News Article: veleno has gotten stockier / stronger

[deca guard]

* thats what he was showing in gr last year = power skater with wheels

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[OgeeOgelthorpe]

* thats what he was showing in gr last year = power skater with wheels

The TLDR version of this is Blashill saying, "Temper your expectations because I'm going to play Nielsen, Fillpula and Helm before this kid."

 

[deca guard]

im saying veleno being underrated by most . and that hes going to be a work horse centerman just like the two others in the stable larkin and razz . 3 guys without elite offensive talent but that are all out hustling company men that are all also legit sized power skaters that can handle all opponant centers . yzergods amassing a bunch of talented speedy wingers to play with them and do the fancy stuff . fill in the roster with smart big bodied dmen and were marching ...

lots of whining this forum as usual , but im thinking this rebuild is going better than most think

 

[19 for president]

im saying veleno being underrated by most . and that hes going to be a work horse centerman just like the two others in the stable larkin and razz . 3 guys without elite offensive talent but that are all out hustling company men that are all also legit sized power skaters that can handle all opponant centers . yzergods amassing a bunch of talented speedy wingers to play with them and do the fancy stuff . fill in the roster with smart big bodied dmen and were marching ...

lots of whining this forum as usual , but im thinking this rebuild is going better than most think

I'm not against this model, but Stevie needs to get the D sorted if he is going to build like this, as most of our offensive will be scored in transition. If your D can't get your puck up to your speedy forwards in stride, then you get the offensive fail that was this season. Hoping he might be able to snap up a decent LD that would be exposed in the expansion draft. If we can add a top 4 LD & Seider to Hronek, I actually feel pretty good about next season.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

im saying veleno being underrated by most . and that hes going to be a work horse centerman just like the two others in the stable larkin and razz . 3 guys without elite offensive talent but that are all out hustling company men that are all also legit sized power skaters that can handle all opponant centers . yzergods amassing a bunch of talented speedy wingers to play with them and do the fancy stuff . fill in the roster with smart big bodied dmen and were marching ...

lots of whining this forum as usual , but im thinking this rebuild is going better than most think

I think it's going decent as well. I think the idea from some people is that if we don't have a 1D, 1C and starting goalie RIGHT NOW IN THE SYSTEM that it's a bad rebuild. These all take time to accrue, and not all of our pieces are going to hit the NHL at the exact same time.

There is a 4 year difference between MacKinnon being drafted and Makar being drafted. We might see that with Seider and whoever else is the for sure franchise cornerstone forward. It doesn't mean that the pieces we have now are trash if they aren't going to be all stars.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I would only add that I don't get the impression it's as intentional of "I'm going to get a bunch of workman centers and spunky and speedy wingers and make Smashville 2.0". I think he's taken what he thinks are the best possible available options and its kind of ended up where we've ended up. We have a few late round lotto tickets blow up and we get a 1C and this whole thing looks very different. Suddenly we're not relying on a 30 year old Larkin as our 60pt 1C; but now he's a savvy 2-way veteran manning our second line and getting easier matchups (which I hope ends up being his actual final position on the team).

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would only add that I don't get the impression it's as intentional of "I'm going to get a bunch of workman centers and spunky and speedy wingers and make Smashville 2.0". I think he's taken what he thinks are the best possible available options and its kind of ended up where we've ended up. We have a few late round lotto tickets blow up and we get a 1C and this whole thing looks very different. Suddenly we're not relying on a 30 year old Larkin as our 60pt 1C; but now he's a savvy 2-way veteran manning our second line and getting easier matchups (which I hope ends up being his actual final position on the team).

The difference between us and the Smashville model is that our winger prospects look to be a lot more high end. Filip Forsberg is a very good player but I see Raymond being better when in his prime. Berggren looks like a better player in his D+3 than Arvidsson did at the same age (he was a late bloomer) and the rest of the team was scoring by committee that revolved or revolves around Roman Josi, Matt Ellis and (at the time) PK Subban.

Nashville's big failing during this time was lacking ANY elite forward. Not just at center. They had 3 2nd lines but would have been better served turning some of that depth into a blockbuster player. Someone that's a true gamechanger. I think even though our most skilled forward prospects are wingers we're trending better than Nashville did before the Smashville era.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

The difference between us and the Smashville model is that our winger prospects look to be a lot more high end. Filip Forsberg is a very good player but I see Raymond being better when in his prime. Berggren looks like a better player in his D+3 than Arvidsson did at the same age (he was a late bloomer) and the rest of the team was scoring by committee that revolved or revolves around Roman Josi, Matt Ellis and (at the time) PK Subban.

Nashville's big failing during this time was lacking ANY elite forward. Not just at center. They had 3 2nd lines but would have been better served turning some of that depth into a blockbuster player. Someone that's a true gamechanger. I think even though our most skilled forward prospects are wingers we're trending better than Nashville did before the Smashville era.

I think Forsberg is actually quite elite. Nashville tried hard to address their #1 center, but the bets they made (Johansen and Duchene) have failed quite miserably. They also haven't been able to build a PP that can consistently be in the top half of the league.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think Forsberg is actually quite elite. Nashville tried hard to address their #1 center, but the bets they made (Johansen and Duchene) have failed quite miserably. They also haven't been able to build a PP that can consistently be in the top half of the league.

Forsberg is a 60 point winger. I'd take him on Detroit but he's in the bottom tier of 1st line wingers in the league, IMO.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Forsberg is a 60 point winger. I'd take him on Detroit but he's in the bottom tier of 1st line wingers in the league, IMO.

It seems like you are basing your argument on points and so I think it is incomplete. Forsberg is very much a 2nd tier, just below superstar quality winger IMO. He's never had a top C or a top PP to work with to boost his numbers. He's also been very good from a possession standpoint. I think he falls below the tier of Ovechkin, Kane, Marner, Stone and a few others.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It seems like you are basing your argument on points and so I think it is incomplete. Forsberg is very much a 2nd tier, just below superstar quality winger IMO. He's never had a top C or a top PP to work with to boost his numbers. He's also been very good from a possession standpoint. I think he falls below the tier of Ovechkin, Kane, Marner, Stone and a few others.

Below superstar tier winger (which are the top 20 in the league IMO) is 1st line winger. I don't know if I'd put him between 21 and 30, either.

 

[Run the Jewels]

If Yzerman kept him out of the NHL this year to protect him from the expansion draft - I do not know what the exact qualifications are - then that is understandable. Otherwise if he isn't in Detroit because he can't play center in the NHL on this particular roster is not a good sign. So for me: upside: 3rd line center; downside: Helmer (ie, 4C).

 

[Hen Kolland]

This thread title is what I tell myself when I stop eating a clean diet. Takes away the sting.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

The difference between us and the Smashville model is that our winger prospects look to be a lot more high end. Filip Forsberg is a very good player but I see Raymond being better when in his prime. Berggren looks like a better player in his D+3 than Arvidsson did at the same age (he was a late bloomer) and the rest of the team was scoring by committee that revolved or revolves around Roman Josi, Matt Ellis and (at the time) PK Subban.

Nashville's big failing during this time was lacking ANY elite forward. Not just at center. They had 3 2nd lines but would have been better served turning some of that depth into a blockbuster player. Someone that's a true gamechanger. I think even though our most skilled forward prospects are wingers we're trending better than Nashville did before the Smashville era.

Oh, I wasn't trying to make a 1:1 comparison. I wasn't comparing rosters. Just more that I think Yzerman is taking what he can and acquiring as much talent as possible and what may come will come at this point and not really thinking of a particular style or structure.

 

[RedWingzz]

If Yzerman kept him out of the NHL this year to protect him from the expansion draft - I do not know what the exact qualifications are - then that is understandable. Otherwise if he isn't in Detroit because he can't play center in the NHL on this particular roster is not a good sign. So for me: upside: 3rd line center; downside: Helmer (ie, 4C).

Veleno's hands are three times as good as Helms, and his shot is much better as well.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If Yzerman kept him out of the NHL this year to protect him from the expansion draft - I do not know what the exact qualifications are - then that is understandable. Otherwise if he isn't in Detroit because he can't play center in the NHL on this particular roster is not a good sign. So for me: upside: 3rd line center; downside: Helmer (ie, 4C).

Before determining the kid's fate as a future Helm level 4th liner, how about you give him a chance, eh? He's already displayed hands that are superior to Helm.

 

[Winger98]

I think Forsberg is actually quite elite. Nashville tried hard to address their #1 center, but the bets they made (Johansen and Duchene) have failed quite miserably. They also haven't been able to build a PP that can consistently be in the top half of the league.

And Turris. I think Johansen is fine, but I really don't care for Duchene and Turris as guys you try to win with as central pieces to your team.

 

[MBH]

Veleno isn't a hustler like Larkin.
He's more like Filppula than Larkin. Still a hustler. But lacks that extra bit of intensity of a Larkin.
If Veleno had that hustle, he'd already be in the NHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Veleno isn't a hustler like Larkin.
He's more like Filppula than Larkin. Still a hustler. But lacks that extra bit of intensity of a Larkin.
If Veleno had that hustle, he'd already be in the NHL.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

And Turris. I think Johansen is fine, but I really don't care for Duchene and Turris as guys you try to win with as central pieces to your team.

Yes, I definitely forgot Turris. I like Johansen too, but I really don't think he is a solid #1 center and certainly don't think he is earning his cap hit. I think he'd be better as in insulated #2 like a Krejci, Schenn or Kuznetsov type situation.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Before determining the kid's fate as a future Helm level 4th liner, how about you give him a chance, eh? He's already displayed hands that are superior to Helm.

Larkin was "Helm with hands"and got to the NHL quite a bit faster than Veleno. The fact it takes a guy a while to actually make it to the NHL is generally not a good sign. Now if he was purposely held back due to the expansion draft, that is a mark in his favor.

By the way, the comparison to Helm was more position (4C), not declaring him to be an exact replica.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Larkin was "Helm with hands"and got to the NHL quite a bit faster than Veleno. The fact it takes a guy a while to actually make it to the NHL is generally not a good sign. Now if he was purposely held back due to the expansion draft, that is a mark in his favor.

By the way, the comparison to Helm was more position (4C), not declaring him to be an exact replica.

Being a late bloomer isn't a bad thing. It's more important that he is blooming.

And he was a 30th overall pick who is going to make his NHL debut for a cup of coffee in his D+3. It's not like we're talking a top 5 pick who can't crack this shit lineup. There was no need to rush him so we didn't rush him.

 

[deca guard]

I would only add that I don't get the impression it's as intentional of "I'm going to get a bunch of workman centers and spunky and speedy wingers and make Smashville 2.0". I think he's taken what he thinks are the best possible available options and its kind of ended up where we've ended up. We have a few late round lotto tickets blow up and we get a 1C and this whole thing looks very different. Suddenly we're not relying on a 30 year old Larkin as our 60pt 1C; but now he's a savvy 2-way veteran manning our second line and getting easier matchups (which I hope ends up being his actual final position on the team).

my angle is 19 saw larks-razz-jv and thought ' ive got a bunch of mule team centers so look to pick off guys like raymond , fabbri , vrana to do the fancy stuff . and dont worry about a super talented 1C , we will get our play making from the wing ' . INNOVATION ! and now im really gung ho on the mule team centers , hoping to see more mule centers drafted or traded for . plus we have zadina and berggren as some more play making wingers . and a big non play making winger as is mantha dont fit this design , he needs a backstrom type center to ' bake him pizza's ' . so 19 traded him

 

[Henkka]

Larkin was "Helm with hands"and got to the NHL quite a bit faster than Veleno. The fact it takes a guy a while to actually make it to the NHL is generally not a good sign. Now if he was purposely held back due to the expansion draft, that is a mark in his favor.

Veleno in NHL or not is a non-factor for expansion draft. He would have been 2nd year pro (safe from expansion) even if debuting in NHL at last season.

 

[Oddbob]

I think Forsberg is actually quite elite. Nashville tried hard to address their #1 center, but the bets they made (Johansen and Duchene) have failed quite miserably. They also haven't been able to build a PP that can consistently be in the top half of the league.

Forsberg is very good, but he is definitely not elite. 64 pts and 63 pts as your highest pt totals are not elite numbers.