Viola, Cifu talk about the future of the Panthers (explanation in OP)

[Gnashville]

Nashville was #1 on everyones list not too long ago.

Statements like these just help prove as to why relocation in these markets is not necessary.

Yes, Florida is struggling at the moment. But that doesn't mean they will be in the future.

Absolutely correct any team can turn it around and become a positive for the league. Committed ownership is key to recovery. Hopefully Florida has that now.

 

[sandysan]

Yes I am very confident and my team has never went bankrupt either.

The pens have, your chose not two swap histories/legacies with them.

But if you want to rely on the gin blossoms to keep the lights on, go right ahead. I'm sure that tons of people will confuse the thrashers with the Sens & pens.

 

[sandysan]

Nashville was #1 on everyones list not too long ago.

Statements like these just help prove as to why relocation in these markets is not necessary.

Yes, Florida is struggling at the moment. But that doesn't mean they will be in the future.

Based on what, their historical ability to do well? It's possible that an ownership group could run a team into the ground. Another possibility is that some markets are untenable irrespective of ownership.

Does Florida have serial bad ownership.or is it that the market won't support jockey ever? If you can point to when the panthers met the former requirement for more than a year or series buoyed by bandwagon news you could say " see it works". But you can't so you after 2 decades yang your aspirations on some pie in the sky rosy projections.

 

[Gnashville]

The pens have, your chose not two swap histories/legacies with them.

But if you want to rely on the gin blossoms to keep the lights on, go right ahead. I'm sure that tons of people will confuse the thrashers with the Sens & pens.

Yet both Sens and Pens continue to exist. They went bankrupt with by far better history than my team. Pens have cups and Ottawa has been to the SCF. My team has never been out of the second round and have not even won a division title.
I'm depending on the hockey fans here to support the team. I'm depending on the local owners to support the fans. The concerts are a added bonus. But keep predicting the demise of this franchise and market even Canada's national hero Jim Balsillie has to admit this market is much stronger than he thought.

 

[aqib]

Nashville was #1 on everyones list not too long ago.

Statements like these just help prove as to why relocation in these markets is not necessary.

Yes, Florida is struggling at the moment. But that doesn't mean they will be in the future.

Nashville never struggled this bad. You've just had your 3 worst nights at the gate in franchise history in your last 3 three games. If you average under 11K this year there is no defense.

 

[TheLegend]

Perhaps they threw it their way to try and help them but later realized that sometimes you gotta cut a man loose?

I have no idea how this plays out, the report will be the tipping point.I think everyone knows the status quo IS untenable but its not clear if changing the direction is possible. I credit the owners for trying but at this point the Yoda quote is apt.

The NHL has owed Arizona an all-star game since the '05-'06 one was lost due to the lockout. They've had plenty of chances to repay that debt since then but are still holding off.... even with the sale last year to IA. And Bettman gets asked about it every time he comes here.

Who knows what their reasons for granting it to Florida to begin with. Could very well been they grossly underestimated the situation there... or it was a carrot hung out there to get a new owner..... but even that's being speculative.

 

[angry_treefrog]

Nashville never struggled this bad. You've just had your 3 worst nights at the gate in franchise history in your last 3 three games. If you average under 11K this year there is no defense.

Nashville has never had a track record of on ice failure to keep people away like the Panthers have had.

There have been bad hockey teams in the NHL for a season or two or three, but the Panthers have been the worst team in hockey if you consider the 2000-2014 seasons with only one playoff appearance and many, many very bad teams. The Panthers have not won a playoff series since 1996. The Panthers have been very, very painful to watch.

There are few markets that would not struggle to fill the arena - even those who have had decades to build a following (a luxury the Panthers have not had prior to entering their Dark Ages) - under those circumstances... and even those markets that would still sell out, such as Toronto and Montreal, would see a significant decline in ticket value.

 

[Major4Boarding]

The NHL has owed Arizona an all-star game since the '05-'06 one was lost due to the lockout. They've had plenty of chances to repay that debt since then but are still holding off.... even with the sale last year to IA. And Bettman gets asked about it every time he comes here.

Who knows what their reasons for granting it to Florida to begin with. Could very well been they grossly underestimated the situation there... or it was a carrot hung out there to get a new owner..... but even that's being speculative.

You're not that far off, TL (See page 8 from the link below). You gotta have a carrot first before you can dangle it

Letter from Daly

And as a Mod note, you all better get pertinent responses in short order as we're near thread max capacity and it will be closed.

 

[Fugu]

So the answer on the city subsidy is yes?

Again you can have it one of two ways, you can claim to be a market that stands on its own merits or you can claim the team is solvent off the backs of gin blossoms concerts. If you chose the later, it's a hard sell for the former.

Is the purpose to someday get to being financially successful independent of the gin blossoms or is the status quo the long term plan?

Yes some Canadian teams lose money, but even the ones that do are not loss leaders to get access to arena keys. I ask again is this the zenith of your aspirations?

Maybe I lost track of how we got to this point, but are you suggesting that Nashville is somehow the only on benefiting from the largesse of public funding? The NFL, MLB and NBA have cities and states building facilities for them, even Spring training stadia in some locations. It's fairly difficult to find an operation these days that's not somehow being 'subsidized.'

 

[aqib]

Nashville has never had a track record of on ice failure to keep people away like the Panthers have had.

There have been bad hockey teams in the NHL for a season or two or three, but the Panthers have been the worst team in hockey if you consider the 2000-2014 seasons with only one playoff appearance and many, many very bad teams. The Panthers have not won a playoff series since 1996. The Panthers have been very, very painful to watch.

There are few markets that would not struggle to fill the arena - even those who have had decades to build a following (a luxury the Panthers have not had prior to entering their Dark Ages) - under those circumstances... and even those markets that would still sell out, such as Toronto and Montreal, would see a significant decline in ticket value.

Didn't they make the playoffs 2 years ago, had the first pick in the draft, and are actually off the a decent start this year? I mean if we were talking 13-14K that would be one thing, but you're averaging 9K here. Thats 4K fewer than the 29th team.

 

[flapanthersfan]

Nashville never struggled this bad. You've just had your 3 worst nights at the gate in franchise history in your last 3 three games. If you average under 11K this year there is no defense.

You know who did struggle this bad? the Washington Capitals.

I distinctly remember completely empty sections in the lower bowl during the Glen Hanlon era.

You probably would have moved them too, with your logic.

 

[Gnashville]

Maybe I lost track of how we got to this point, but are you suggesting that Nashville is somehow the only on benefiting from the largesse of public funding? The NFL, MLB and NBA have cities and states building facilities for them, even Spring training stadia in some locations. It's fairly difficult to find an operation these days that's not somehow being 'subsidized.'

It's only a big deal when it's hockey teams in "undeserving" locations.
Forget the fact that in all those leagues you listed, evil revenue sharing exists also and almost every team plays in publicly funded buildings. Even the New York Yankees New building was publicly funded. Public funding of has existed for 50+ years. This is common but in Nashville they are required by the lease to report their so called "subsidy" from the city and the haters always jump on it as that. Naturally of course they fail to mention from where the money comes, for what it is used and conveniently forget to report the paid attendance information which does not fit into the agenda.

 

[TheLegend]

You're not that far off, TL (See page 8 from the link below). You gotta have a carrot first before you can dangle it

Letter from Daly

And as a Mod note, you all better get pertinent responses in short order as we're near thread max capacity and it will be closed.

Thanks for the link M4B...

I noted in one of the Yotes threads (don't know which there's been so many ) I made the suggestion that the scoreboard at Gila River Arena was out-of-date and needed replacement. Might see something similar to that email exchange out here real soon.

But that's for another thread.....as this one's about to explode.

 

[aqib]

You know who did struggle this bad? the Washington Capitals.

I distinctly remember completely empty sections in the lower bowl during the Glen Hanlon era.

You probably would have moved them too, with your logic.

The lowest they got back then was 13.9K you have to dig back to the Denver Rockies to get numbers this bad. Even the Jets in a lame duck season drew better.

 

[sandysan]

Maybe I lost track of how we got to this point, but are you suggesting that Nashville is somehow the only on benefiting from the largesse of public funding? The NFL, MLB and NBA have cities and states building facilities for them, even Spring training stadia in some locations. It's fairly difficult to find an operation these days that's not somehow being 'subsidized.'

I ask because there was, at one point, some consideration as to whether this subsidy would withstand the political winds blowing as the then mayor was campaigning on getting it back ( I think the guy wondering aloud was mcdeen or something close to that) .

I don't know how it all panned out and asked to find ( I think) that its still going on. So the press approach even Stevens with money from the city. If that goes away, what then?

 

[Gnashville]

I ask because there was, at one point, some consideration as to whether this subsidy would withstand the political winds blowing as the then mayor was campaigning on getting it back ( I think the guy wondering aloud was mcdeen or something close to that) .

I don't know how it all panned out and asked to find ( I think) that its still going on. So the press approach even Stevens with money from the city. If that goes away, what then?

Karl Dean has always supported keeping them in Nashville. The money from the city is for arena upkeep and to pay Shea Weber's contract
What if it goes away everywhere? What if the city of Detroit demands the Red Wings pay every cent of their new arena. What if Quebec demands full payment on their arena before allowing a team to play there? I can play the "what if" game also. If the Panthers or Predators were to do what you want and move to Quebec they would be receiving public money (400 million dollars) there also but then it would be OK correct?

 

[Fenway]

The 2000-01 Islanders had some hideous crowds.

I went to this game on Halloween night vs Boston and the crowd was announced as 6,400 and change and there could not have been more than 1,500 people in the rink.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H20000163

 

[flapanthersfan]

The lowest they got back then was 13.9K you have to dig back to the Denver Rockies to get numbers this bad. Even the Jets in a lame duck season drew better.

There's 0% chance those numbers are accurate.

Ask any Caps fans who watched during the Hanlon era what their crowds were like.

There were SECTIONS without ONE PERSON in them in the lower bowl.

You can't give the Panthers (or Coyotes) grief for padding their numbers through giveaways and/or false announced attendance numbers, then ignore those same facts when it comes to other teams....simply because it doesn't support your argument. It's hypocritical.

 

[Pilky01]

The 2000-01 Islanders had some hideous crowds.

I went to this game on Halloween night vs Boston and the crowd was announced as 6,400 and change and there could not have been more than 1,500 people in the rink.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H20000163

Brad Isbister, Oleg Kvasha, Dave Scatchard, Kenny Jonnson, some great old names in that box score.

 

[Fenway]

Brad Isbister, Oleg Kvasha, Dave Scatchard, Kenny Jonnson, some great old names in that box score.

I was also witness to an almost empty United Center on New Year's Eve 2003/4 when the Blackhawks played Vancouver. They announced the crowd as almost 11K but it closer to 3K. It was just sad to see.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H20030559


Anyhow this thread has reached its limit and there is no good reason to continue it at this time.