Prospect Info: Ville Heinola, LD, Finland (20th Overall)

[MrBoJangelz71]

It is gratifying and exciting to conclude that Heinola has clearly shown that he can already play(and play well) at the NHL level, and, to conclude that his presence in the lineup already makes us a better team.We can all get behind those arguments!
But, imo at least, neither of these considerations should determine what to do with Heinola after the next few games have passed. That decision should be based exclusively on the organizations assessment of how/where he should play so as to FURTHER his development both offensively and defensively. We do not want Heinola to simply play on our team - we want him to comfortably and confidently be a leader and top 4 guy at minimum. The issue is how best to get him there in the shortest possible timeframe.

Good post and very true, it has to be about what route fully develops his talent the quickest.

With that said, I am starting to believe the NHL might be that route. Until I see him get consistently overwhelmed or in over his head routinely, I think he can fully develop at the NHL level.

He has a high IQ and he’s able to process the game at a pace that allows him to be good while learning. My only contingency is that he has to have a solid partner.

If Buff was to come back I think they would make a perfect pairing, and he would have the physical and mental support on the ice that a 160lbs 18 year old player would need. While Pionk wont provide the physical support of a Buff, he seems to work well with him also.

If we load manage him, maybe sit him out every 5 games to prevent him from hitting a massive wall in the latter part of the season, I think he will gain more for his game and we will be further along in our path to backfilling the holes on our blue line with Heinola staying put.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah, I don't really know why he would be sent back when he's and upgrade to our D lineup, and at least so far has shown that he can play to his strengths with decent minutes on nhl level. ELC slide is of course a good reason, but when it comes to developing isn't it best to play in the highest level league where you're still able to play effectively?

Jets have always done it that way in the past. Not sure if they will follow that this time or not.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It is gratifying and exciting to conclude that Heinola has clearly shown that he can already play(and play well) at the NHL level, and, to conclude that his presence in the lineup already makes us a better team.We can all get behind those arguments!
But, imo at least, neither of these considerations should determine what to do with Heinola after the next few games have passed. That decision should be based exclusively on the organizations assessment of how/where he should play so as to FURTHER his development both offensively and defensively. We do not want Heinola to simply play on our team - we want him to comfortably and confidently be a leader and top 4 guy at minimum. The issue is how best to get him there in the shortest possible timeframe.

That usually means having him play at the highest level he is able to handle. There might be occasional exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule, except this one.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

That usually means having him play at the highest level he is able to handle. There might be occasional exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule.

To disprove the idea that there is always an exception to every rule we only need to find one rule which has no exceptions. As it happens there is a rule that supposedly has no exceptions, hiding in the statement itself.

If all rules have exceptions then even the rule that states that all rules have exceptions must have an exception, or the rule is proven false. But if it does have an exception the rule is also proven false, because then there is a rule without an exception, which is what the rule is saying cannot exist. In fact, it is a rule that is self annihilating.

Hence the statement that all rules have an exception must be false.

From There Is an Exception to Every Rule

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good post and very true, it has to be about what route fully develops his talent the quickest.

With that said, I am starting to believe the NHL might be that route. Until I see him get consistently overwhelmed or in over his head routinely, I think he can fully develop at the NHL level.

He has a high IQ and he’s able to process the game at a pace that allows him to be good while learning. My only contingency is that he has to have a solid partner.

If Buff was to come back I think they would make a perfect pairing, and he would have the physical and mental support on the ice that a 160lbs 18 year old player would need. While Pionk wont provide the physical support of a Buff, he seems to work well with him also.

If we load manage him, maybe sit him out every 5 games to prevent him from hitting a massive wall in the latter part of the season, I think he will gain more for his game and we will be further along in our path to backfilling the holes on our blue line with Heinola staying put.

No need to exaggerate. We know he is not big. 5'11, 178 lbs.

This "our Dmen are too small" theme is being overdone. Sometimes based on the size they were 2-3 years ago. Sami Niku, 6'1, 194 lbs.

Neither of them is big. But NHL Dmen are getting smaller. There are plenty in the league who are smaller than our small Dmen.

Q Hughes - 5'10, 170
Brannstrom - 5'9, 181
Cale Makar - 5'11, 187
Mario Ferraro - 5'11, 185
Mete - 5'9, 187
Girard - 5'10, 170
Fox - 5'11, 181
Just to name a few.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To disprove the idea that there is always an exception to every rule we only need to find one rule which has no exceptions. As it happens there is a rule that supposedly has no exceptions, hiding in the statement itself.

If all rules have exceptions then even the rule that states that all rules have exceptions must have an exception, or the rule is proven false. But if it does have an exception the rule is also proven false, because then there is a rule without an exception, which is what the rule is saying cannot exist. In fact, it is a rule that is self annihilating.

Hence the statement that all rules have an exception must be false.

From There Is an Exception to Every Rule

Fixed it.

 

[ecolad]

Good post and very true, it has to be about what route fully develops his talent the quickest.

With that said, I am starting to believe the NHL might be that route. Until I see him get consistently overwhelmed or in over his head routinely, I think he can fully develop at the NHL level.

He has a high IQ and he’s able to process the game at a pace that allows him to be good while learning. My only contingency is that he has to have a solid partner.

If Buff was to come back I think they would make a perfect pairing, and he would have the physical and mental support on the ice that a 160lbs 18 year old player would need. While Pionk wont provide the physical support of a Buff, he seems to work well with him also.

If we load manage him, maybe sit him out every 5 games to prevent him from hitting a massive wall in the latter part of the season, I think he will gain more for his game and we will be further along in our path to backfilling the holes on our blue line with Heinola staying put.

I agree with some of what you say here - but do have reservations about whether he would best "learn" in the NHL Would he explore what he can and cannot do, without fear of recrimination/discipline when he makes the inevitable mistake or tries something too demanding? Or would he perhaps settle-in and play at a conservative level that he knows will keep him in Maurice`s good books - making only the low risk defensively responsible play and forgoing altogether any riskier offensive plays? Development in critical years could be delayed or in worst case even forgone!

I certainly agree that consideration should be given to keeping Heinola only if he can be mentored by a solid partner.But this subject gets us into speculating about how Maurice will manage his line-up - a big question in my mind. I see very limited development value indeed if Maurice sticks him on the 3rd pairing, with no special teams opportunities.

 

[ecolad]

No need to exaggerate. We know he is not big. 5'11, 178 lbs.

This "our Dmen are too small" theme is being overdone. Sometimes based on the size they were 2-3 years ago. Sami Niku, 6'1, 194 lbs.

Neither of them is big. But NHL Dmen are getting smaller. There are plenty in the league who are smaller than our small Dmen.

Q Hughes - 5'10, 170
Brannstrom - 5'9, 181
Cale Makar - 5'11, 187
Mario Ferraro - 5'11, 185
Mete - 5'9, 187
Girard - 5'10, 170
Fox - 5'11, 181
Just to name a few.

Yes, some very valid information. Have all of these guys stepped from the draft directly into the NHL ,and if so, at what age?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes, some very valid information. Have all of these guys stepped from the draft directly into the NHL ,and if so, at what age?

No, most have not.
Q Hughes - 5'10, 170 - D+2, assuming he sticks
Brannstrom - 5'9, 181 - D+3
Cale Makar - 5'11, 187 - D+3
Mario Ferraro - 5'11, 185 - D+3
Mete - 5'9, 187 - D+2
Girard - 5'10, 170 - D+2
Fox - 5'11, 181 - D+4

There are not that many players, of all stripes, who make the NHL right out of the draft. Usually only 2-3 each year.

 

[scelaton]

No, most have not.
Q Hughes - 5'10, 170 - D+2, assuming he sticks
Brannstrom - 5'9, 181 - D+3
Cale Makar - 5'11, 187 - D+3
Mario Ferraro - 5'11, 185 - D+3
Mete - 5'9, 187 - D+2
Girard - 5'10, 170 - D+2
Fox - 5'11, 181 - D+4

There are not that many players, of all stripes, who make the NHL right out of the draft. Usually only 2-3 each year.

I think the above illustrates the real point here.
Brannstrom and Makar, just as 2 examples, are brilliant young hockey players, with as much or more talent and IQ as Heinola, but both were allowed to and grow develop for 2 seasons before making the jump.
Heinola is not a finished product. If Chevy, in particular, is seriously entertaining keeping him it probably means that Buff is not coming back. But I don't think either is the case.

 

[ecolad]

No, most have not.
Q Hughes - 5'10, 170 - D+2, assuming he sticks
Brannstrom - 5'9, 181 - D+3
Cale Makar - 5'11, 187 - D+3
Mario Ferraro - 5'11, 185 - D+3
Mete - 5'9, 187 - D+2
Girard - 5'10, 170 - D+2
Fox - 5'11, 181 - D+4

There are not that many players, of all stripes, who make the NHL right out of the draft. Usually only 2-3 each year.

Thanks Mort. Those advocating strongly to keep Heinola this season would be well served to keep this in mind. The transition directly to the NHL is unusual for any young D but perhaps even more unusual for those of slight build.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the above illustrates the real point here.
Brannstrom and Makar, just as 2 examples, are brilliant young hockey players, with as much or more talent and IQ as Heinola, but both were allowed to and grow develop for 2 seasons before making the jump.
Heinola is not a finished product. If Chevy, in particular, is seriously entertaining keeping him it probably means that Buff is not coming back. But I don't think either is the case.

Maybe, but not necessarily. The players have something to say about it too. Makar chose to go NCAA for 2 years. Brannstrom went back to Sweden. No idea if that was his choice or not.

I don't see the connection to Buff. But if Heinola stays one of Kulikov or Beaulieu will sit in the PB much of the time. They might rotate and Heinola might take a turn there too. But with injuries, there are probably enough games for all.

No one is saying that Heinola is a finished product. But the usual thing is to let players play at the highest level they can handle. Not always. One reason not to is physical maturity, or the lack of it. That would apply to Heinola and that would be a possible reason for sending him down. But so far, he seems to be handling it OK. That may change when we play some good teams.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Thanks Mort. Those advocating strongly to keep Heinola this season would be well served to keep this in mind. The transition directly to the NHL is unusual for any young D but perhaps even more unusual for those of slight build.

It is also unusual for young F's. It is debatable whether build is a factor or not. I think the more strongly built players are more likely to be given the opportunity though.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I agree with some of what you say here - but do have reservations about whether he would best "learn" in the NHL Would he explore what he can and cannot do, without fear of recrimination/discipline when he makes the inevitable mistake or tries something too demanding? Or would he perhaps settle-in and play at a conservative level that he knows will keep him in Maurice`s good books - making only the low risk defensively responsible play and forgoing altogether any riskier offensive plays? Development in critical years could be delayed or in worst case even forgone!

I certainly agree that consideration should be given to keeping Heinola only if he can be mentored by a solid partner.But this subject gets us into speculating about how Maurice will manage his line-up - a big question in my mind. I see very limited development value indeed if Maurice sticks him on the 3rd pairing, with no special teams opportunities.

Valid points but I think he has shown a confidence to pinch already, and take some risks, with the possibility of repercussions from Maurice.

As well there is the opposite effect to what you stated, by sending him back down, which is he develops a riskier game that doesn’t translate at the NHL level, and inevitably hurts his development.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Debating - will Jets send him down or won't they. Back and forth we go. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. None of us can know.

What would you do?

I lean toward sending him down but I strongly prefer the Moose to going back to Finland. We don't have a definitive answer to which it would be so my answer is deferred depending on that.

 

[Calendal]

That usually means having him play at the highest level he is able to handle. There might be occasional exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule, except this one.

I think in Ville’s case he might not quite have the strength to play in NHL. He can make up for it by using his smarts, but that is probably not the best path for him long term. I tjink he needs to play in a league where he is not too far behind physically to be able to develop that part of his game.

Limited NHL exposure can help show the points he needs to work on.

 

[10Ducky10]

My preference would be
Moose
Jets
Finland

 

[204hockey]

give him his 9 games and ship him out either moose or finland. this season wont be pretty down the stretch if we keep losing and the negativity this city can exude on the team during tough time might not be the best atmosphere for him. hes young no need to rush him

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Debating - will Jets send him down or won't they. Back and forth we go. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. None of us can know.

What would you do?

I lean toward sending him down but I strongly prefer the Moose to going back to Finland. We don't have a definitive answer to which it would be so my answer is deferred depending on that.

Well, since you asked...

I would keep him on the Jets because i think he has enough hockey IQ and self-confidence to get through the rough patches. Plus, if we're going to suck this year, I would rather suck playing up and comers instead of down and outers.

Second choice for me has switched to Finland. I'm beginning to think the Moose are a dead loss as a development path.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well, since you asked...

I would keep him on the Jets because i think he has enough hockey IQ and self-confidence to get through the rough patches. Plus, if we're going to suck this year, I would rather suck playing up and comers instead of down and outers.

Second choice for me has switched to Finland. I'm beginning to think the Moose are a dead loss as a development path.

To my eye he has looked a little less effective in his last couple of games. I really won't decide until I see him against a better offensive team. OTOH, judging him playing against McD and Drai is a little unfair. Maybe he can be eased in through the season. Seeing some PB time and gradually play more and against tougher matchups as the season progresses. I'd be OK with that. But I don't want to rush him. That doesn't usually seem to work out well. Kulikov may be an argument for not rushing. He was drafted 14 OA, put straight into the NHL by Fla and never did live up to expectations.

There is room to doubt the effectiveness of the AHL as a development tool. The 3 top scorers on the Moose right now are Shaw, Griffith and Schilling, none of whom are prospects. But we have seen Chiarot, Morrissey, Connor, Roslovic, Poolman, Niku, Hellebuyck, Lowry and Appleton spend at least 1 season in the AHL getting ready.

 

[Snot Rocket]

Kid is good. Has a mind for the game beyond his years... however his body is still that of a teen.

I am quite sure there has been a lot of hand wringing in the front office, and their track record for development has been good for the most part.
It does the kid no good if he marinates too long with subpar opponents. Too quick, he gets Burmi'd...but to Petan him is also counter productive.

If he sticks, I think it is because he has the potential to be exceptional, already showing that the game is mentally in his grasp at the NHL level. What is scary awesome is his ceiling if that is the case.

Yeah he gets the puck off his stick maybe a touch quick, but he is not built for the rough stuff yet. However that is not a bad thing if he is learning to read and find outlets that quick he will survive until he gets man size.

Buff as a partner WOULD be ideal to help him navigate the year should he stick, but that is not an option currently.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Didn't Maurice say something like the bold? In which case, as a long time Jets viewer, you should have expected the opposite.

So why is the d-man showing skill at this (the high-lighted part of above statement) not playing, dressing? Coach forgot what he was preaching and has resorted to?...losing! Thats was Maurice's decisions are leading to.
This team needs Heinola playing, now, regularly. Better with him than without.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Loving his game. He brings a whole new dimension to the team and he’s really good defensively, especially for an 18 year old.
I’m a little concerned that he was dumping the puck in a lot tonight as he crossed the red line.
Maurice got to him already????

Just following the coaching demands I guess? PoMo tells the media one thing about team purposes and goals, then coaches differently to the players in actuality. Not a good premise for long-term and true team success! Is Heinola being "stifled". Wouldn't be the 1st Jets youngster!

 

[Adam da bomb]

Just following the coaching demands I guess? PoMo tells the media one thing about team purposes and goals, then coaches differently to the players in actuality. Not a good premise for long-term and true team success! Is Heinola being "stifled". Wouldn't be the 1st Jets youngster!

Heinola is not being stifled. He's been playing in all situations on the powerplay as well as on the 3 on 3 in overtime.

 

[GumbyCan2]

I think the above illustrates the real point here.
Brannstrom and Makar, just as 2 examples, are brilliant young hockey players, with as much or more talent and IQ as Heinola, but both were allowed to and grow develop for 2 seasons before making the jump.
Heinola is not a finished product. If Chevy, in particular, is seriously entertaining keeping him it probably means that Buff is not coming back. But I don't think either is the case.

I see the main point to keeping Heinola playing with the Jets is team need and success. The team has shown progression and more success in games with Heinola playing, than when he wasn't. Heinola has proven positive input and is gaining confidence. This team is a "tire-fire" defensively right now anyways.
Taking a positive component out of the mix only leads to less likely success for the team. Why stymie a young players progression when he is producing positive results toward team success? Fear of him not being able to handle the pressure or workload? Deal with that then, don't make decisions of fear of the future, especially when team production is presently negatively affected by not playing a productive 18-year old player.
Or, send him back to Finland, or a lesser league somewhere to "grow up and mature" and hope your current roster can somehow "get by" and "tread-above-water". Then hope for higher draft picks when you bottom out and miss the playoffs. And start over again!
Sounds like a giving in to status quo and hoping for the best possible outcomes. Fingers crossed we do well? I don't agree with this approach, in the case of Ville Heinola. Play him at the NHL because he is showing progression and success in helping the team more than his replacements!