last junior year.

Personally, I think it's all about speed for Virtanen. He needs to play at a weight where he is the quickest. I think he has the strength to be an explosive hitter and drive to the net regardless of whether he plays at 210 or 230.
 

Verviticus

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
12,664
592
If we can cut our losses with Virtanen we absolutely should.

That being said, Benning is known to double down on his mistakes. Expect Jake to be forced into the lineup again this upcoming season.

cut what losses? you're misusing the term
 

JA

Guest
Virtanen will get heavier with age, but I think the Canucks want him at 210-215 right now (which is around Iginla's post-lockout playing weight). Apparently, Virtanen ended up at around 230lbs at the end of his last junior year.

Personally, I think it's all about speed for Virtanen. He needs to play at a weight where he is the quickest. I think he has the strength to be an explosive hitter and drive to the net regardless of whether he plays at 210 or 230.

He still moved around the ice well in spite of the extra weight, but I agree that speed is important to maintain. He needs to work on his agility, which I find to be somewhat lacking. Once he moves up the ice at full flight, he has trouble making tight turns. I feel like he could do more if he was shiftier.


Bo Horvat The young winger was once a wide-eyed rookie, but heading into his second year, he's sounding like a seasoned veteran
The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 06 Sep 2015: A.59.

...

The Canucks face the same decision with Jake Virtanen, the promising power forward, that they did with Horvat last year.

He can play another year in junior, or he can get on the Horvat plan in the NHL.

Virtanen has put in a ton of work this offseason. In Utica, at the end of the Comets' run to the AHL's Calder Cup, he weighed 228 pounds.

He's down to "214 or 215" now. The Canucks want him playing at 210-215 and have been overseeing his offseason training program in Vancouver since the Calder Cup ended.

...
Changing team's makeup, direction 'hard' for Benning
MacIntyre, Iain. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 06 Aug 2015: D.7.

...

Sun: Another of your elite prospects, Jake Virtanen, is still with Team Canada. Is he having the summer he needs to have to challenge for NHL playing time next season?

Benning: He's having a good summer. He's been working out hard. When he showed up in Utica (for the AHL playoffs), he was 228 pounds. He's down to 210 now. He has bought into doing the work off the ice and watching his diet and giving himself every opportunity he can to make our team.

...
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/07/25/canucks-sign-hometown-boy-jake-virtanen-to-his-entry-level-contract/
“He’s a shooter,” Benning said. “He’s going to have to play with somebody who can get him the puck. He’ll use his speed to drive wide and take the puck to the net.
“We understand the type of player he is. He’s a powerful skater and a strong kid but he’s going to have to play with someone who can make plays.”
I think he'll still be mobile at 220 lbs. I just think he'll naturally be stronger in his prime than he is now, which will enable him to do more.

Jarome Iginla was 193 lbs when he was drafted, so 210 lbs was 17 lbs above his teenage weight -- his frame doesn't allow him to carry as much weight. Virtanen was already 210 lbs when he was drafted. I think his natural adult weight will be about 220 lbs.
Iginla ready to surprise; St. Albert product hones his game in Kamloops; Jarome Iginla; 1995 NHL ENTRY DRAFT, D-DAY IN EDMONTON: [FINAL Edition]
Spector, Mark. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 08 July 1995: G.4.

...

Jarome Iginla

Jr. team: Kamloops Blazers

Right wing: 6-foot-1, 193 pounds

...
Iggy has ton of respect for old junior foe Marleau: [Final Edition]
Lefebvre, Jean. Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 08 May 2004: D3.

...

Besides their WHL pedigree and the 'C' stitched on their sweaters, Marleau and Iginla have other biographical traits in common. They both sport No. 12, they have similar builds -- Marleau is six-foot-two and 220 pounds; Iginla six-one and 210 -- and they led their respective clubs in regular-season scoring.

...
What concerns me most is his shot. He needs to be a more effective shooter -- he'll become far more effective if he can capitalize off the rush with his shot. I don't know where his shot went, but in his draft year he could hammer one-timers on goal and fire lasers.

 
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JBIZ14

Registered User
Nov 22, 2007
6,384
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Lethbridge
Yes, that's a valid argument. Keep in mind that I said that I'd do this trade. I just don't think the World Juniors should be an argument for or against any player. However, it is worth noting that he was recovering from shoulder surgery in his +1 year, and I'm not sure if that demotion thing is even true.
It's not a valid argument because it's not true.
 

beachcomber

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
1,319
527
We won't trade Virtanen for a 10th but will trade McCann (who was seen as the better prospect by the vast majority of HFVan in every h2h poll) + 2nd for Gudbranson

The opinion of the vast majority of HF boards means nothing.
 

Zarpan

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
2,090
185
Vancouver
We won't trade Virtanen for a 10th but will trade McCann (who was seen as the better prospect by the vast majority of HFVan in every h2h poll) + 2nd for Gudbranson

I wonder if that McCann vs. Virtanen poll result is primarily because of relative expectations due to draft positions combined with non-NHL results.

In terms of actual offensive production, McCann and Virtanen were about equal last year. The advanced stats favour Virtanen.
 

denkiteki

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
3,767
6
Taking apart this suggestion...

1st, ignore the players and just the picks... trading #6 from 2 years ago for #10 this year pretty much admits you made a mistake and without a doubt losing value there. Of course we know Benning is horrible at value management so this doesn't matter too much for Benning. What does matter is the fact Benning, who supposely is great at drafting, made a mistake and admits to it in 24 months? That just isn't likely to happen and most GMs won't do this unless the player was clearly a bust or a bust waiting to happen.

Now considering the players involved... i don't believe anyone we can pick @ #10 right now has the same upside as JV. Watch hitman videos before he was drafted for the last 2 years and he'll look better than pretty much anyone you can draft outside the top 3 or 4.

Next consider all the moves we've made more or less have been to "speed up" or "retool" not rebuild. Despite needing to rebuild badly, Benning has been trading away draft picks for unwanted prospects (or not very wanted by their teams) for draft picks. In theory, this is to speed up the rebuilding process (in actuality, we're just throwing draft picks away as more often than not they don't work out). Basically this is the opposed of what Benning has been trying to do and making a move like this would just make Benning look like a bigger idiot/not know what he's doing.
 
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