Confirmed with Link: Verbeek new Griffins GM

[Revenge of Gru]

Over-ripe quickly becomes rotten.

I sure hope Yzerman and Verbeek aren't as stupid as Holland was with this development strategy.

Both Verbeek and Yzerman learned their craft from Holland. Yzerman always took his time with prospects. Remember the Drouin fiasco? I wouldn't be surprised if Raymond spent not one but 2 years in GR.

 

[MBH]

citation needed.

Bananas on my kitchen counter.

Kindl.
Smith.
Pulkinnen.
Mursak.
Almqvist.

 

[Henkka]

Ras only has had small stints in the AHL, otherwise has been on the Wings.

Rasmussen was whole season 2019-20 in AHL (no NHL games, and was also injured)

***

It's still the thing that people can't get over the cases of Nyquist and Tatar. Team was old there was that desperate need for youth.

Tatar started as 18-year old in AHL. Played 4 full seasons there, then at 5th season he did become NHL regular, as 23-year old. Exactly same aged as Datsyuk became NHL regular.

Nyquist started there as 20-year-old, played 3 seasons there and became NHL regular as 24-year old.

Henrik Zetterberg became NHL regular as 22-year old.
Pavel Datsyuk became NHL regular as 23-year old.
Tomas Tatar became NHL regular as 23-year old.
Gustav Nyquist became NHL regular as 24-year old.

It's not that far off between those. Others were overripened on their National leagues. And Tatar + Nyquist never had the same talent level.

 

[Gniwder]

Both Verbeek and Yzerman learned their craft from Holland. Yzerman always took his time with prospects. Remember the Drouin fiasco? I wouldn't be surprised if Raymond spent not one but 2 years in GR.

Kinda ironic when neither Stevie or Pat spent any time in the AHL.

Also, I didn't realize the Little Ball of Hate was such a PIM machine. Holy cow did he manage to rack up some minutes.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kinda ironic when neither Stevie or Pat spent any time in the AHL.

Also, I didn't realize the Little Ball of Hate was such a PIM machine. Holy cow did he manage to rack up some minutes.

I don't remember Verbeek in his NJD days but in Hartford he was a bit of a psycho. I guess he had to be as a little guy that fought for every inch of ice he had.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't remember Verbeek in his NJD days but in Hartford he was a bit of a psycho. I guess he had to be as a little guy that fought for every inch of ice he had.

Being a Caps fan I watched a lot of Patrick Division games, and I don't remember much about him back then. The Devils were a cellar team, so it's the equivalent of watching the Wings now. Nobody gave two shits until Scott Stevens showed up (via arbitration for Blues stealing Shanny without having the picks to do so).

Hopefully Seider is our Stevens.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Kinda ironic when neither Stevie or Pat spent any time in the AHL.

Also, I didn't realize the Little Ball of Hate was such a PIM machine. Holy cow did he manage to rack up some minutes.

Stevie probably understands how hard it was being tossed to the wolves and he was way better than the kids we have in the system. Conditioning is better and players are bigger and stronger now. It's even harder for an 18 year old than it was back then.

 

[Gniwder]

Stevie probably understands how hard it was being tossed to the wolves and he was way better than the kids we have in the system. Conditioning is better and players are bigger and stronger now. It's even harder for an 18 year old than it was back then.

At the same time, the prospects are coming in with better conditioning, and they're also bigger and stronger. I don't see a reason to hold Veleno back, he needs to take the next step. Maybe Raymond, but I think Berggren is as big as he's going to be.

If anything, I think Veleno would benefit more from working with the Wings' trainer than GR, he'll be a serious wrecking ball then.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Hopefully Seider is our Stevens.

I hope not.

That guy was the dirtiest hitter I have ever watched in the NHL.

But everything else he did, ok, I gotcha.

 

[Gniwder]

I hope not.

That guy was the dirtiest hitter I have ever watched in the NHL.

But everything else he did, ok, I gotcha.

Clean hitting version of Stevens then, lol.

Seider does Bettman legal hits, so I'm not too worried. I've watched some videos and I think I saw 2 questionable hits out of dozens that he's done. Questionable only because he got a piece of the guy's face, but not primary point of contact. He hits square in the shoulder/chest even with smaller players, which is quite the talent considering his height.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Bananas on my kitchen counter.

Kindl.
Smith.
Pulkinnen.
Mursak.
Almqvist.

5th, 6th, 7th round picks and two d-men with huge issues to their game trying to break onto a roster that had Lidström, Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski, Ericsson etc.

 

[Henkka]

Clean hitting version of Stevens then, lol.

Seider does Bettman legal hits, so I'm not too worried. I've watched some videos and I think I saw 2 questionable hits out of dozens that he's done. Questionable only because he got a piece of the guy's face, but not primary point of contact. He hits square in the shoulder/chest even with smaller players, which is quite the talent considering his height.

Yep. He could be dirty with his cross-check or hitting against the boards, but he always avoids the head contact. He targets only the body. And I think that's exactly the way NHL likes to keep hitting in the game. Save the head, but other ways you can go hard.

I think Seider could become the prime example for whole NHL.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

At the same time, the prospects are coming in with better conditioning, and they're also bigger and stronger. I don't see a reason to hold Veleno back, he needs to take the next step. Maybe Raymond, but I think Berggren is as big as he's going to be.

If anything, I think Veleno would benefit more from working with the Wings' trainer than GR, he'll be a serious wrecking ball then.

Yzerman will apply the over ripe model based on his history and background.

 

[GoBoltz56]

Yzerman will apply the over ripe model based on his history and background.

Based on what? Kucherov played 17 AHL games. Killorn 54 AHL games, Palat didn't even play 2 full AHL seasons, Johnson only 2 AHL seasons. He sure doesn't have a history of making prospects over-ripen in the minors.

 

[Henkka]

Based on what? Kucherov played 17 AHL games. Killorn 54 AHL games, Palat didn't even play 2 full AHL seasons, Johnson only 2 AHL seasons. He sure doesn't have a history of making prospects over-ripen in the minors.

Kucherov called up: 20-year-old
Cirelli called up: 20-year-old
Paquette called up: 21-year-old
Palat called up: 22-year-old
Johnson called up: 22-year old
Namestnikov called up: 22-year-old
Killorn called up: 23-year-old
Gourde called up: 26-year-old

Jonathan Drouin was put on NHL at youngest age, as 19-year-old, and he failed most bad.

Now they are calling up those lesser prospects, like:

Mathieu Joseph, 23-year-old
Alexander Volkov, 23-year-old (traded to Anaheim on expansion purposes)
Mitchell Stephens, 23-year-old (traded to Detroit, was replaced with 36-year old Bellemare, is that Ken Holland operating at Tampa? added also Corey Perry and washed up Bogosian)
Ross Colton called up: 24-year-old
Alex Barre-Boulet called up: 24-year old

It goes just like our prime era + low drafting.

At some point, when the prime era is starting to end, you have to find the stars again and it's getting harder and harder to find the new stars. You are getting lesser and lesser talent. Those guys coming from AHL are blooming later and later. Just like what happened at Detroit with our prospects. And at certain point, they are too weak at talent level to carry the team, anyhow, when the old stars get real old/retire.

You have to go to rebuild and draft the new stars.

Detroit did mostly a miracle by drafting the 2nd wave stars (Zetterberg and Datsyuk) to extend that 90's core success era.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Based on what? Kucherov played 17 AHL games. Killorn 54 AHL games, Palat didn't even play 2 full AHL seasons, Johnson only 2 AHL seasons. He sure doesn't have a history of making prospects over-ripen in the minors.

Drouin ring a bell? Watch.

 

[GoBoltz56]

Drouin ring a bell? Watch.

That's the only example you came up with to show a "history" of Yzerman making prospects fester in the lower levels and be over ripe? Drouin is a head-case who wasn't ready for pro hockey so he was sent back down. Then he only played a few AHL games.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

That's the only example you came up with to show a "history" of Yzerman making prospects fester in the lower levels and be over ripe? Drouin is a head-case who wasn't ready for pro hockey so he was sent back down. Then he only played a few AHL games.

Of course there was direct quotes from Verbeek specifically saying that they subscribe to the Ken Holland over ripening philosophy that they learned when he mentored them for their jobs.

 

[avssuc]

This fan base's obsession with firing people or torching careers is disturbing.

And we have that in common with every other group of fans, let's not pretend different.

 

[tabness]

 

[Henkka]

Yzerman didn't like when Verbeek jumped against Swedish National Team Head coach.

"pssst, hey Pat, just stop it, Sweden will be important for us in the future..."

 

[Pavels Dog]

Of course there was direct quotes from Verbeek specifically saying that they subscribe to the Ken Holland over ripening philosophy that they learned when he mentored them for their jobs.

If you oversimplify everything there are essentially two prospects strategies:

A: Rush them to NHL asap
B: Over-ripen

Most people would say A is not a great choice.

But the devil is in the details and there is a lot of wiggle room in either the A or B strategy.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

If you oversimplify everything there are essentially two prospects strategies:

A: Rush them to NHL asap
B: Over-ripen

Most people would say A is not a great choice.

But the devil is in the details and there is a lot of wiggle room in either the A or B strategy.

I agree. I just find it hilarious how people interpret a particular approach differently if it's Yzerman implementing it vs Holland. Then they tend to run with narratives with no basis in reality. In reality Yzerman was mentored by Holland and he tries to do things very much like Holland did. There's just not much difference in their respective approaches.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Yzerman will apply the over ripe model based on his history and background.

There is no “overripe” theory. It’s really simple, he wants guys to dominate in the AHL and not be handed jobs in the NHL or play 4th line minutes if they’re a top prospect. If they dominate in the AHL, they will find themselves in Detroit pretty quickly. But they have to force their way to Detroit, unlike KH, who just would never play the kids. “Kids are not the answer” remember that classic quote? Guys like any quiet and Tatar were stuck in Grand Rapids despite being better than guys like Cleary. That won’t happen with Yzerman and Verbeek, the best players will play

 

[Oddbob]

How is Ryan Martin still the asst. GM of the Griffins as OP states? Didn't he take another NHL job?