Value of: Vatanen to CAR

[newsportsfan123]

And Anttoni Honka leads all defensemen on this team with 16 points so by the logic you apply to Gardiner and Fleury, he must be their "best defensemen", right?

What you should come to HFBoards for is to learn that "points" alone aren't a measure of how good a defenseman is or is not.

And what does Gardiner, who is 29, have to do with "RBA not wanting to play his young guys" (which I've proven false to you and you keep ignoring facts), which is what this discussion is about.

If you simply watch the game you can see the impact Gardiner has had offensively.. Fleury has also played a great two-way game. You don’t need analytics to see this. I’m not using points alone, Gardiner has made amazing defensive plays while making bad ones, they have definitely been the best dman these last games.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If you simply watch the game you can see the impact Gardiner has had offensively.. Fleury has also played a great two-way game. You don’t need analytics to see this. I’m not using points alone, Gardiner has made amazing defensive plays while making bad ones, they have definitely been the best dman these last games.

Ok, I'm not sure where you are going with this so let me try to figure it out.

Gardiner struggled early on in the season (similar to how Dougie struggled last year) and his TOI was down because of it. His advanced "stats" were pretty good, but if you "watch the game" you could see that he was not playing well. I think we all agree on that. Now he's playing better and he's averaging almost 20 min / game in his last 8 games.

Fleury has been better (but not "great two-way"). He still struggles badly at zone exits and his play with the puck is probably the weakest among Canes defensemen, along with Edmundson. If you "watch the games", you must clearly see that, right? Because it's pretty obvious. He'll have moments of "wow, he looks good" and moments of "man, he looks like a 3rd pairing depth defensemen. Even so, if you accept he's playing better, he's getting more minutes now as well (averaging over 15 / game during that same stretch).

So the statement is Gardiner and Fleury are playing better hockey right now. If we accept that, then it makes sense that Rod is rewarding them with more minutes also, which he is so I'm not sure what problem you are seeing.

Secondly, this all stemmed from your statement "Rod hates playing young guys".
1) What does Gardiner have to do with that and why bring him up?
2) Facts show that Rod IS playing guys younger than Fleury, the same age as Fleury and 1 year older than Fleury.

So what is it you are trying to argue here, because you are going in circles and making no sense.

 

[newsportsfan123]

Ok, I'm not sure where you are going with this so let me try to figure it out.

Gardiner struggled early on in the season (similar to how Dougie struggled last year) and his TOI was down because of it. His advanced "stats" were pretty good, but if you "watch the game" you could see that he was not playing well. I think we all agree on that. Now he's playing better and he's averaging almost 20 min / game in his last 8 games.

Fleury has been better (but not "great two-way"). He still struggles badly at zone exits and his play with the puck is probably the weakest among Canes defensemen, along with Edmundson. If you "watch the games", you must clearly see that, right? Because it's pretty obvious. He'll have moments of "wow, he looks good" and moments of "man, he looks like a 3rd pairing depth defensemen. Even so, if you accept he's playing better, he's getting more minutes now as well (averaging over 15 / game during that same stretch).

So the statement is Gardiner and Fleury are playing better hockey right now. If we accept that, then it makes sense that Rod is rewarding them with more minutes also, which he is so I'm not sure what problem you are seeing.

Secondly, this all stemmed from your statement "Rod hates playing young guys".
1) What does Gardiner have to do with that and why bring him up?
2) Facts show that Rod IS playing guys younger than Fleury, the same age as Fleury and 1 year older than Fleury.

So what is it you are trying to argue here, because you are going in circles and making no sense.

They got more minutes because of Hamiltons injury, but I don’t get the thing about Fleury being bad in his zone. He’d rather play Staal over Aho.. RBA is hard for grindere

 

[StormCast]

He’s not even comparable to Saarela.. watch his impact in charlotte,

Since you are the guy using simplistic point totals as a comparison, I'd suggest you check out their stat lines. Bottom line? Again the bigger point is how he compares to other current prospects. A projected NHL middle six winger is just not untouchable, your pretzel logic notwithstanding.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

They got more minutes because of Hamiltons injury, but I don’t get the thing about Fleury being bad in his zone. He’d rather play Staal over Aho.. RBA is hard for grindere

Per NHL.com:

TOI/GP: Aho 19:18,Staal 18:02.
ES TOI/GP: Aho 14:42, Staal 14:24

If your going to keep making stuff up, at least do a little bit of fact checking first.

Anyhow, before your comment was "Rod hates playing young guys". Now it's "RBA likes grinders". (even though Brock McGinn and Jordan Martinook...the very definition of grinders are 11th and 13th among forwards in ES TOI/GP. You can't keep your narrative's straight.

Anyhow, this has gotten way off track from the subject so I'll stop. You don't think Kuokkanen should be moved, which is fine. I think it's not a big deal if they choose to move him. So be it.

 

[mikeyfan]

you don't base it on games played you base it on the whole season. Games missed would also go into the equation as it would be projected he would miss those games too.

 

[GoCanes2015]

I think the Canes need to do this, to sweeten the Eichel to the Canes trade offer made in the other post. Surely BUF would take all those CAR assets if they ALSO add Vatenen to it? I mean, c'mon - they have to, right?

 

[newsportsfan123]

Per NHL.com:

TOI/GP: Aho 19:18,Staal 18:02.
ES TOI/GP: Aho 14:42, Staal 14:24

If your going to keep making stuff up, at least do a little bit of fact checking first.

Anyhow, before your comment was "Rod hates playing young guys". Now it's "RBA likes grinders". (even though Brock McGinn and Jordan Martinook...the very definition of grinders are 11th and 13th among forwards in ES TOI/GP. You can't keep your narrative's straight.

Anyhow, this has gotten way off track from the subject so I'll stop. You don't think Kuokkanen should be moved, which is fine. I think it's not a big deal if they choose to move him. So be it.

i misworded it.. what i’m saying is RBA cannot make a smart line pair at all.. just put dzingel-haula-necas back together, he prefers to put mcginn (grinder) alongside haula and dzingel and necas on the 4th line. jordan staal is not a 2c he’s better off being the 4C for carolina. haula 2c and wally 3c..

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Dzingel - Haula - Necas lost its early season magic. Brind'Amour went right to it after Haula returned and outside of that Toronto game, it was atrocious. Since Christmas, the three together have put up a ~26% HDCF% and a ~30 xGF%.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Dzingel - Haula - Necas lost its early season magic. Brind'Amour went right to it after Haula returned and outside of that Toronto game, it was atrocious. Since Christmas, the three together have put up a ~26% HDCF% and a ~30 xGF%.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Don't bother BDC. He/she keeps making statements that are incorrect, then when proven incorrect, moves on to another narrative. Facts don't seem to matter, only the narrative does.

 

[StormCast]

Don't bother BDC. He/she keeps making statements that are incorrect, then when proven incorrect, moves on to another narrative. Facts don't seem to matter, only the narrative does.

True and that poster seems totally woke to Kuokk for some odd reason.