Vinny Lecavalier

[Sawdalite]

Okay, here's the thing... I think I have an answer that would work and is really simple... too simple... therefore there has to be a major flaw that would make it undoable, or else I cannot imagine why it has not been done. I'm throwing it out there for anyone who is educated in this area to pick apart and explain where I'm going wrong.... Here goes:


We know that the Flyers and Vinny are like oil and water... not a good mix in any way, shape or form... but given a better Cap/Salary deal there has to be a team out there willing to take him on as a missing piece and locker room presence/mentor.

We also know that the Flyers do not want to the Dead Cap Space that would come with retaining Cap/Salary.

I seem to recall that the Current CBA contains a clause in it that allows teams to purchase some Cap Space from teams that have it to spare... teams needing it to reach the Cap Floor without spending any more on salary. The problem is that I don't know the details, and believe that there must be a snag in the details because no team to my knowledge has used that CBA clause yet.

If doable within the Clause Details my proposal is to find TWO teams for the moving of Vinny... One is a team who wants him at a better Cap/Salary price and another who has Cap Space to spare and wants to take in cash while reaching the Cap Floor. Trade Vinny and retain Cap/Salary and then use Comcast's deep pockets to buy back the Cap Space.

I do understand that I'm asking Ed to spend... but he would with biuts and has with Bryz and Danny already to gain Cap Space.

There has to be a flaw in my logic... please find it... it's probably a simple one.

 

[VanFlyer]

Did you expect him to confirm the report? He's not finishing his contract, his body just won't allow him. Hextall would look like an idiot if he bought him out only to have Vinny retire a year later leaving the Flyers stuck with capspace from a player that's not even active.

It's not happening, the Flyers are going through another transition year next year. They have no clear cut prospects that need spots cleared for them. They also don't have any contracts that have to be renewed at least none that are big this offseason. We should also avoid free agency again whether we have the space or not.

The cap is stagnating with the Canadian dollar there's no need to dig yourself into a potential hole when if you show some patience the odds are you'll likely be in a more favorable situation down the road than if you rush to judgement.

I am not familiar enough with the CBA, but it would seem illogical that if a player was to retire after being bought out of a contract that the cap hit would still apply. Isn't that the whole argument with the Pronger LTIR discussion?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I am not familiar enough with the CBA, but it would seem illogical that if a player was to retire after being bought out of a contract that the cap hit would still apply. Isn't that the whole argument with the Pronger LTIR discussion?

The situations aren't comparable at all. Pronger is still an active player technically. His contract counts on the books since he's a plus 35 contract. He would have officially retired long by now if he wasn't getting paid & the Flyers weren't getting cap relief.

If we bought Vinny out & he retires we're still on the hook for the salary owed & the capspace.

 

[Stizzle]

Its not that no one wants him, its that no one wants his contract / service at the cost. Its a horrible value proposition for any NHL franchise, unless you are at the cap floor. The problem with that is that those teams that are at the cap floor are also the basement bunnies in the league and its likely that VLC will not waive his NTC to go to one of those teams.

Obviously this is exactly what I meant. Everyone knows this. It is obvious.

The Flyers will either move him (and Umberger) at the trade deadline or buy them both out in the offseason. There are enough young kids with ELC type contracts that can take both of their spots / minutes.

As others in ITT have said, you are wrong. There is no way we are buying Vinny out this offseason. It makes no sense. No one believes he will finish out the length of his contract here. He will retire sooner or later. It is almost impossible to believe him about honoring his full contract. He is bluffing.

Vinny for Clarkson they hold salary.... (not that I want that but what else would we possibly get from the Leafs for Vinny)

If you believe, as I do, that he will retire at some point, this would be a catastrophic mistake.

 

[VanFlyer]

ok, so the only real option is to just buy him out. I can't see the Flyers being willing to give him a roster spot for two more years. I still stand by the thought of 2.8 of a cap hit for him and Umberger is addition by subraction- regardless of other youngers being ready or the Flyers compete level not being adequate enough.

I just would rather see guys like laughton and akeson in the line-up v. washed up veterans like Umberger and VLC.

 

[Stizzle]

ok, so the only real option is to just buy him out. I can't see the Flyers being willing to give him a roster spot for two more years. I still stand by the thought of 2.8 of a cap hit for him and Umberger is addition by subraction- regardless of other youngers being ready or the Flyers compete level not being adequate enough.

Where are you coming up with 2.8 for both? This is the accurate amounts...

Vincent Lecavalier buyout from CapGeek.com

2015-16: $2,888,889
2016-17: $2,888,889
2017-18: $2,388,889
2018-19: $888,889
2019-20: $888,889
2020-21: $888,889

R.J. Umberger buyout from CapGeek.com

2015-16: $1,600,000
2016-17: $1,600,000
2017-18: $1,500,000
2018-19: $1,500,000

 

[pinedak]

The situations aren't comparable at all. Pronger is still an active player technically. His contract counts on the books since he's a plus 35 contract. He would have officially retired long by now if he wasn't getting paid & the Flyers weren't getting cap relief.

If we bought Vinny out & he retires we're still on the hook for the salary owed & the capspace.

That's not true. Vinny was signed under 35 so we'd be off the hook on cap and salary of he retires. If we buy him out we are on the hook but that's for any player of any age with a standard contract.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That's not true. Vinny was signed under 35 so we'd be off the hook on cap and salary of he retires. If we buy him out we are on the hook but that's for any player of any age with a standard contract.

That was my entire point in separate posts, the poster brought up Pronger for whatever reason in which I said the situations weren't comparable:

The odds of that happening are slim. They'll both be here next year assuming Vinny doesn't get moved or retires. Hextall will likely play the waiting game with Vinny until he realizes he's done. Umberger will likely be bought out in the Summer of 2016.

The Flyers don't need capspace this offseason with no noteworthy players up for extensions. No need to tie up a bunch of dead capspace for the next 4-6 years when they can wait & cut the years down.

Did you expect him to confirm the report? He's not finishing his contract, his body just won't allow him. Hextall would look like an idiot if he bought him out only to have Vinny retire a year later leaving the Flyers stuck with capspace from a player that's not even active.

It's not happening, the Flyers are going through another transition year next year. They have no clear cut prospects that need spots cleared for them. They also don't have any contracts that have to be renewed at least none that are big this offseason. We should also avoid free agency again whether we have the space or not.

The cap is stagnating with the Canadian dollar there's no need to dig yourself into a potential hole when if you show some patience the odds are you'll likely be in a more favorable situation down the road than if you rush to judgement.

The situations aren't comparable at all. Pronger is still an active player technically. His contract counts on the books since he's a plus 35 contract. He would have officially retired long by now if he wasn't getting paid & the Flyers weren't getting cap relief.

If we bought Vinny out & he retires we're still on the hook for the salary owed & the capspace.

 

[VanFlyer]

my bad, brain cramp. I guess what I was trying to say is that their combined buyout is = to one players salary (4.5m). Certainly I can fill the roster spots with the other 4.5 million- or less, making it a wash and the team better. Both are line killers.

 

[VanFlyer]

So, if we buy him out and then he retires at a later point, we are still obligated to the cap hit post his retirement date??

 

[Sawdalite]

So, if we buy him out and then he retires at a later point, we are still obligated to the cap hit post his retirement date??

Yep... once bought out he is owed the CBA required payments and he can sign with another team, go play golf, sit out until a desired situation arises for him, play in another league, etc. ... it is his no matter what he does, as I understand things. Keep in mind that Vinny cannot and will not be able to play all those years he will be paid by TB... he will one day retire, and TB will still be on the hook for a very, very long time.

 

[Prongo]

I don't think we buy him out. Too much money will be on the cap for Hexy to deal with. We can retain salary in a deal and hope he retires after next year and we get off the hook. No more signing forwards that are top 6 paid over 30 though. Either trade for them or draft them within. Im sure we will start hearing things in the rumor mill about him if he continues to be a no show. Hey maybe he pulls a Luongo and tries to get his contract terminated lol.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

for a team that lives on the cap ceiling every season I just cant see it being an option to buy out Vinny and Umberger. The hope is they find a sucker for one if not both. I realize that isn't what folks want to hear but I just cannot see a buyout happening.

 

[pinedak]

I don't think we buy him out. Too much money will be on the cap for Hexy to deal with. We can retain salary in a deal and hope he retires after next year and we get off the hook. No more signing forwards that are top 6 paid over 30 though. Either trade for them or draft them within. Im sure we will start hearing things in the rumor mill about him if he continues to be a no show. Hey maybe he pulls a Luongo and tries to get his contract terminated lol.

Unconditional waivers would be very interesting indeed. It wouldn't even be pocket change to Philly, the best possible scenario actually.

 

[Sawdalite]

Unconditional waivers would be very interesting indeed. It wouldn't even be pocket change to Philly, the best possible scenario actually.

Vinny's No Move Contract precludes that.

 

[VanFlyer]

I am not wrong per se'. What I have is an opinion, just as you do and others on the forum. None of us here are GM's or pro hockey players. Words like "in my opinion", "my belief", "my thought is" go allot further than a blatant "you are wrong"- unless you are a fortune teller, and if so, please give me the numbers for any lottery tomorrow.

 

[VanFlyer]

Yep... once bought out he is owed the CBA required payments and he can sign with another team, go play golf, sit out until a desired situation arises for him, play in another league, etc. ... it is his no matter what he does, as I understand things. Keep in mind that Vinny cannot and will not be able to play all those years he will be paid by TB... he will one day retire, and TB will still be on the hook for a very, very long time.

I did not know that. I had to go look it up. From ESPN.com:

"Tampa will have to pay Lecavalier $32.67 million in the buyout, a source told ESPN.com, which includes an $8 million bonus that had to be paid out in full. The remaining salary is paid out at two-thirds, $24.67 million over the next 14 years."

So the slug is collecting two pay checks.

WTF was Homer thinking on that signing??? So, if everything projects (ie. my assumption that VLC will be bought out this offseason) he will be paid another 12 million by the Flyers. So,44 Million he could be paid to NOT play hockey- AND could even potentially go sign another contract to play!!!

 

[Psuhockey]

I don't think we buy him out. Too much money will be on the cap for Hexy to deal with. We can retain salary in a deal and hope he retires after next year and we get off the hook. No more signing forwards that are top 6 paid over 30 though. Either trade for them or draft them within. Im sure we will start hearing things in the rumor mill about him if he continues to be a no show. Hey maybe he pulls a Luongo and tries to get his contract terminated lol.

Even with salary retained, who is taking him? He is a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league. It was rumored teams wanted salary retained and a pick or prospect to take that contract over the summer and that was after a 20 goal season.

The buyout is practically the same as salary retained anyway with the tack on years being only .900. That's nothing especially when you figure all the elc and bridge contracts this team will be turning over too in the next 4-5 years. I say let him rot one more year as a healthy scratch to see if he will retire. Not like the Flyers are going to be a contender next year either so what's the difference.

 

[GKJ]

Vinny's No Move Contract precludes that.

If Hextall finds someone, even for free, and Vinny enforces his no-move, then he should be told "well, then, hope you enjoy watching games from press boxes, is this how you want to end your career?"

 

[dats81]

I fear the whole situation is ****ed up beyond repair.
Whatever little value he still had last season is long gone. Now they probably wish they would have accepted to retain salary to get rid of him.

 

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

Even with salary retained, who is taking him? He is a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league. It was rumored teams wanted salary retained and a pick or prospect to take that contract over the summer and that was after a 20 goal season.

The buyout is practically the same as salary retained anyway with the tack on years being only .900. That's nothing especially when you figure all the elc and bridge contracts this team will be turning over too in the next 4-5 years. I say let him rot one more year as a healthy scratch to see if he will retire. Not like the Flyers are going to be a contender next year either so what's the difference.

this is my hope.

 

[renberg]

If Hextall finds someone, even for free, and Vinny enforces his no-move, then he should be told "well, then, hope you enjoy watching games from press boxes, is this how you want to end your career?"

It sort of looks like this is what is happening. The rumor from yesterday is that Vinny wasn't allowed to practice with the team.

 

[Embiid]

It sort of looks like this is what is happening. The rumor from yesterday is that Vinny wasn't allowed to practice with the team.

If this is true..it is a shame it has come to this but this team can't afford pity play.....dude was a major detriment on the ice and now having him around even off the ice is like a cancer. Guy needs to retire or be shipped out....somehow.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

It sort of looks like this is what is happening. The rumor from yesterday is that Vinny wasn't allowed to practice with the team.

Where did you see this rumor? That seems quite odd. I also would think that is against the CBA unless he was in some kind of legal trouble, but to say you can't practice because you suck at hockey and we don't want you any more...

Not saying it isn't true. Just seems very strange

 

[FadeToBlack]

NFL teams can suspend players for conduct detrimental to the team... The Flyers could do that to Vinny, but in reality, they own his contract, they control his hockey career... if they don't want him to practice, he ain't practicing. If they don't want him to play, he's sitting his ass in the press box or at home. That's the harsh reality of signing and individual employment contract... you're bound to the terms of the contract as they fall within the CBA, and I'm sure there's a clause for suspending a player from a team for whatever reason the team wants.

The only reason to not do this to a player would be, in a word, honor. If you stonewall Vinny into retiring, it's going to impact your ability to bring in other free agents.