Ville de Québec Part X: Pousse mais pousse égal Gary! (Mod warning post #774)

[Killion]

See the responses below yours, Killion, nobody is guaranteed a franchise by replacing an existing arena with a new one, ie Detroit's going to their 4th when their arena is completed replacing JLA, which according to the DFP, will face the same fate as the current Colisee there in QC. We've seen multi-purpose arenas that were opened in the late '70s, face the same issues that Le Colisee is facing... Hartford, Springfield, and Portland have all renovated their home arenas to attempt to "compete" MUCH the same way a newer version of the Colisee will in QC.

The NHL has also stated that relocation isn't happening anytime soon, and if Expansion is on the horizon, that's a option further down the road.

Well sure enough HUTCH. But if just "hockey specific" that old Colisee could suffice & live on no problem with upgrades & retrofits for Junior, Minor Pro. They couldve built themselves a massive live music venue & arts center entirely separate from an arena but obviously there are economies of scale to consider and a multi-purpose including hockey facility just made more sense. Particularly as they are indeed seriously courting the NHL to win back a franchise. Just "how far down the road" Expansion might be we just dont know, but an announcement could come as early as this June for startup in 2015/16 or next June for 2016/17.... and never mind the controversies still swirling in Arizona & South Florida (that deal with Broward County far from being done as details leak out). What we have here is a moving target. No ones really sure what exactly is in store but for the NHL who can & does control Expansion.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Well sure enough HUTCH. But if just "hockey specific" that old Colisee could suffice & live on no problem with upgrades & retrofits for Junior, Minor Pro. They couldve built themselves a massive live music venue & arts center entirely separate from an arena but obviously there are economies of scale to consider and a multi-purpose including hockey facility just made more sense. Particularly as they are indeed seriously courting the NHL to win back a franchise. Just "how far down the road" Expansion might be we just dont know, but an announcement could come as early as this June for startup in 2015/16 or next June for 2016/17.... and never mind the controversies still swirling in Arizona & South Florida (that deal with Broward County far from being done as details leak out). What we have here is a moving target. No ones really sure what exactly is in store but for the NHL who can & does control Expansion.

I doubt the above statement, Killion, based off GordonGraham's response, it just makes prudent sense to replace Le Colisee, it's already been retrofitted likely numerous times since the COMSAT Acquisition of the Nordiques ie the Citadelles and the Ramparts, the Ramparts might well be the tenant in a newer, modernized Colisee, tbh.

 

[powerstuck]

I doubt the above statement, Killion, based off GordonGraham's response, it just makes prudent sense to replace Le Colisee, it's already been retrofitted likely numerous times since the COMSAT Acquisition of the Nordiques ie the Citadelles and the Ramparts, the Ramparts might well be the tenant in a newer, modernized Colisee, tbh.

May, and may not. Remparts are partly owned by André Desmarais, from Desmarais Family, owners of Power Corp...enemy of Quebecor and Peladeau Family.

While enemy is a big word...lets say that no one in Quebec with a little sanity believes that Desmarais Family could own a NHL franchise ($ they could, among the richest families in Canada) and have it play in an Quebecor/Peladeau exploited/managed arena.

 

[Fugu]

Not sure if this got posted earlier, but I just saw it in a Shoalts article:

Bettman had a similar answer when asked about Pierre Karl Peladeau’s decision to run in the Quebec provincial election for the sovereigntist Parti Québécois. Peladeau, the former president and CEO of media giant Quebecor, has been considered a prospective owner if the NHL chooses to put an expansion team in Quebec City.
“You are assuming that there was something in place that changed,†Bettman said, repeating that the league is not contemplating a formal expansion process right now. “Quebecor has, on an ongoing basis, expressed interest. I wish Mr. Peladeau well in his next endeavour, but to the extent that Quebecor or somebody in Quebec City might or might not be interested, that didn’t change.â€

Doesn't really reveal much, but it is a Bettman quote...

 

[Killion]

Doesn't really reveal much, but it is a Bettman quote...

Yep. Attack the premise Gary. "Your assuming that something was in place that changed". Master of obfuscation. Lets just ignore the $300M+ arena going up in QC, Marche Bleu, his own comments about "righting a wrong" and Quebecors recent expenditure of well over $1B on the french language broadcast rights for the NHL shall we? Nope. Nothin ta see here. People just assume way too much apparently... according to Gary Bettman... .

 

[Nordskull]

Yep. Attack the premise Gary. "Your assuming that something was in place that changed". Master of obfuscation. Lets just ignore the $300M+ arena going up in QC, Marche Bleu, his own comments about "righting a wrong" and Quebecors recent expenditure of well over $1B on the french language broadcast rights for the NHL shall we? Nope. Nothin ta see here. People just assume way too much apparently... according to Gary Bettman... .

It's the same guy on the right, isnt it?

Who's the guy on left and what were they doing?

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Yep. Attack the premise Gary. "Your assuming that something was in place that changed". Master of obfuscation. Lets just ignore the $300M+ arena going up in QC, Marche Bleu, his own comments about "righting a wrong" and Quebecors recent expenditure of well over $1B on the french language broadcast rights for the NHL shall we? Nope. Nothin ta see here. People just assume way too much apparently... according to Gary Bettman... .

He never said that.

 

[stchamp98]

He never said that.

I'm pretty sure you're right on that. Tim Leiweke said it in an article I found online from October but I can't seem to find anywhere that Bettman said it.

 

[Ugmo]

He never said that.

Wha? I'm pretty sure I've seen the very video in which he says that. He doesn't specifically say "We have to right a wrong in Quebec City", but the context was clear.

Edit:

6:30 in this video: "... go back and fix some things we weren't able to fix before...":



And 2:20 in this video, where he clearly implies that QC (and Winnipeg) would be fine NHL markets if they had a building and an owner:

 

[Yukon Joe]

He never said that.

I'm 99% sure he used the phrase "righting a wrong", but that it wasn't quite so definitive as some like to say. I think he used wriggle worlds like "where possible".

Edit: here we go - discussing the return to Winnipeg:

To be able to come back to, if you will, right a wrong, that's always an extraordinary thing

http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=206862bd-cdf3-4dd1-b62f-a89684d02061

So he's saying it was nice to be able to right a wrong, but wasn't stating that it was a wrong that must be corrected.

 

[Killion]

So he's saying it was nice to be able to right a wrong, but wasn't stating that it was a wrong that must be corrected.

Bettman & Daly both very careful about what they say, each capable of finishing the others sentences.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

6:30 in this video: "... go back and fix some things we weren't able to fix before..."

That's not the same thing as 'righting a wrong'.

 

[Ugmo]

That's not the same thing as 'righting a wrong'.

a) This is nitpicking. It's essentially exactly the same thing.

b) Look at Yukon Joe's post above. He literally said "right a wrong" with regard to Winnipeg. In view of his remarks in the two videos I posted, it is reasonable to assume he has the same view of QC as he has of Winnipeg.

 

[Killion]

That's not the same thing as 'righting a wrong'.

This is nitpicking.

Indeed it is Ugmo.... You're absolutely splitting hairs Buck Aki. Semantics, interpretation. If you choose to interpret what he said alternatively to what I & others have, that is your prerogative. When is a proof a proof I guess huh?... when a proof's a proof, it's a proof. One of my favorite Prime Ministers. Jean Chretian. Couldnt speak either official language properly but like Bettman, obfuscated, painted with a broad brush, talks out of both corners of his mouth at the same time occasionally. Always challenges his interrogators premise. Highly amusing yes?... I find it so, and to argue over such foolishness not something we're about to be engaging in here.

 

[Kimota]

If you mean that Chrétien was an idiot like Bettman, yes.

 

[mikelvl]

That's not the same thing as 'righting a wrong'.

What the hell is your point?!

He specifically offered promising comments to the possibility of returning to Winnipeg and Quebec City. Brampton, on the other hand, was unequivocally shot down by the NHL. Read the tea leaves. If Quebec City didn't get promising feedback from Bettman, Daly etc., they wouldn't be building an arena. As to when a return is going to happen, that is a whole nother question.

 

[Fugu]

What the hell is your point?!

He specifically offered promising comments to the possibility of returning to Winnipeg and Quebec City. Brampton, on the other hand, was unequivocally shot down by the NHL. Read the tea leaves. If Quebec City didn't get promising feedback from Bettman, Daly etc., they wouldn't be building an arena. As to when a return is going to happen, that is a whole nother question.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet Aki Berg didn't listen to the second clip.

Let's move on though. Pretty established now that Bettman said he would consider the places the NHL had been before IF the reasons that necessitated the earlier move were no longer issues, and perhaps preferentially to new locations.

 

[Killion]

If you mean that Chrétien was an idiot like Bettman, yes.

... Le p'tit gars de Long Island. Brothers from different Mothers. Sure beats being nicknamed Boubou
Macoutes, Lulu or Le Frise'. Not sure being called Curly of 3 Stooges fame exactly complimentary huh?.

 

[Nordskull]

... Le p'tit gars de Long Island. Brothers from different Mothers. Sure beats being nicknamed Boubou
Macoutes, Lulu or Le Frise'. Not sure being called Curly of 3 Stooges fame exactly complimentary huh?.

I love how you tried to make an é with your english keyboard

 

[Scandale du Jour]

An anti-Québec piece by... Alain Crête.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/lnh/l-expansion-peut-attendre-1.1117094

It basically says that the NHL has no reason/intention to expand because it never has been as healthy as it is now and it wants to give time to franchises like Florida and Phoenix to hit their stride before the do expand. However, he does say that the NHL seem much eager to get into Seattle (even more eager than the local groups interest in a team). Oh, and he also says that Vegas is ahead of us.

God I hate Bell.

 

[Stanley Cup]

An anti-Québec piece by... Alain Crête.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/lnh/l-expansion-peut-attendre-1.1117094

It basically says that the NHL has no reason/intention to expand because it never has been as healthy as it is now and it wants to give time to franchises like Florida and Phoenix to hit their stride before the do expand. However, he does say that the NHL seem much eager to get into Seattle (even more eager than the local groups interest in a team). Oh, and he also says that Vegas is ahead of us.

God I hate Bell.

Meh all he does is quote Shoalts. He doesn't prove he has any knowledge of the situation.

 

[Nordskull]

Meh all he does is quote Shoalts. He doesn't prove he has any knowledge of the situation.

Yeah but he's got no obligation to do so.

Its just loyalty to its main employer.

 

[Killion]

I love how you tried to make an é with your english keyboard

Ca trippe tsu?... Je nais pas eu autant de plasir depuis que le Funiculaire est tombe en
panne et j'ai ete bloque pendant de hevre a mi-hauteur d'une jeune femme de Nouvo St-Roch.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Meh all he does is quote Shoalts. He doesn't prove he has any knowledge of the situation.

I know, but that's still disgusting from Bell.

- Ask a well-respected "Nordique guy" to do a piece saying they won't come back.

- Be as vague as possible, use as little info as possible but spin it in a way that means: NO NORDIQUES.

- Write as though you HOPE it happens but think it won't (basically you are sympathetic to the cause, but you think it won't happen).

Sometimes I wish I hadn't studied communication/writing

 

[dennilfloss]

I love how you tried to make an é with your english keyboard

What I use is Num Lock + Alt 0233 (on the numerical pad of the keyboard) = é.

http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm