Movies: Vegan 2019 - The Film

[Shareefruck]

Well, we still murder animals (and I don't think murdering other humans is instinctual necessarily). Rape is different and isn't necessary for survival, eating is and our bodies are designed to consume meat. The fact that vegans need to be more diligent about what they consume in order to insure that they're getting a healthy diet suggests this.

Just wanted to zero in on this defense. To be fair, if we're thinking very primitively, rape is a means to procreate just as killing and eating animals is a means for survival (yet in both cases, are not the only way to do it), and biologically, our need and desire to procreate isn't much different from our need for survival-- Both are programmed into us and hypothetically help us survive. The point still stands-- the fact that something is natural, instinctive, and biologically designed is not a good reason at all to believe that it's right. These are appeal to nature fallacies that arguments in favor of eating meat should probably try to avoid if they want to be viewed as reasonable (and I think that better arguments for meat consumption exist anyways).

Frankly, I have a much easier time seeing validity in the "It is absolutely immoral and nothing changes that fact, but is too impractical to expect or demand-- we should accept that we don't currently have the luxury of being truly moral beings (just as there are extreme circumstances in which we wouldn't have the luxury of avoiding the murder of humans, as hard as it is to imagine), and it's something that we should only consider once conditions change and it becomes more realistic" argument than the "it isn't immoral or wrong at all and nobody should feel bad about it or think that it's unfortunate" argument. Personally, I don't see how the latter can be reasonably argued.

 

[johnjm22]

I wouldn't say that we're "designed" to eat meat. Practically all other primates, including those biologically closest to us, are plant eaters. Eating meat is just the most efficient means of sustenance and early Man was smart enough to figure that out. Human intelligence compels us to do things that are against our nature in an effort to be more efficient. For example, it's not natural for us to fly, but we figured out a way because it's the most efficient way to travel long distances. Not being natural isn't an argument to stop flying, though, just as it's not an argument to stop eating meat (not that I've seen anyone here make that argument).



That someone was a good spin doctor. It might not change the answer, but it'd be fairer and more accurate to ask "do you want your stomach to be a graveyard or a compost heap?"

Chimpanzees, which are our closest relatives, do eat meat. Not much, but it's part of their diet.

We've been eating meat for millions of years. There's evidence that consuming meat spurred the evolution of our larger brains. Considering that animal products are some of the richest sources of some of the nutrients we need, I think saying we're "designed" to eat meat is probably accurate. We are in fact omnivores.

 

[chicagoskycam]

And you were equating a vegan diet with protein deficiency


This is what a vegan diet looks like when it's done properly:

C’mon man. Its common knowledge Vegans absolutely have to supplement vitamins and ensure adequate protein. Every Vegan knows this!

As far as your video, for some people I believe it they can get there, We don’t know if the guy in your video is actually Vegan though. That’s one sided nonsense. The only thing is a study with a large group of Vegans vs. healthy meat eaters.

 

[Neutrinos]

C’mon man. Its common knowledge Vegans absolutely have to supplement vitamins and ensure adequate protein. Every Vegan knows this!

for some people I believe it. We don’t know if the guy in your video is actually Vegan though. That’s one sided nonsense. The only thing is a study with a large group of Vegans vs. healthy meat eaters.

He's a vegan, but that's irrelevant anyways. The point of the video was to show what a healthy vegan diet looks like

 

[chicagoskycam]

He's a vegan, but that's irrelevant anyways. The point of the video was to show what a healthy vegan diet looks like

I think we want to talk about the majority. The fact is it’s much more difficult to get the proper nutrients.

 

[RandV]

C’mon man. Its common knowledge Vegans absolutely have to supplement vitamins and ensure adequate protein. Every Vegan knows this!

As far as your video, for some people I believe it they can get there, We don’t know if the guy in your video is actually Vegan though. That’s one sided nonsense. The only thing is a study with a large group of Vegans vs. healthy meat eaters.

But it's not really worth mentioning because it isn't that hard to get adequate protein. Some of the more obscure vitamins sure, but unless you're an idiot and think going vegan means you just eat lettuce or something (though it's more often restaurants that do this with token vegan options) getting your protein isn't hard. Plus gaining weight or not still comes down to mostly a matter of calorie intake.

It's worth noting though while there's probably nothing wrong with the youtube guy posted here often these 'social media star' vegans end up being a bit fraudulent because they're pushing for an extreme build and which looks good on camera but requires a borderline eating disorder to achieve and then their hair starts falling out or something so the doctor says they need to start eating better including some meat.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind though on whether it's feasible or not is that Buddhist monks have been eating vegan in East Asia for a good 2000 years or so.

 

[Osprey]

Chimpanzees, which are our closest relatives, do eat meat. Not much, but it's part of their diet.

We've been eating meat for millions of years. There's evidence that consuming meat spurred the evolution of our larger brains. Considering that animal products are some of the richest sources of some of the nutrients we need, I think saying we're "designed" to eat meat is probably accurate. We are in fact omnivores.

Those are all good points.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind though on whether it's feasible or not is that Buddhist monks have been eating vegan in East Asia for a good 2000 years or so.

I don't think that anyone questions the feasibility of eating vegan if the plan is to be as inactive as Buddhist monks. The more relevant issue seems to be the feasibility and ease of supporting an average Western lifestyle that includes a lot more activity (and not necessarily being "active," but just having the energy to get through an average work or school day, get a few other things done, play with the kids, etc.).

 

[RayP]

He's a vegan, but that's irrelevant anyways. The point of the video was to show what a healthy vegan diet looks like

And exactly what % of vegans would you estimate look and live that way?

 

[chicagoskycam]

[QUOTE="RandV, post: 167640781, member: 11972"]/But it's not really worth mentioning because it isn't that hard to get adequate protein. Some of the more obscure vitamins sure, but unless you're an idiot and think going vegan means you just eat lettuce or something (though it's more often restaurants that do this with token vegan options) getting your protein isn't hard. Plus gaining weight or not still comes down to mostly a matter of calorie intake.

It's worth noting though while there's probably nothing wrong with the youtube guy posted here often these 'social media star' vegans end up being a bit fraudulent because they're pushing for an extreme build and which looks good on camera but requires a borderline eating disorder to achieve and then their hair starts falling out or something so the doctor says they need to start eating better including some meat.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind though on whether it's feasible or not is that Buddhist monks have been eating vegan in East Asia for a good 2000 years or so.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is hard for some Vegans to get adequate protein, that's the point. I know many Vegans and the protein issue is something they always focus on. Also, this discussion evolved not from adult Vegans but in regards to children on a Vegas diet. Obscure vitamins? Do you mean like B12, Vitamin D? These are not obscure and essential to everyone,
Vit D is more of an issue in northern parts of the U.S. during winter.

 

[Neutrinos]

And exactly what % of vegans would you estimate look and live that way?

It's not about what he looks like, or how many vegans live that way

The point of the video was to show how people should be eating on a vegan diet

 

[RandV]

[QUOTE="RandV, post: 167640781, member: 11972"]/But it's not really worth mentioning because it isn't that hard to get adequate protein. Some of the more obscure vitamins sure, but unless you're an idiot and think going vegan means you just eat lettuce or something (though it's more often restaurants that do this with token vegan options) getting your protein isn't hard. Plus gaining weight or not still comes down to mostly a matter of calorie intake.

It's worth noting though while there's probably nothing wrong with the youtube guy posted here often these 'social media star' vegans end up being a bit fraudulent because they're pushing for an extreme build and which looks good on camera but requires a borderline eating disorder to achieve and then their hair starts falling out or something so the doctor says they need to start eating better including some meat.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind though on whether it's feasible or not is that Buddhist monks have been eating vegan in East Asia for a good 2000 years or so.

Yes, it is hard for some Vegans to get adequate protein, that's the point. I know many Vegans and the protein issue is something they always focus on. Also, this discussion evolved not from adult Vegans but in regards to children on a Vegas diet. Obscure vitamins? Do you mean like B12, Vitamin D? These are not obscure and essential to everyone,
Vit D is more of an issue in northern parts of the U.S. during winter.[/QUOTE]

Ah, to be fair I really know barely anything about nutrition, I've just been house trained for 10 years, splitting dinner cooking duties 5 years vegetarian and then 5 years vegan, and she does know all about nutrition and I hear all about it if my dinner isn't up to par. In my experience if you were simply to take the standard North American diet and simply remove meat out of it, then yes that would be horribly protein deficient. But if you drop the NA convention and do some proper cooking, in my experience of basically only eating meat when we eat out, maybe once a month for 10 years running now, it's really not hard at all to get enough protein.

 

[Neutrinos]

Times they are a changin'