Value of: Vatanen to CAR

[spockBokk]

So, going off of LeBrun's speculation as well as some others, it seems like a realistic asking price for Vatanen as a rental starts with a 2nd rd pick. Do the following assets from a CAR perspective get anything done?

-2020 NYR 2nd (likely between 32-42OA) + 2020 BUF 3rd

or

-2020 CAR 2nd + Janne Kuokkanen

Click to read more...

 

[mikeyfan]

What would you say to Buffalo's 3rd and TVR for Vatanen. Vatanen is a career minus player, never having a plus season, and that is a little concerning to me.

 

[TBF1972]

What would you say to Buffalo's 3rd and TVR for Vatanen. Vatanen is a career minus player, never having a plus season, and that is a little concerning to me.

why do you trade for him, if you don't think he is any good?

nj would not take the offer of BUF 3rd and TVR. TVR would most likely not be resigned by NJ and this season is already lost. so you basically offer a third for NJ most consistent D this season. yawn.

 

[spockBokk]

What would you say to Buffalo's 3rd and TVR for Vatanen. Vatanen is a career minus player, never having a plus season, and that is a little concerning to me.

The Devils would laugh and hang up.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Looks realistic. I'm more and more skeptical that a team in the Vatanen market gives up a 1st, at least an unconditional one. A 2nd from a team solidly outside of the playoffs should be a competitive centerpiece.

 

[Pongs21]

Looks realistic. I'm more and more skeptical that a team in the Vatanen market gives up a 1st, at least an unconditional one. A 2nd from a team solidly outside of the playoffs should be a competitive centerpiece.

how about a conditional 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he resigns or if WPG makes the playoffs) and Logan Stanley?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

how about a conditional 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he resigns or if WPG makes the playoffs) and Logan Stanley?

NYR's 2nd is currently 40OA. If Winnipeg makes the playoffs, it's at best 47OA. Unless NJ prioritizes Stanley or has reservations about dealing Vatanen in division, I think the OP beats that offer.

 

[spockBokk]

NYR's 2nd is currently 40OA. If Winnipeg makes the playoffs, it's at best 47OA. Unless NJ prioritizes Stanley or has reservations about dealing Vatanen in division, I think the OP beats that offer.

Right, if the main piece is indeed a 2nd, CAR has a unique advantage over other playoff hopefuls in that they currently own that NYR 2nd round pick that is likely the highest possible 2nd that NJD may be offered.

Edit-it would be ironic, I think, if CAR were to use one of the 2nds they received in the Adam Fox trade to acquire a D similar to Adam Fox in Vatanen, and they also used the other 2nd from the Fox trade to trade for two other picks, where one of which was used to draft, in the 3rd round, Anttoni Honka, another player similar to Adam Fox. CAR seems to really, really like offensive RD that happen to be ~5'10" in size.

 

[devils29]

The price for Vatanen should Ben a 1st plus a conditional 3rd if the team resigns him or wins a playoff series. He’s a 40 Point RHD on a decent contract and he has a “career minus” of like 10... so stop trying to use that to lower the price. Anything less i hope the devils just try to re sign. Would rather lose him to UFA than get a 2nd or some useless 7D and a 3rd

 

[JimtheMagicalHamster]

What would you say to Buffalo's 3rd and TVR for Vatanen. Vatanen is a career minus player, never having a plus season, and that is a little concerning to me.

He has more seasons (5) with a plus +/- than with a minus one (3).

 

[Mildan]

I think Rangers 2nd that turns into Carolinas first if Carolina gets through first two rounds.

 

[spockBokk]

The price for Vatanen should Ben a 1st plus a conditional 3rd if the team resigns him or wins a playoff series. He’s a 40 Point RHD on a decent contract and he has a “career minus” of like 10... so stop trying to use that to lower the price. Anything less i hope the devils just try to re sign. Would rather lose him to UFA than get a 2nd or some useless 7D and a 3rd

Precedent says the price starts lower than a 1st for rental D, but we’ll see I suppose. IMO, there’s not any team that will pay a 1st round pick to acquire a rental D.

And by the way, Vatanen has a career high of 38pts. He’s never hit 40pts and only topped 30pts twice. To call him a 40pt D is a bit disingenuous.

 

[devils29]

Precedent says the price starts lower than a 1st for rental D, but we’ll see I suppose. IMO, there’s not any team that will pay a 1st round pick to acquire a rental D.

And by the way, Vatanen has a career high of 38pts. He’s never hit 40pts and only topped 30pts twice. To call him a 40pt D is a bit disingenuous.

Carolina is in the division and has 2 firsts. They don’t get Vatanen without giving one up. Also he’s on pace for 40 points this year on this trash devils team so he’s playing amazingly this year

 

[Chrispy]

If either 1st is made available, it should net a better return than a rental Vatanen.

 

[spockBokk]

Carolina is in the division and has 2 firsts. They don’t get Vatanen without giving one up. Also he’s on pace for 40 points this year on this trash devils team so he’s playing amazingly this year

He’s still NOT a 40pt D.

Rental D do NOT return 1st round picks unless their name is Erik Karlsson, etc.

Who gives a shit if it’s in division? The Devils are in a position where, in my view, they should be taking the absolute best return they can get.

 

[devils29]

He’s still NOT a 40pt D.

Rental D do NOT return 1st round picks unless their name is Erik Karlsson, etc.

Who gives a **** if it’s in division? The Devils are in a position where, in my view, they should be taking the absolute best return they can get.

If you don’t think trading in division matters then it should obvious you don’t fully understand NHL trades. Your comment is extremely ironic as you mention Erik Karlsson... the guy who was traded with a stipulation that he was traded back to even the sameness conference it would be at the cost of San Jose’s first... also Vatanen is on pace for his best year yet. You can’t throw that out and say “WELL HES NEVER DONE IT BEFORE!” It doesn’t matter he’s doing it now... and no they shouldn’t be just getting rid of everyone for pennies on the dollar. I’d much rather lose Vatanen for nothing trying to re sign him then trade him for an undwheleming return...

 

[Chan790]

Carolina is in the division and has 2 firsts. They don’t get Vatanen without giving one up. Also he’s on pace for 40 points this year on this trash devils team so he’s playing amazingly this year

Then NJ should wait and call Carolina closer to the TDL when they don't have a better offer than the NYR 2nd.

 

[mikeyfan]

The Devils would laugh and hang up.

Why? A rental replacing a rental plus the 3rd from Buffalo. If you think it needs to be sweetened, then say if the Canes make the playoffs and JVR does not resign, NJ gets the lower of the 2 Canes 2nd round pick. (We would probably retain NYR 2nd and give up ours) If the Canes miss the playoffs NJ gets only the Buffalo 3rd. I can't see giving up two young prospects for a Dman we probably won't keep.

 

[WreckingCrew]

If you don’t think trading in division matters then it should obvious you don’t fully understand NHL trades. Your comment is extremely ironic as you mention Erik Karlsson... the guy who was traded with a stipulation that he was traded back to even the sameness conference it would be at the cost of San Jose’s first... also Vatanen is on pace for his best year yet. You can’t throw that out and say “WELL HES NEVER DONE IT BEFORE!” It doesn’t matter he’s doing it now... and no they shouldn’t be just getting rid of everyone for pennies on the dollar. I’d much rather lose Vatanen for nothing trying to re sign him then trade him for an undwheleming return...

Trading in the division ONLY matters for players with term (not rental/pending UFAs) OR if two teams are battling each other for a playoff spot (only CAR is in this case)...so that should have ZERO bearing on the asking price. Also, just because "Carolina has two 1sts" doesn't automatically they owe you one for a rental player. Right now, unless some other team offers a 1st, our 2nd from NYR is probably the highest 2nd rounder available. Obviously Vatanen would be a great placeholder for the year while Hamilton heals up, and can walk to UFA after when we get Doogie back, but a 1st is pretty steep (as others have said) for a <40 pt d-man who has surpassed 10G only once

 

[BB88]

Vats with a 2nd would be a fantastic add by any team.

 

[mikeyfan]

If you don’t think trading in division matters then it should obvious you don’t fully understand NHL trades. Your comment is extremely ironic as you mention Erik Karlsson... the guy who was traded with a stipulation that he was traded back to even the sameness conference it would be at the cost of San Jose’s first... also Vatanen is on pace for his best year yet. You can’t throw that out and say “WELL HES NEVER DONE IT BEFORE!” It doesn’t matter he’s doing it now... and no they shouldn’t be just getting rid of everyone for pennies on the dollar. I’d much rather lose Vatanen for nothing trying to re sign him then trade him for an undwheleming return...

What is he doing now? 5 Goals, 18 Assist = 23 points and he is a minus 12 I wouldn't call that "Doing it now"

 

[devils29]

Trading in the division ONLY matters for players with term (not rental/pending UFAs) OR if two teams are battling each other for a playoff spot (only CAR is in this case)...so that should have ZERO bearing on the asking price. Also, just because "Carolina has two 1sts" doesn't automatically they owe you one for a rental player. Right now, unless some other team offers a 1st, our 2nd from NYR is probably the highest 2nd rounder available. Obviously Vatanen would be a great placeholder for the year while Hamilton heals up, and can walk to UFA after when we get Doogie back, but a 1st is pretty steep (as others have said) for a <40 pt d-man who has surpassed 10G only once

I stopped reading after your first sentence because Karlsson was traded as someone with 1 year left on his deal

 

[devils29]

What is he doing now? 5 Goals, 18 Assist = 23 points and he is a minus 12 I wouldn't call that "Doing it now"

Hes on pace for 40 points... that’s what we were talking about... how is this hard to understand.

 

[spockBokk]

I stopped reading after your first sentence because Karlsson was traded as someone with 1 year left on his deal

Vatanen is a decent 2nd pair defenseman. Those rental types return 2nd picks come deadline time. Teams have learned their lesson when it comes to that. Only 1 1st round pick has been traded i. The last 4 years for a rental D. Here’s an article perhaps you should read up on as it contains opinions much more informed than you or me:


Buyer’s guide: What could the trade market for the Devils’ Sami Vatanen look like?
Buyer's guide: What could the trade market for the Devils'...

Cliff Notes-Expect the main piece of a Vatanen trade to begin with a 2nd...

 

[Blackjack]

What's the point in badgering Devils fans that a 2nd should be enough? Obviously we don't feel that way. If you end up getting Vatanen for a 2nd go ahead and bump this thread and give us all the smug, sarcastic shit you can. Should be a good time for you guys.

How about go hound Anaheim fans about how LeBrun only thinks he's worth a 3rd round pick.