Confirmed with Link: [VGK/AZ] Coyotes acquire a 2023 5th round pick and Shea Weber from Vegas for Dysin Mayo

[hbk]

not much more obscure in pro sports than a Coyote fan.

Doesn’t help when the athetic guts their staff including the only legitimate journalist who covers the team and the only articles they choose to write are hatchet jobs by the best friend of the sister of the fired GM who just magically left out sone details that didn’t support the desired narrative.

Honestly we find it hilarious when fans from other teams come here to tell us how we should feel about things. You have no idea but we appear to be on a good path with some hope. Need to win a vote in May. That’s the priority.

 

[Magonus1703]

Wait what. Isn't 8M for 4 years hell of a lot in caphit? People were talking about how it takes at least a first rounder to take 25% of Karlsson's caphit which is 2,875M for 5 years. I stupid, I no understand.

 

[rt]

Wait what. Isn't 8M for 4 years hell of a lot in caphit? People were talking about how it takes at least a first rounder to take 25% of Karlsson's caphit which is 2,875M for 5 years. I stupid, I no understand.

LTIR

 

[Magonus1703]

LTIR

LTIR affects cap floor but not cap ceiling?

 

[rt]

LTIR affects cap floor but not cap ceiling?

I can speak generally about it.

Trading Weber did not free up any cap space or even a roster spot for Vegas. Dumping him only helps them during in the off-season when they are allowed exceed the upper cap limit by a certain amount.

So this really has very limited value to Vegas. Which is why they didn’t have to pay much to dump him.

Meanwhile, Ottawa had to give up a MUCH better pick to dump Zaitsev even though his cap hit is smaller than Weber’s and there are fewer years remaining in his deal. He’s not on LTIR so he impacts the cap.

Another consideration is insurance, and the fact that Weber’s deal was front-loaded, and the fact that Mayo is on a one-way contract, rather than a two-way. It all amounts to Arizona actually having to pay out less actual cash to Weber than they would have to Mayo. They saved real dollars.

If they don’t place Weber on LTIR he will count against the cap. Not likely to be a problem for AZ. And, in fact, should allow them to have a payroll lower than the actual cap floor. That’s more convoluted, though, and we don’t know for sure if that’s the plan. It’s an option now, however. Which is kind of a benefit.

 

[IrishFin]

Since Schmaltz is owed 7.5, 8.5, and 8.5 over the duration of this Weber contract, I wonder if this deal was also made to help offset that backloaded contract some so he can be kept. It may have made this deal more appealing than other cap dump options where more money is owed.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This move combined with the rumors of Bill Armstrong not wanting any salary in return for Chychrun is not a good look.

Cost savings and spending money smartly is the exact definition of BA's job. The "good look" thing is wholly irrelevant.

 

[Jakey53]

I can speak generally about it.

Trading Weber did not free up any cap space or even a roster spot for Vegas. Dumping him only helps them during in the off-season when they are allowed exceed the upper cap limit by a certain amount.

So this really has very limited value to Vegas. Which is why they didn’t have to pay much to dump him.

Meanwhile, Ottawa had to give up a MUCH better pick to dump Zaitsev even though his cap hit is smaller than Weber’s and there are fewer years remaining in his deal. He’s not on LTIR so he impacts the cap.

Another consideration is insurance, and the fact that Weber’s deal was front-loaded, and the fact that Mayo is on a one-way contract, rather than a two-way. It all amounts to Arizona actually having to pay out less actual cash to Weber than they would have to Mayo. They saved real dollars.

If they don’t place Weber on LTIR he will count against the cap. Not likely to be a problem for AZ. And, in fact, should allow them to have a payroll lower than the actual cap floor. That’s more convoluted, though, and we don’t know for sure if that’s the plan. It’s an option now, however. Which is kind of a benefit.

Did they not trade for Weber for cap reasons? If Chych, Ghost and who knows who else is traded, the Yote's may need Weber's contract to hit the cap floor. I think that's how it works.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

no, I understand that approach. Makes sense. What I am thinking about is the apparency that the new stadium approval ( or not) in Tempe and the timing thereof are both very critical to BA’s plan ( as it appears to me), and that is a lot of moving parts = risk. I guess the problems that caused the team to leave Glendale were a curveball. Or maybe not ?

Look, I know everyone wants to find patterns in the chaos. It's no mistake that we live in a world filled with conspiracy theories.

But the Glendale stuff came down to one thing, and one thing only - the Coyotes and the NHL did not want to be there unless the city paid them to stay. They wanted out the minute Jerry Moyes got his meaty trucker hands on the franchise and used it for tax writeoffs while bitching about money to the press. They only stayed because of the subsidies, and once those dried up, they were packing their shit.

The blunt fact is that both Glendale and Meruelo were looking for an excuse for a divorce, which is why absolutely nothing about the team's departure resulted in any sort of haggling, court dates, or etc.

 

[RemoAZ]

Look, I know everyone wants to find patterns in the chaos. It's no mistake that we live in a world filled with conspiracy theories.

But the Glendale stuff came down to one thing, and one thing only - the Coyotes and the NHL did not want to be there unless the city paid them to stay. They wanted out the minute Jerry Moyes got his meaty trucker hands on the franchise and used it for tax writeoffs while bitching about money to the press. They only stayed because of the subsidies, and once those dried up, they were packing their shit.

The blunt fact is that both Glendale and Meruelo were looking for an excuse for a divorce, which is why absolutely nothing about the team's departure resulted in any sort of haggling, court dates, or etc.

With one exception: The city would give Meruelo a sweetheart land deal around Westgate to stay. Problem is the land is pretty much already spoken for or sold. They weren't going to sell him Westgate for peanuts and tax subsidies and GoDaddy guy had already bought it anyway right? If the GoDaddy guy was just a damn hockey fan this all would have been solved.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

With one exception: The city would give Meruelo a sweetheart land deal around Westgate to stay. Problem is the land is pretty much already spoken for or sold. They weren't going to sell him Westgate for peanuts and tax subsidies and GoDaddy guy had already bought it anyway right? If the GoDaddy guy was just a damn hockey fan this all would have been solved.

Speaking as someone who worked with GoDaddy guy in another sport, I think the expectation of a tidy solution is wildly overblown.

 

[rt]

Did they not trade for Weber for cap reasons? If Chych, Ghost and who knows who else is traded, the Yote's may need Weber's contract to hit the cap floor. I think that's how it works.

Possibly but it necessarily. They now have that flexibility where the floor no longer has to even be considered.

What we don’t know is just how low the actual cash budget for player salary will be. In theory, the Weber deal allows the team to get that budget ridiculously low. And that’s what all the Pearl clutching, alarmist, cry baby, Karen’s online are shrieking about. But we aren’t yet sure if that’s warranted. We won’t know until October.

 

[hbk]

Wait what. Isn't 8M for 4 years hell of a lot in caphit? People were talking about how it takes at least a first rounder to take 25% of Karlsson's caphit which is 2,875M for 5 years. I stupid, I no understand.

We actually saved $ on what we are paying Mayo (on the farm) and what we have to pay Weber after insurance. The cap hit ensures we hit the cap floor while we are running largely on entry level deals and ensures we don't have to look / take bad cap hits with more salary attached in any trades.

 

[TheLegend]

Look, I know everyone wants to find patterns in the chaos. It's no mistake that we live in a world filled with conspiracy theories.

But the Glendale stuff came down to one thing, and one thing only - the Coyotes and the NHL did not want to be there unless the city paid them to stay. They wanted out the minute Jerry Moyes got his meaty trucker hands on the franchise and used it for tax writeoffs while bitching about money to the press. They only stayed because of the subsidies, and once those dried up, they were packing their shit.

The blunt fact is that both Glendale and Meruelo were looking for an excuse for a divorce, which is why absolutely nothing about the team's departure resulted in any sort of haggling, court dates, or etc.

Something Friedman wrote in one of the 32’s not long not ago plays into this.

The group who had looked at getting a second expansion team in the Toronto area had looked into buying the Coyotes before that. Only after they looked at real estate options around Westgate they quickly backed out of it.

It’s also been rumored Meruelo looked into the same thing following his purchase of the Coyotes as well but at this point, the only available real estate. I believe XG even made references to it a couple of times.

So it does get back to the day Ellman let Moyes take the Coyotes off his hands the franchise was done in Glendale.

 

[TheLegend]

With one exception: The city would give Meruelo a sweetheart land deal around Westgate to stay. Problem is the land is pretty much already spoken for or sold. They weren't going to sell him Westgate for peanuts and tax subsidies and GoDaddy guy had already bought it anyway right? If the GoDaddy guy was just a damn hockey fan this all would have been solved.

The only available real estate left near Westgate is/was owned by Glendale.

And the Zamboni riding “Mayor 1” wasn’t going to part with it.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

That’s what I’m talking about! We do so many that I even forgot one!

I just wanna have a normal team with a normal arena that wants to get good players to win a stanley cup

Sounds like you want to move!

 

[hbk]

Something Friedman wrote in one of the 32’s not long not ago plays into this.

The group who had looked at getting a second expansion team in the Toronto area had looked into buying the Coyotes before that. Only after they looked at real estate options around Westgate they quickly backed out of it.

It’s also been rumored Meruelo looked into the same thing following his purchase of the Coyotes as well but at this point, the only available real estate. I believe XG even made references to it a couple of times.

So it does get back to the day Ellman let Moyes take the Coyotes off his hands the franchise was done in Glendale.

i know that this sucks to say out loud but moving this team to Markham Ontario and they win the cup (or win a round in the playoffs) would be another way for this franchise to stick it to Toronto once again. I find humor in this. I apologize.

 

[RemoAZ]

Speaking as someone who worked with GoDaddy guy in another sport, I think the expectation of a tidy solution is wildly overblown.

Well I don't know anything about him so can't comment on the guy other than he bought Westgate and seemed to have a lot of money. Having Westgate and the Coyotes together was the original plan for the project and would have made it work. Westgate is thriving now. Even the arena just signed a new agreement with the management company. Looks like they are even going to do well.

 

[Schemp]

i know that this sucks to say out loud but moving this team to Markham Ontario and they win the cup (or win a round in the playoffs) would be another way for this franchise to stick it to Toronto once again. I find humor in this. I apologize.

That's why a lot of us like Buffalo and hope they succeed.

 

[Schemp]

We won’t know until October.

We'll get an indication after the VOTE!
One of our problems is GMBA is terrible with negotiating contracts.

 

[TheLegend]

Well I don't know anything about him so can't comment on the guy other than he bought Westgate and seemed to have a lot of money. Having Westgate and the Coyotes together was the original plan for the project and would have made it work. Westgate is thriving now. Even the arena just signed a new agreement with the management company. Looks like they are even going to do well.

If TED isn’t a reality… they’ll probably barely hold their own. They’re going to rely on that massive resort going in at L101 and Cardinals Way to bring in the tax income.

But then again that resort will be competing with DDA for events too.

And everyone so far has avoided the elephant in the room that is the millions of gallons of water that the resort will go through annually….. with a pending drought situation.

The irony of that is… the original complaint about Westgate and the Coyotes was it caused the water bill rates to jump drastically in Glendale.



AND…… If TED happens….. well…. all bets are off.

 

[TheLegend]