Prospect Info: Ville Heinola, LD, Finland (20th Overall)

[10Ducky10]

I'd rather see him play for the moose.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why should they resist? AHL isn't developing much, unless the player has hard time with culture shock or adjusting to smaller rink. Sure there are a lot of skill and potential in some players, but most of the AHL is just plugs grinding hard, without good coaching which would help players develop.

Liiga is a development league. Where do you think Heinola got his skills in the first place, on the flight over Atlantic?


Finnish here, and I've never heard of such thing.

They get very good coaching and all of it is directed at helping the player make it to the next level. Unlike the coaching in the Euro leagues which is all about winning.

You don't know what a development league means. Liiga is not in the business of developing NHL players. They are in the business of selling tickets to their games. The AHL is owned by the NHL and its only reason to exist is to develop players for the NHL.

 

[Neuf]

Sometimes, you just need your mom

 

[Halberdier]

The allegation isn't being made that Euro out clauses exist.

The topic at hand is ALL Liiga 2nd-7th draft picks must be returned to their teams.

I've taken your position repeatedly and been told over and over again that I'm wrong

Some clarity would be nice.

According to very old news (link below, in Finnish), I can confirm that at least the player transfer contract between NHL and FEL from 2009 to 2013 (btw. the *only* transfer contract during 2009 between NHL and *any* international league) indeed includes a clause that players that are not making it into NHL roster has to be offered the possibility to go back FEL instead of AHL. Obviously players can choose not to do that.

SM-liiga ja NHL sopuun siirtosopimuksista

Sadly I can't find any info about following contract(s) between 2014 and 2019, but I would be surprised if they are completely different now. Btw. in that old news, there was no mention about 1st round draft picks being any different than 2nd to 7th round, but A) that might have been just overlooked by the article or B) that has been changed since.

Heads up for also @sleb and @Daximus

Vesalainen had some custom contract as well as he was able to go to KHL instead. I am pretty sure that's not written in that player transfer contract between NHL and FEL.

 

[Daximus]

So the team has no choice if the player wants an out clause? How the heck did that get in there?

I believe it's been in there since 05/06. I think the Coyotes tried to get around it in 2008 when they tried to sign 2008, 28th overall pick Viktor Tikhonov out of the KHL after drafting him. They tried putting a clause in his contract that stated he could only exercise his European Assignment Clause if it was mutually agreed on by both him and the team and the NHL rejected the contract. The Coyotes signed him and after he was sent down to the AHL he exercised his clause and went back to the KHL before finishing out his ELC with the Coyotes AHL team and then heading back to the KHL once it expired.

As far as I know this clause was added so that European players can get a taste of the North American hockey and if they don't feel like it's a fit right away they can head back home to finish up the season and then come back and finish out their contracts.

 

[Daximus]

According to very old news (link below, in Finnish), I can confirm that at least the player transfer contract between NHL and FEL from 2009 to 2013 (btw. the *only* transfer contract during 2009 between NHL and *any* international league) indeed includes a clause that players that are not making it into NHL roster has to be offered the possibility to go back FEL instead of AHL. Obviously players can choose not to do that.

SM-liiga ja NHL sopuun siirtosopimuksista

Sadly I can't find any info about following contract(s) between 2014 and 2019, but I would be surprised if they are completely different now. Btw. in that old news, there was no mention about 1st round draft picks being any different than 2nd to 7th round, but A) that might have been just overlooked by the article or B) that has been changed since.

Heads up for also @sleb and @Daximus

Vesalainen had some custom contract as well as he was able to go to KHL instead. I am pretty sure that's not written in that player transfer contract between NHL and FEL.

As far as I know any player signed out of a European league has this option. Regardless of which league they came from. Whether it's Liiga, KHL, DEL, NLA, SHL, KHL, Extraliga, Mestis, Allsvensken, NLB or any other league that is based in Europe.

Whats more is the player has the right to add it onto as many years of the contract as they want. An example is Philip Broberg. He has added it onto both the first two years of his ELC.

Philip Broberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

This is likely to prevent Edmonton from ever optioning him to the CHL. Where the Hamilton Bulldogs currently own his rights. As by the 3rd year of his ELC, will make him ineligible to play there due to age.

 

[KingBogo]

I have no problem with Ville's decision. Wish him well and hope he has a great season. Mostly now I look forward to watching him at the WJC.

 

[Daximus]

Here is an example of an older player using the clause.

Dominik Kubalik - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Dominik Kubalik, 24 year old winger, signed out of the NLA, added the clause to his one year ELC he signed with the Hawks. Likely to be able to head back if he doesn't feel like he can keep up in the NHL.

 

[Halberdier]

As far as I know any player signed out of a European league has this option. Regardless of which league they came from. Whether it's Liiga, KHL, DEL, NLA, SHL, KHL, Extraliga, Mestis, Allsvensken, NLB or any other league that is based in Europe.

Whats more is the player has the right to add it onto as many years of the contract as they want. An example is Philip Broberg. He has added it onto both the first two years of his ELC.

Philip Broberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

This is likely to prevent Edmonton from ever optioning him to the CHL. Where the Hamilton Bulldogs currently own his rights. As by the 3rd year of his ELC, will make him ineligible to play there due to age.

You might be right, and it might be the situation now.

However, as of 2009, that was true only for FEL players.

 

[sleb]

You don't know what a development league means.

Wow. Just wow.

Your whole post was so off, it's comical. Then again, I'm guessing you're living in the US/CAN media bubble. Liiga is a development league nowadays, and doing a fine job at that. Maybe you should update your book of hockey nonsense to newer version?

I know I should've just let your ridiculous and uninformed blabbering go, but jeez.

 

[MoeTheHobo]

Sometimes, you just need your mom

This is actually an overlooked factor. It must be very tough for an 18 year old to move that far away from his family and the time difference doesn't help with communication either.
I think Laine's mum moved to Winnipeg for a year when he was a rookie

 

[Adam da bomb]

100% better with player developting, also less traveling

And actually, Lukko's defence squad is ridiculously good at Liiga level, would be top8 in the KHL also. Basicly all members are (B)national team level, at this point their 7nd dmen is Lukas Klok who play year after year at Czech National Team at EHTs.

I believe Ville play much less in Liiga than he played in NHL. That's something.

I see him 3rd best offensive* defender in Lukko.

*That's his primary role in Liiga.

So that’s gotta be bad for his development right?? Vs staying with moose and being the top guy.

 

[Halberdier]

They get very good coaching and all of it is directed at helping the player make it to the next level. Unlike the coaching in the Euro leagues which is all about winning.

You don't know what a development league means. Liiga is not in the business of developing NHL players. They are in the business of selling tickets to their games. The AHL is owned by the NHL and its only reason to exist is to develop players for the NHL.

Liiga is nowadays a bit both. They are obviously selling tickets and so on, but mainly for tax reasons good players tend to go SEL, KHL, NHL or to some Central European teams.

NHL is paying transfer money for FEL Teams for every player they acquire, and while that money doesn't sound much (240 000 [I guess USD and not EUR]) per player, it's actually pretty big money and equals to what they pay for their biggest stars in FEL.

Back in the day FEL was definitely not a development league, but during last 25 years or so, it has gradually become more and more like a development league.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Wow. Just wow.

Your whole post was so off, it's comical. Then again, I'm guessing you're living in the US/CAN media bubble. Liiga is a development league nowadays, and doing a fine job at that. Maybe you should update your book of hockey nonsense to newer version?

I know I should've just let your ridiculous and uninformed blabbering go, but jeez.

The AHL exists entirely to develop players for the NHL. Nearly every NHL teams has a farm team, composed strictly of their own NHL draft picks, coached by a staff hand selected and paid by each farms teams parent club.

Each teams roster is rounded out by veterans, but only so many are allowed to dress each game.

The AHL is totally a developmental league for the NHL.

Who is Liiga developing players for? The KHL? The SEL?

You're saying outside interests from other leagues are affecting roster decisions & ice time in Liiga?

Liiga is nowadays a bit both. They are obviously selling tickets and so on, but mainly for tax reasons good players tend to go SEL, KHL, NHL or to some Central European teams.

NHL is paying transfer money for FEL Teams for every player they acquire, and while that money doesn't sound much (240 000 [I guess USD and not EUR]) per player, it's actually pretty big money and equals to what they pay for their biggest stars in FEL.

Back in the day FEL was definitely not a development league, but during last 25 years or so, it has gradually become more and more like a development league.

Regardless, it's not like the AHL. Liiga isn't being staffed by SEL & KHL coaches for specific teams with winning being a secondary concern & these teams are not farm clubs with roster belonging entirely to a parent club.

I doubt Mort meant offence, and if the FEL has changed its' mindset, it's certainly not to the degree the AHL exists as a developmental league.

 

[Hunter368]

Keep it to commenting on posts, personal insults will get you an infraction and your post deleted. So if you want your opinion heard follow the rules.

 

[Daximus]

You might be right, and it might be the situation now.

However, as of 2009, that was true only for FEL players.

As far as I can tell all Euro players could use it. Many KHL players used the clause going back to as early as 2006. Even some SHL players.

 

[Hunter368]

I have no problem with Ville's decision. Wish him well and hope he has a great season. Mostly now I look forward to watching him at the WJC.

Agreed

 

[ijuka]

Heinola said that it was tougher to play in AHL than NHL because the game's less systematic over there.

TBH, still don't get why he didn't get more ice time and a bigger role with Jets. He still is #3 in D scoring in spite of playing half the others' games.

 

[Duke749]

Heinola said that it was tougher to play in AHL than NHL because the game's less systematic over there.

TBH, still don't get why he didn't get more ice time and a bigger role with Jets. He still is #3 in D scoring in spite of playing half the others' games.

Because it’s about his long term development for him. Not for the team. It’s not a complicated concept. He’s 18. He needs some natural growth and maturation.